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Brief thoughts and a bit of footage from the URSA Mini 4.6K

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  • Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
    I do.

    I have been shooting it along side Alexa Mini and Alexa Plus for a while now.

    It's DR is indistinguishable when matching shot to shot. Across many shots and many high contrast scenes I haven't found a situation where the URSA / mini 4.6k sensor hasn't kept up with an Alexa.

    The new bmd film profile is also a huge improvement and makes the colour correction process much faster.

    jb
    I'd just mark this man's words.

    From what we know, nothing available to the masses outside of the F65 gets close to Alexa's DR. I've seen numbers from all of the cameras claiming similar DR, they don't match real world results. It's always a good two stops better than the competition, so if Alexa's 14.5 to 15 stops (pretty much agreed upon everywhere) then Dragon, C300, etc. are 12.5-13 on their best days.

    I don't have anything to wager, but I would be incredibly surprised if the 4.6K on release firmware wouldn't measure AT LEAST 14.5 stops of factual, useable DR shooting RAW, with R12 4.6K LOG.

    Sometimes I wonder if 15 stops is being conservative. Probably not, but wouldn't be surprised if so.

    SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
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    • Originally posted by Kholi View Post
      I'd just mark this man's words.

      From what we know, nothing available to the masses outside of the F65 gets close to Alexa's DR. I've seen numbers from all of the cameras claiming similar DR, they don't match real world results. It's always a good two stops better than the competition, so if Alexa's 14.5 to 15 stops (pretty much agreed upon everywhere) then Dragon, C300, etc. are 12.5-13 on their best days.

      I don't have anything to wager, but I would be incredibly surprised if the 4.6K on release firmware wouldn't measure AT LEAST 14.5 stops of factual, useable DR shooting RAW, with R12 4.6K LOG.

      Sometimes I wonder if 15 stops is being conservative. Probably not, but wouldn't be surprised if so.
      i dont even understand how the hell F65 and Alexa gets together on same sentence? Alexa is like another universe.I worked with F65/F55 and that camera is almost same level with Epic (non dragon)
      There is only one camera which closest contender to Alexa is Dragon.
      Guys please do not make comments about cameras without working with them on the field.Spec sheets dont say anything about products.Its just numbers etc.
      Work with F65/55 on real job and we ll have talk again about it

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      • Originally posted by Kemalettin Sert View Post
        i dont even understand how the hell F65 and Alexa gets together on same sentence? Alexa is like another universe.I worked with F65/F55 and that camera is almost same level with Epic (non dragon)
        And why the hell are you putting the F55 and F65 together? Those cameras are worlds apart, and PRACTICAL experience with them both shows that.

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        • Originally posted by Kholi View Post
          I'd just mark this man's words.

          From what we know, nothing available to the masses outside of the F65 gets close to Alexa's DR. I've seen numbers from all of the cameras claiming similar DR, they don't match real world results. It's always a good two stops better than the competition, so if Alexa's 14.5 to 15 stops (pretty much agreed upon everywhere) then Dragon, C300, etc. are 12.5-13 on their best days.

          I don't have anything to wager, but I would be incredibly surprised if the 4.6K on release firmware wouldn't measure AT LEAST 14.5 stops of factual, useable DR shooting RAW, with R12 4.6K LOG.

          Sometimes I wonder if 15 stops is being conservative. Probably not, but wouldn't be surprised if so.
          Do you really think that the beta testers are allowed to come here and tell us that it does not meet expectations? I really appreciate their contributions, but it's important to understand the context for what they can say or reveal in terms of footage. Even the most famous DPs and directors in the world are not allowed to speak ill of a company that provides them with a free camera for testing. When have you ever seen such a thing?

          As for the other cameras, I'm really not here to debate which one of the Alexa, the Dragon, or the F65 is better in DR or color. I think at the $60K+ level, it's like a preference for your favorite film stock and is mostly subjective. Like film stock, each one of those 3 has its purpose. Finally, this is a forum for those of us who want to buy a Blackmagic 4.6k, or that had pre-orders like me. If we can't be objective and critical of what we are getting for our money, then there is no point. We're not here to pass around the Kool-Aid of how great this camera is when everything that we have seen has been a disappointment (at least for me). It is entirely possible that this camera is equal to a $60K or $80K camera, but I have not seen any evidence to support this thesis. In fact, so far it looks no better than the Ursa Mini 4k and barely better than my own BMPC 4k. I hope that with the final release and with RAW 4.6k enabled we can see for ourselves what the gentleman above is claiming.
          Last edited by Kino; 12-11-2015, 03:06 PM.

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          • Originally posted by Kino View Post
            Do you really think that the beta testers are allowed to come here and tell us that it does not meet expectations? I really appreciate their contributions, but it's important to understand the context for what they can say or reveal in terms of footage. Even the most famous DPs and directors in the world are not allowed to speak ill of a company that provides them with a free camera for testing. When have you ever seen such a thing?

            As for the other cameras, I'm really not here to debate which one of the Alexa, the Dragon, or the F65 is better in DR or color. I think at the $60K+ level, it's like a preference for your favorite film stock and is mostly subjective. Finally, this is a forum for those of us who want to buy a Blackmagic 4.6k, or that had pre-orders like me. If we can't be objective and critical of what we are getting for our money, then there is no point. We're not here to pass around the Kool Aid of how great this camera is when everything that we have seen has been a disappointment (at least for me). It is entirely possible that this camera is equal to a $60K or $80K camera, but I have not seen any evidence to support this thesis. In fact, so far it looks no better than the Ursa Mini 4k barely better than my own BMPC 4k. I hope that with the final release and with RAW 4.6k enabled we can see for ourselves what the gentleman above is claiming.
            You might want to do some research on who you're talking to.

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            • Originally posted by Kemalettin Sert View Post
              i dont even understand how the hell F65 and Alexa gets together on same sentence? Alexa is like another universe.I worked with F65/F55 and that camera is almost same level with Epic (non dragon)
              There is only one camera which closest contender to Alexa is Dragon.
              Guys please do not make comments about cameras without working with them on the field.Spec sheets dont say anything about products.Its just numbers etc.
              Work with F65/55 on real job and we ll have talk again about it
              How do you know he hasn't worked with all these cameras?

              Lotta posts going up these days from people who don't know who their talking to or what work they've done.

              Comment


              • Still waiting to see a side by side comparison with a BMPCC which is my benchmark 13 stops and the 4.6k sensor to see if it really is a 15 stops.

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                • Originally posted by vicharris View Post
                  You might want to do some research on who you're talking to.
                  I'm really too old for this. If you have something to refute in what I said, go ahead and be specific. But trying to intimidate people based on your misguided sense of superiority is not helping your argument. No need to put down others to elevate yourself.

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                  • Originally posted by Kino View Post
                    No need to put down others to elevate yourself.
                    Implying that's we're all just "passing around the Kool-Aid" seems like a put down, no?
                    vimeo.com/kenfranks

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                    • Wow this topic is getting way too intimidating...

                      Come on guys, in a few weeks / months, the camera will be out, and we'll all have our answers. I don't see the point in getting mad at each other just for a result that we'll have in a couple of days and tests...

                      We're all allowed some skepticism or confidence, and shouldn't be disrespected nor agressive for that.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Kino View Post
                        In fact, so far it looks no better than the Ursa Mini 4k and barely better than my own BMPC 4k.
                        Yes, some footage looks similar to BMPC due to poster's grade likes, but don't mix it up with the camera potential.
                        From the 4.6k footage posted (thanks, testers) i find a colour and especially DR not a step but a jump better than my BMPC (and BMCC, and Raven btw).
                        The only lack for me is some rec.709 graded raw studio footage (+ ColorChecker, + FilmConvert would be great...)
                        and "highlights" stress test footage (including bright light sources in the context of the interior).
                        ps: And im not a BMD fan nor a tester actually

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Finster View Post
                          Implying that's we're all just "passing around the Kool-Aid" seems like a put down, no?
                          Not really. I said that "we're not here to pass around Kool-Aid." It's just an expression to say that no one here is passing around Kool-Aid and that we should keep it that way. It was aimed at no one in particular.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kino View Post
                            Do you really think that the beta testers are allowed to come here and tell us that it does not meet expectations? I really appreciate their contributions, but it's important to understand the context for what they can say or reveal in terms of footage. Even the most famous DPs and directors in the world are not allowed to speak ill of a company that provides them with a free camera for testing. When have you ever seen such a thing?

                            As for the other cameras, I'm really not here to debate which one of the Alexa, the Dragon, or the F65 is better in DR or color. I think at the $60K+ level, it's like a preference for your favorite film stock and is mostly subjective. Like film stock, each one of those 3 has its purpose. Finally, this is a forum for those of us who want to buy a Blackmagic 4.6k, or that had pre-orders like me. If we can't be objective and critical of what we are getting for our money, then there is no point. We're not here to pass around the Kool-Aid of how great this camera is when everything that we have seen has been a disappointment (at least for me). It is entirely possible that this camera is equal to a $60K or $80K camera, but I have not seen any evidence to support this thesis. In fact, so far it looks no better than the Ursa Mini 4k and barely better than my own BMPC 4k. I hope that with the final release and with RAW 4.6k enabled we can see for ourselves what the gentleman above is claiming.

                            So there you go again, attacking the credibility of someone else now. Give it a rest.
                            Disagree or whatever but unless you're willing to not hide behind anonymity then your credibility is as low as it gets.

                            Can we know who you are, see some of your work, that way we can base how valid your opinions are on that basis. Which is not really the way I think it should be done , by the way - but you seem adamant that it should be a contributing factor to the validity of someone's comments.
                            Tom Majerski
                            Cinematographer / Photographer / CGI Artist / Filmmaker

                            http://www.TetraGrade.com
                            http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5157752/

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                            • Originally posted by Kholi View Post
                              I'd just mark this man's words.

                              From what we know, nothing available to the masses outside of the F65 gets close to Alexa's DR. I've seen numbers from all of the cameras claiming similar DR, they don't match real world results. It's always a good two stops better than the competition, so if Alexa's 14.5 to 15 stops (pretty much agreed upon everywhere) then Dragon, C300, etc. are 12.5-13 on their best days.

                              I don't have anything to wager, but I would be incredibly surprised if the 4.6K on release firmware wouldn't measure AT LEAST 14.5 stops of factual, useable DR shooting RAW, with R12 4.6K LOG.

                              Sometimes I wonder if 15 stops is being conservative. Probably not, but wouldn't be surprised if so.
                              Kholi, that's amazing to hear from you as well as John. Stop it. No more! You're making the wait harder lol.

                              Thank you for your insight. While DR numbers are subjective based on one's tolerance for noise, it's good to hear what you and John are seeing. Thanks for sharing!
                              Paul Del Vecchio - Director/Producer
                              http://www.PaulDV.net
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                              • Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
                                I do.

                                I have been shooting it along side Alexa Mini and Alexa Plus for a while now.

                                It's DR is indistinguishable when matching shot to shot. Across many shots and many high contrast scenes I haven't found a situation where the URSA / mini 4.6k sensor hasn't kept up with an Alexa.

                                The new bmd film profile is also a huge improvement and makes the colour correction process much faster.

                                jb
                                JB, are you shooting raw or ProRes? If ProRes which flavor?

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