Thread: P4k vs P6k conspiracy theory

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  1. #1 P4k vs P6k conspiracy theory 
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    It's incredibly frustrating to see the P4k in perpetual back order while the P6k is in stock and ready to order. Clearly Blackmagic was caught off guard and can't keep up with the demand, they have seen the second market mark ups and realized they priced the original too low relative to the market value, but they are not the type of company to raise the price of an existing product so they release something new to shift the demand. Realistically they don't sell quite as many at the higher price point, but they don't have to with the higher margins.

    There is absolutely no reason why the supply cost should be significantly different. Looking at other cameras on the market that use appearantly the same sensor the MFT gh-5s is actually more expensive than the aps-c Fuji xt-3. Giving 6k raw however can and should play to higher price point as the data management would be obscene to the typical prosumer user.

    This is not the same as original pocket vs Bmcc, as those were very different cameras, these new cameras are essentially exactly the same save the different sensor and lens mount.

    Im sure they are correct that people who are invested in canon mount glass are willing to pay more to work native without adapters, it might even take some potential P4k buyers out of the market for now, as they assess whether or not they should step up to the 6k.

    The industry as a whole is moving toward the 135 vista vision full frame standard, and thats were we'll likely land in another year or so, which is kind of sad as MFT is a very useful format for the one man band shooter. There s finally a growing market of affordable compact cine glass that is untouchable for larger formats, but manual glass should be a lifetime investment, electronic cameras obviously not. Is the righting on the wall for the death of small formats once again?
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  2. #2  
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    Careful dop16mm......someone here is surely going to jump on you for your thoughts.

    you feel you are getting screwed by BMD and voice your thoughts......and BAM you will have some ridiculous comment on your thread.

    Well it is the Internet and it is a forum after all. I just thought this one was better. Silly me.
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  3. #3  
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    It is a good and realistic observation. I said something similar about Panasonic moving from MFT in their Pro camera lineup, when the replaced the AF100 with the EVA1, a larger sensor, EF mount camera. The JVC LS300 was languishing with poor sales and no new pro quality MFT video type cameras, apart from Panasonic's consumer line of GH cameras, seem to exist. Than came the new, even larger format cameras like the Panasonic S1H, Nikon’s Z6, and Canon’s entry into this market. BMD had released a new large sensor Ursa Mini Pro Camera, no updates for their MFT line. The end of MFT?

    No, then to my (and probably everyone else’s) surprise, BMD announced the new Pocket 4K MFT Camera and BRaw Support for it, a pro version of Pana’s GH5S which looked good, but no internal pro-level codecs. So now new life is breathed into the MFT format once again. But now S16 format in new small video camera is dying, the new Pocket 4K has a very small HD window, which was not very useful for S16 shooting. Time to sell my S16 glass? Not quite, now BMD has just announced a new S16 2.5/2.6K window on the new Pocket 4K, so S16 is back again!

    The release of the Pocket 6K is more of a stepping stone for BMD to get some of the larger sensor EF mount camera market, providing UMPro shooters with a smaller B camera in their workflow, not a competition or replacement for the Pocket 4K.

    Long live MFT and S16!
    Cheers
    Last edited by Denny Smith; 09-25-2019 at 06:27 PM.
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  4. #4  
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    Ursa Broadcast and UMP are practically the same camera yet the flagship camera is $2500 more. Is the sensor and hardware that much more expensive? Probably not. Is it a conspiracy? Nope, just business. Itís like this whole Red Mag thing, people pretending to be naive so they can pretend to be outraged. Premium products command premium prices. Business, nothing new here.

    BM likely eats the cost of the UB because a complete camera chain costs about $12,000. Sell you the camera cheap then make their money on the fiber backs and display. Sure Red gets a huge margin on media, so do printer manufacturers.

    Maybe BM is taking a bath on the P4k and using market segmentation to recoup on the 6k. Who knows? I guess the point is you cant just compare one product to another without looking at the whole ecosystem........or itís a conspiracy to make money. Wait, isnít that what business is supposed to do?
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  5. #5  
    Senior Member Taikonaut's Avatar
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    I'm guessing but most people if they havent already invested in the Pocket 4k would opt for the Pocket 6k despite the almost double in price. Why the 4k backordered maybe because BMD had shift much of the production to the 6k in anticipation of the increase demand hence why it is available while the 4k is on backorder.
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  6. #6  
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    A S35 sensor size ten years ago would have cost a company a lot. Prices drop. Blackmagic saw it could get a S35 sensor size chip and make it a price that is consistent with their low pricing scheme.

    You also have a public that wants bigger because they think better. How many times have I seen a post the day of an announcement like when the Pocket 4k was announced and someone writes 'when will BM release an 8k.'

    4k tv's, now talk of 8k tv's. The publics insatiable desire for more bigger, better and with prices falling why not give it to them. Yeah I agree one man band and run and gun was saved by smaller chip cameras. I've watched iPhone movies that look great. Bigger may be better but its moire of a headache in acquisition and post.

    I think the writing is on the wall for m43. I will still use it because its easier to focus and is lens adaptable to almost any lens. But theres no conspiracy, its the public that decides, maybe to their detriment.
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mico View Post
    A S35 sensor size ten years ago would have cost a company a lot. Prices drop. Blackmagic saw it could get a S35 sensor size chip and make it a price that is consistent with their low pricing scheme.

    You also have a public that wants bigger because they think better. How many times have I seen a post the day of an announcement like when the Pocket 4k was announced and someone writes 'when will BM release an 8k.'

    4k tv's, now talk of 8k tv's. The publics insatiable desire for more bigger, better and with prices falling why not give it to them. Yeah I agree one man band and run and gun was saved by smaller chip cameras. I've watched iPhone movies that look great. Bigger may be better but its moire of a headache in acquisition and post.

    I think the writing is on the wall for m43. I will still use it because its easier to focus and is lens adaptable to almost any lens. But theres no conspiracy, its the public that decides, maybe to their detriment.
    Most consumers do not own a 4k TV. I don't know anyone who owns a 4k TV yet it is impossible to find a decent size 1080p TV in any store. I think the cost of manufacturing goes down and the manufacturers compete against each other on features. I think it is much more of a push than a pull.

    Cameras are a bit of a different story. Content producers wish to future proof. The hard part for me is getting the shot. I don't want the content rejected simply because it is not 4k. Also even if delivery is in 1080p 4k capture makes better 1080p than 1080p capture.

    The TV industry is rapidly getting back to the point it was at before digital HD flat panels. The HDR 4k sets that are being sold today are good enough. I don't see a bunch of pent up demand for 8k delivery. 8k will come. But not because of overwhelming customer demand.
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    So the people you know are the indicators of world sales?

    "As expected, 4K is quickly becoming the standard for TV sales. Just like HD before it, hardware technology reached the market far before any content did, placing an impetus on content creators and providers to catch up, while also allowing for a time of transition. While some of the satellite and cable providers are lagging behind major streaming services for 4K support and content, that too is shifting. As 4K becomes the norm, questions surround HDR and its many forms will become the focus,".

    https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300680150.html

    "The rising demand for 4K & HDR resolution TVs ,increasing urban population, changing lifestyles, increasing internet users, growing demand for internet connected multimedia devices, rising disposable income of consumers, high investments in technological advancements by industry players, increasing consumers’ inclination toward high-tech devices, on-going TV network digitization, and rising marketing strategy by key manufactures are the factors anticipated to boost the growth of the market in the forecast period."

    https://www.marketwatch.com/press-re...hts-2019-02-20

    "Even more surprising are the findings and predictions on 8K TVs, which finally entered their own stable niche in 2018 and are expected to see shipments of at least 0.2 million units in 2019. By 2023 this fledgling market is predicted to see 130% growth as more brands back the technology of 8K. The interesting thing about this is that 8K TV sales are growing so decently despite the fact that 8K video sources basically don’t yet exist for the consumer market due to continuing difficulties with the peripheral technologies of creating and transmitting 8K video."

    http://4k.com/news/tv-sales-reach-an...from-8k-26170/
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  9. #9  
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    I really love the mft in the Pocket 4k.

    It's big enough to play with depth of field and the size of the camera with the lens is very convenient for certain projects.

    It won't go away just because. As soon as I can afford it I will buy a set of meikes for it.
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taikonaut View Post
    I'm guessing but most people if they havent already invested in the Pocket 4k would opt for the Pocket 6k despite the almost double in price. Why the 4k backordered maybe because BMD had shift much of the production to the 6k in anticipation of the increase demand hence why it is available while the 4k is on backorder.
    This is my thinking as well. But are people just following like sheep, ooh shiny. I've been really looking for significant difference in final video from both cameras, and I'm no seeing it, there's not even a significant difference in DOF due to sensor size as I've mentioned before.

    For final HD delivery over sampling does matter most broadcasters settled on the 2.8k Alexa as the minimum for a Bayern sensor vs 3ccd. The same is not yet the case for 4k with most accepting chip resolution equal to recorded resolution. Whether that changes in the future, who knows.

    For me the 4k seems good enough, and I could have 2 for the price of the 6k, which would do more for my production value and efficiency than 6k, also lenses can be way smaller, also a benefit at times. I don't even have it yet, but feels like I'd be way behind the curve again even though the final audience wouldn't even know what it is shot on or care.
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