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Discussing the new Compressed DNG RAW Files

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  • Discussing the new Compressed DNG RAW Files

    Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

    On both new cameras you will be getting compressed RAW files. DNG 1.4 is what it's called.

    The files are about 1/3 the size of the ones from the original BMCC.

    According to John Brawley, Black Magic has told him the files from both Pocket and Production models will be 12 bit raw.

    More info from adobe:
    http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe...ec_1.4.0.0.pdf

    According to video below, the compressed RAW between the two new cameras is a little different though:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_7MxbeW8s


    A lot of good information in posts from other members below.
    Last edited by faran saberi; 04-10-2013, 08:14 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by faran saberi View Post

    This one I need confirmation on - but apparently it's 8-bit raw, not 12-bit like the original BMCC.

    More info from adobe:
    http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe...ec_1.4.0.0.pdf
    What makes you assume it's 8bit though? Has blackmagic confirmed that the compression is indeed the same one you link to?

    It's interesting if that turns out to be the case, you have 10bit ProRes already, it'd be nice to at least have the same bit depth with the compressed DNGs.

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    • #3
      This is not what BMD are telling me. Both iterations of compressed RAW will be 12 BIT.

      JB.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
        This is not what BMD are telling me. Both iterations of compressed RAW will be 12 BIT.

        JB.
        Thanks John! Sounds like good news to me : )

        Looking forward to seeing some footage from the pocket cam soon, hint hint.

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        • #5
          Hi John,I hop you will send us footage soon... to check the workflow...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
            This is not what BMD are telling me. Both iterations of compressed RAW will be 12 BIT.

            JB.
            The comments about DNG being based on 8 bit JPEG are simply not true :-

            http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe...ec_1.4.0.0.pdf


            BitsPerSample
            Supported values are from 8 to 32 bits/sample. The depth must be the same for each sample if SamplesPerPixel is not equal to 1. If BitsPerSample is not equal to 8 or 16 or 32, then the bits must be packed into bytes using the TIFF default FillOrder of 1 (big-endian), even if the TIFF file itself uses little-endian byte order.


            Sure there are a myriad of options around how DNG is applied and used but can't see why BMD would bother going with the absolute minimum option in regard to bit depth.
            Lotsa Zeon thingos with thousands of cute cores...enough is never enough

            www.andrewdeme.com
            http://www.youtube.com/andrewdeme
            www.facebook.com/andrewdeme
            http://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewdeme

            (I reserve the right to edit, modify or delete any content I create anywhere at anytime...it probably wasn't that good anyway)

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            • #7
              I really hope the compression is not motion-JPEG like. Looking forward to footage from JB soon

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              • #8
                Originally posted by faran saberi View Post
                On both new cameras you will be getting compressed RAW files. DNG 1.4 is what it's called.
                Unless I'm mistaken, there's a lot of confusion about compressed CinemaDNG. It uses a variable-bit-rate, mathematically lossless, Huffman-type compression. As of the latest specification (v1.1, Sept. 2011), CinemaDNG doesn't yet support lossy compression, although it's under consideration.

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                • #9
                  The 8 bit JPEG part of CinemaDNG refers to some sort of proxie files, that can be generated on the fly.
                  It has nothing to do with the actual material.

                  Looking at the ratios, BM would probably apply some sort of lossless mild Huffman compression.

                  Edit: Ah, Tzedekh was faster
                  Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

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                  • #10
                    Guys.

                    DNG is an OPEN standard.

                    Adobe don't own it anymore. Quoting the ADOBE manual doesn't mean something NEW isn't being developed within the DNG framework. BMD are part of the DNG working group and certainly are having a lot to say about where the standard is going.

                    It's up to anyone to amend and extend. BMD have a history of doing this for standards...adopting new specs and for those specs to then become part of the standard. (hello 6G SDI ?)

                    jb

                    - and watch as we wait for Adobe to catch up on the format they invented and abandoned ;-)

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                    • #11
                      I hope they really knock it out of the park with the compression. Red gets a lot of attention from their cameras but I think RedCode is really the heart of their products. If BMD can get close to RC with file size & quality it would really complete the puzzle.

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                      • #12
                        Would be easy with Cineform, but there must be some reason, why BM doesn't do that.
                        Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

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                        • #13
                          http://www.refocusedmedia.com
                          Film / Photography
                          esse quam videri

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                          • #14
                            thank you

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jmad View Post
                              I hope they really knock it out of the park with the compression. Red gets a lot of attention from their cameras but I think RedCode is really the heart of their products. If BMD can get close to RC with file size & quality it would really complete the puzzle.
                              They won't go RED's JPEG2000 route- needs load of power to encode and I think it would be way to expensive (chip) for what BM is trying to do.
                              It's also problematic in the post- Cineform in terms of performance/quality is miles ahead. There are other options: one of the simplest is to make 3:1 ProRes mode- just don't call it ProRes (to avoid problems with Apple). The beauty of this would be fact that it would still work with every app which supports ProRes

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