Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ProRes 4:4:4 possible?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Thanks for your insight, Barry. It's always illuminating reading your posts.

    Comment


    • #17
      Thanks Barry - very helpful

      Comment


      • #18
        Barry tells it like it is. For a lot of BMC users, ProRes 422 1080p in log is going to be a great option for a majority of the shots, especially considering that you can fit about 4-5x the footage in the same storage space. A few 256GB SSD's should be enough to cover a half day or more of shooting, which is very enticing, whilst still giving you close to the same dynamic range (though less accurately) as the raw files.

        You could grab two 256GB SSDs and rotate them with plenty of time in between to transfer. Have one or two backup drives connected to be backing up during the shoot.

        And in the end, 10-bit ProRes 422 at 122mbps (as per this table) is far better than 8-bit compressed H.264 at 32mbps from a DSLR. Four times the colour accuracy with one quarter of the compression and no moiré. Gimme!
        Last edited by nickjbedford; 04-30-2012, 09:17 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          if you consider that a 10-bit log Cineon scan of approx 13.5 stops will 'unfold' into about 14-bits linear (that was what Kodak ingrained in me), then 12-bits linear saved as a 10-bit log file should easily contain all the dynamic range of the 13 stop RAW.

          but compressed to be visually lossless.

          which is very cool in my eyes.
          Last edited by electricpig; 05-01-2012, 01:33 AM.
          ---


          T h e E l e c t r i c P i g L t d .
          ~ bespoke digital tailoring ~
          www.electricpig.net

          +44 7711 582849

          http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0175330/?ref_=fn_al_nm_2

          Comment


          • #20
            Barry, I'd swear I've learn more from your posts in the last couple of years than I ever got from my three years of uni.

            As always a BIG thank you for your insights, and the openness with which you share them. My copies of your sound and lighting DVDs just arrived in the post the other week. So once my current shoot is finished, I'm looking forward to getting into them.

            Comment


            • #21
              Barry, that was a great read for me. Thank you. I just want to say "Thank you!!" to all (Barry, John, electricpig, and many others) who share so much knowledge in this forum.

              Comment


              • #22
                Glad to be of assistance, thanks for the kind words, and thanks to everyone else here who shares their knowledge and freely gives of their time, it helps to build us all up!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Thankyou for the appreciation.
                  It's good to share, especially with a camera that produces an image so close to, and with a similar character to something I've been working with for so long.
                  I love how this camera reaches across my 2 worlds, which up to now have been both about motion, but far apart in terms of the language they talk, ie digital video and digital film.

                  The HVX was my first ever video camera, and thanks to DVXuser I read, learnt and foumd a new world that I love to this day thanks to the AF101.
                  It's great to give something back to the community in return from my main profession.
                  ---


                  T h e E l e c t r i c P i g L t d .
                  ~ bespoke digital tailoring ~
                  www.electricpig.net

                  +44 7711 582849

                  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0175330/?ref_=fn_al_nm_2

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Great explanation Barry. I knew there was a reason I singled you out to answer that question!

                    Look forward to having this camera in my hands.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Great explanation Barry. I knew there was a reason I singled you out to answer that question!

                      Look forward to having this camera in my hands.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        How does the PMW-F3 manage to get 4:4:4 out via 3G-SDI then?

                        Doesn't the sensor have 3MP only?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          You can mark everything as 4:4:4- it's just a question if there is real 4:4:4 data there. You can always upconvert chroma, like you can upscale SD footage. Of course it won't be real 4:4:4, but by good processing you can gain something. This is similar to what whole Bayern pattern is about- store less data to get more
                          F3 has 3.4MP sensor, so it's more than full HD (2.1MP)- image is oversampled, so after debayering it can deliver real 4:4:4 or probably something between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 (not sure if it can do real 4:4:4). Same story is with Alexa.
                          Last edited by Andrew_HD; 09-01-2012, 09:30 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Great post Barry! So let's take a camera like the AF100 with its 12Mp sensor, will it deliver true 4:2:2 (on the SDI) thanks to more pixels to work with? How about Alexas sensor, does it deliver true 4:4:4?
                            Last edited by Osslund; 09-01-2012, 10:11 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Osslund View Post
                              So let's take a camera like the AF100 with its 12Mp sensor, will it deliver true 4:2:2 (on the SDI) thanks to more pixels to work with?
                              Yes, it does appear to (meaning, I've shot a color Wringer chart with it and it's much more detailed on red/blue circles on the SDI, than it is on the onboard recording).

                              How about Alexas sensor, does it deliver true 4:4:4?
                              It can't deliver a true sampled 4:4:4 at its stated resolution, no. It does output 4:4:4, but presumably it must be doing some sort of uprezzing. It doesn't have the pixels to actually sample each and every color at its 2880 res, or even at 1920 res. It could deliver 4:4:4 at 1440 res, which is basically a version of HD resolution.

                              4:4:4 means that it is encoded with an individual value for green, red, and blue for each pixel, but it does not mean that there was an individual sample taken for each red, green, and blue pixel. That's what Andrew_HD is saying in the post above yours. You could encode VHS into a 4:4:4 codec, but don't expect there to be actually 4:4:4's worth of data in it!

                              The only practical ways to get actual 4:4:4 are with three chips (because each chip samples an individual color at every point) or using massive oversampling such as Canon's C300 sensor. It's a 4k chip that only creates 1080p video, so there's an individual red, individual blue, and (2) individual green pixels that are sampled for every dot in the output frame. 3840 pixels across, 2160 pixels down, that means there's a 2x2 matrix for every destination pixel, which means there's an individual red, green, and blue sample for every pixel, and that's pretty much the definition of 4:4:4's worth of data.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thanks Barry. Excellent explanation as always.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X