Thread: Anybody try these very cheap 128 Cfast cards?

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  1. #191  
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    So here is my first set of test on the Biwin 256gb cards. For each resolution on the URSA 4K Camera, I tested it at 24fps and 60fps. My test is a taking a continuous 5 minute recording time. Reason for my criteria is I shoot mostly narrative and most of my shoots do not roll for more than 5 minutes. In truth a couple of minutes is a long take. I have not tested dual card mode as that will be my second test. 4saken has positive report on dual mode so please refer to his post here.

    First, the bad news. 4K Raw at 60fps and UHD 444XQ 60fps had dropped frames after 1 minute on 3 of the cards but on the 4th card it was less than a minute. Not sure if that has to do with the heat. The cards got really hot but I was able to hold it from its edges.

    The good news. 4K Raw 3.1 and all other UHD and HD Prores codecs at both fps was just fine.

    I didn't fill up the card test yet. I will do one test of writing 4K Raw until the card fills up tomorrow and report on it next. Overall, I think the cards are workable but I can't attest to its durability since I only had it for a few days. I think even at $150 ebay retail price, it holds well... Until the other cards start coming down in price.
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  2. #192  
    Senior Member FUEGO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EYu View Post

    First, the bad news. 4K Raw at 60fps and UHD 444XQ 60fps had dropped frames after 1 minute on 3 of the cards but on the 4th card it was less than a minute. Not sure if that has to do with the heat. The cards got really hot but I was able to hold it from its edges.
    This is not "bad" news, it's just how it works. Uncompressed 4K RAW at high frame rates when "off speed recording" is enabled requires dual card mode. It's in the manual - quoting from page 17:
    "For uncompressed 4.6K and 4K RAW, framerates above 30 fps use dual card mode on all URSA and URSA Mini cameras."

    I have a 256gb Biwin that was purchased from ebay. As chervas previously mentioned, Lee Miller, the seller, was very helpful and sent frequent updates regarding the status of the shipment. His customer service is on point.

    4k uncompressed RAW @ 24/60fps in dual card mode worked just fine on my end in conjunction with a Lexar 3400x on the second slot. No dropped frames whatsoever, and it didn't get any warmer than the Lexar did, but this can vary from cam to cam. I've clocked several hours of testing on the card thus far. So far, so good.

    Whether it's a good idea to mix brands or cards that spec at different write speeds or feature MLC vs SLC is beyond the scope of what I know about the technology. Maybe a Silicon Motion engineer will know the answer. I've used mixed brand/write speed SDXC on dual slot Panny's in the past with no problems, so Ursa doesn't scare me.
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  3. #193  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
    This is not "bad" news, it's just how it works. Uncompressed 4K RAW at high frame rates when "off speed recording" is enabled requires dual card mode. It's in the manual - quoting from page 17:
    "For uncompressed 4.6K and 4K RAW, framerates above 30 fps use dual card mode on all URSA and URSA Mini cameras."

    I have a 256gb Biwin that was purchased from ebay. As chervas previously mentioned, Lee Miller, the seller, was very helpful and sent frequent updates regarding the status of the shipment.

    4k uncompressed RAW @ 24/60fps in dual card mode worked just fine on my end in conjunction with a Lexar 3400x on the second slot. No dropped frames whatsoever, and it didn't get any warmer than the Lexar did, but this can vary from cam to cam. I've clocked several hours of testing on the card thus far. So far, so good.
    Ha!
    I was suspecting that it has to be in dual mode to achieve it but didn't RTFM on its page 17. I'll find out tomorrow then but thanks for pointing that out. I am curious if the write speed is just right up there at 258MB/s and 4K Raw write is 255MB/s. So it is 444XQ that can cause drop frames at higher than 30fps.

    Post Lee Miller ebay link so if others are looking for a reputable and confirmed retailer they know where to order from. What is his price?

    Last, my cards got hot after 5 minutes of recording straight. I am on the URSA Major so it's cam to cam. It cooled down after a few minutes when I took it off. So far not bad for what I paid for it.
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  4. #194  
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    Quote Originally Posted by EYu View Post
    Ha!
    I was suspecting that it has to be in dual mode to achieve it but didn't RTFM on its page 17. I'll find out tomorrow then but thanks for pointing that out. I am curious if the write speed is just right up there at 258MB/s and 4K Raw write is 255MB/s. So it is 444XQ that can cause drop frames at higher than 30fps.

    Post Lee Miller ebay link so if others are looking for a reputable and confirmed retailer they know where to order from. What is his price?

    Last, my cards got hot after 5 minutes of recording straight. I am on the URSA Major so it's cam to cam. It cooled down after a few minutes when I took it off. So far not bad for what I paid for it.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BiWin-256GB-...MAAOSwmtJXX8hK

    I don't benefit by vouching for this, but it's legit. All I can say is that this particular card from this particular batch works for me. Results may or may not vary, I can't call it.

    Here are speed tests. I let the cards run for 10 minutes. There is a REDCODE 3:1 option in Aja, but I only tested Prores 4444:

    Biwin

    biwin-bmd_test.jpgbiwin-aja.jpg

    Lexar 3400x

    lexar-bmd.jpglexar-aja.jpg


    It makes sense (to me at least) that cards will generate more heat at higher frame rates and affect power consumption due to overcranking. Think about it: it's UNCOMPRESSED 4K RAW AT 60FPS! Sit back, disconnect your brain from forum chatter, look at your machine, and really mull it over.

    Remember, back in the day cinematographers had to physically crank a lever (!) on a camera to achieve any motion at all. This was just a century ago. Imagine trying to crank a lever on a heavy ass camera with feet of celluloid for a minute at a time to achieve close to 24fps, never mind 60/80/120/240, etc.

    "...So far, not bad for what I paid for." Damn right, Eyu. All of this shit is amazing, and nobody's content, but I digress...


    edited to include running time of tests.
    Last edited by FUEGO; 08-26-2016 at 01:03 AM.
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  5. #195  
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    Folks, I promised a follow-up test on those Biwin cards. Like Fuego here, I'm not vouching for it but so far for the price until those Lexar and Sandisk come down to reasonable price point, they are working alternatives for me. So here's what my new test results are:

    1. 4K Raw 60 FPS Dual Card Mode (2 x 256Gb cards) until full (about 32 minutes of continues recording) - Recording went fine, no drop frames at all. Cards were a bit hot but it was okay to hold.

    2. 4K 3:1 60, 30, 24, 23.97 run until card was full - Recording was fine, no drop frames at all. Cards were hot but that's because it was writing/reading for about 16 to 40 minutes at different frame rates.

    3. Prores 422HQ 1080p 80fps Film/Full run card for 30 minutes - Recording was fine, no drop frames at all. Card was warm but okay.

    From those test, I assumed the lower Prores codecs at the different frame rates are fine as well. Overall, I give this card a thumbs up but with caution.

    I don't have a 4.6K to test it on so please refer to 4saken's results that were previously posted here.
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  6. #196  
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    Happy to hear you're having good results with the Biwin cards. I haven't had a chance to do anymore tests since we are in crunch time on Doctor Strange finishing up the vfx but hopefully in October I'll have some more time to finally run some proper tests and also put my new anamorphic setup to good use.
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  7. #197  
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    So, the ebay listing for the aforementioned Biwin 256gb cfast 2.0 cards has been updated with the following:

    "*** Currently being certified by Blackmagic Design ***"

    I don't know how to confirm the authenticity of this statement, but it'll be cool if it becomes a fact. Just wanted to put this out there for bargain hunters.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BiWin-256GB-...MAAOSwmtJXX8hK
    Last edited by FUEGO; 08-31-2016 at 12:36 AM. Reason: edited to include link
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  8. #198  
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    We have some cards and are testing them but that doesn't mean they WILL be put on the recommended list.
    Blackmagic Design
    My BMD LUTs.

    **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**
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  9. #199  
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    Are you allowed to share the process that determines certification? Does it require hours of "burn-in" stress tests in order to calculate longevity and rate of failure?
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  10. #200  
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    From the BMD forum thread, Lee Miller of Biwin shared this post:


    Lee Miller
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    Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:31 am
    Re: BIWIN Low-Cost CFast 2.0 Cards for URSA and URSA Mini
    Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:07 am

    Hey everyone. I love reading this stuff, keep up the good work. If you're not entirely happy with your new BiWin cards, just send them back to me for a refund. I'm pretty sure they'll be outstanding, and some users report no issues so far, but just to put your mind at ease, I will accept them back.

    My aim is to provide the best customer experience ever. As long as I'm awake and conscious, I'm available to help you (I don't drink alcohol anymore so I'll always be sober, that's a bonus, hehe). I'm always open to suggestions and will provide the latest news on current and future technology from the office and factory in China.

    My Skype is leemiller1980 - video chats are very welcome.

    For users of this forum, please email me at lee@biwin.co.uk for discounts on the eBay prices if you buy them from http://www.biwin.co.uk. There are no eBay fees there so I can hand down the reduced cost. PayPal, credit cards, BitCoin and direct bank transfer are all accepted.

    Awesome stuff. Peace out.

    Lee Miller
    Lee Miller
    Sales Manager

    BiWin Storage Technology Limited - www.biwin.co.uk [lee@biwin.co.uk]
    - www.ebay.com/usr/drkooler - www.facebook.com/biwinuk
    - Affiliate marketing available. - Currently developing faster 256GB and new 512GB CFast cards.
    You can check out the discussion here...

    http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/vi...301959#p301959
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