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  • #16
    You will be able to get rid of the chroma noise, but not the pattern itself.
    If I wanted my films to look like the real world I'd buy a video camera.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by yoclay View Post
      You will be able to get rid of the chroma noise, but not the pattern itself.
      Actually not concerned with the aliasing pattern, that's fine. GH2 had aliasing, but very little chroma aliasing/moire. I can live with that. At 3K it's MORE than forgivable to me, but when the color starts to show up in hair or clothes, that's when it's not good.

      Of course, if it offends anyone to have aliasing in general, then that is where Mosaic would come in for sure.

      SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
      Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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      • #18
        Originally posted by yoclay View Post
        You will be able to get rid of the chroma noise, but not the pattern itself.
        re-read my post. You can get rid of the pattern as well.

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        • #19
          What ever happened to the uprezzing solution in Nuke that got rid of the aliasing, moire, and chroma aliasing? That thread seemed to just die out with no final conclusion.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Kholi View Post
            Actually not concerned with the aliasing pattern, that's fine. GH2 had aliasing, but very little chroma aliasing/moire. I can live with that. At 3K it's MORE than forgivable to me, but when the color starts to show up in hair or clothes, that's when it's not good.

            Of course, if it offends anyone to have aliasing in general, then that is where Mosaic would come in for sure.
            Then if you don't mind the pattern, and can live with the Gh2 look. The best way is to use the "Color" slider under the "Details" section of LR. Put "color" all the way to the right at 100 and set the rest to zero (again to speed up the export).
            this is just using the above method.
            Pdi shoot_tb_2013-02-07_1246_C0024_000527.jpg
            Pdi shoot_tb_2013-02-07_1246_C0024_000527-2.jpg

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            • #21
              I can still see moire in the bottom image... if you have PhotoNinja, try that.

              I like LR4... but, in that area, just the color noise removal on photoNinja literally ripped all of the color moire out. At 100 in LR4, it was still there on the bookbag examples that I posted. If I had a full license I would export a few seconds to see what it does in motion because I feel like it shouldn't be that easy.

              My feeling is that you might have missed those stills back a page, I already tried LR4, it wasn't completely satisfactory.

              SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
              Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Kholi View Post
                I can still see moire in the bottom image... if you have PhotoNinja, try that.

                I like LR4... but, in that area, just the color noise removal on photoNinja literally ripped all of the color moire out. At 100 in LR4, it was still there on the bookbag examples that I posted. If I had a full license I would export a few seconds to see what it does in motion because I feel like it shouldn't be that easy.
                Thats mostly compression Kholi here on BMCuser. on my monitor, the color moire is completely gone but the patter exists (with using just the color slider under details). It takes all of 2 secs to apply to a shot and get moving along in post. But while in LR, why not primary the shot as well, remove the moire, then move on. Not sure of photo ninja as a RAW converter. But, i'll look at photo ninja if there is a demo version.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Andrew View Post
                  You might want to try PhotoNinja by Picure Code.

                  http://www.picturecode.com/index.php

                  It's an interesting and very high quality raw converter. You can change the debayer method to one that is more suited for cameras with weak AA filters. They also have Noise Ninja built in, which seems to be a great NR tool.

                  I think it's just awesome that this camera uses an open raw format! Being able to use different programs to get different looks is great and I really do feel that each raw converter has it's own look. You can definitely get similar results from each of them, but there are also times when you get a certain look that just can't be recreated by another converter.

                  Photo Ninja is definitely one to check out.

                  I know processing footage through programs made for stills is a huge pain, but it's been fun for me just to see the variation you get from different methods.
                  =[ First page of the thread, man. Demo link right there, from Andrew.

                  SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
                  Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kholi View Post
                    I can also send this DNG for someone to try chroma reduction in Resolve. If Resolve 9 can do this just with chroma noise reduction* then I think my final issue with this camera is ... well... resolved.
                    Send it through to me and i will try the NR in Resolve and in Neat Video.
                    Blackmagic Design
                    My BMD LUTs.

                    **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by CaptainHook View Post
                      Send it through to me and i will try the NR in Resolve and in Neat Video.
                      Seenntttt.

                      SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
                      Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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                      • #26
                        Just played with the photo ninja Kholi. Program stinks, sorry. Way to slow. What is happening is that on top of the demosaic of the file, the program is applying their noise ninja to the image. that will take FOREVER to process say a 2500 frame shot. You can acheive the save thing if not better if you start touching the "luminance" slider in LM. But again, every single slider will add to the amount of time exporting.

                        I'll play with it some more, on top of trying out capture one and aperture as I have both of those too. Too me, LR is the fastest and easiest to handle the BMC DNG's. Why, Because Abode created the DNG.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dustylense View Post
                          Just played with the photo ninja Kholi. Program stinks, sorry. Way to slow. What is happening is that on top of the demosaic of the file, the program is applying their noise ninja to the image. that will take FOREVER to process say a 2500 frame shot. You can acheive the save thing if not better if you start touching the "luminance" slider in LM. But again, every single slider will add to the amount of time exporting.

                          I'll play with it some more, on top of trying out capture one and aperture as I have both of those too. Too me, LR is the fastest and easiest to handle the BMC DNG's. Why, Because Abode created the DNG.
                          Sometimes, I'm not even sure we're in the same thread. Honestly.

                          I'm not commenting on what program is better. I'm sure the multi-million dollar app that is Lightroom is better overall, from GUI to whatever. I am commenting on how Noise Ninja handled the chroma moire on the bag image that I posted, and it did a better job in less time time than Lightroom 4 maxed out. Am I losing something in translation? It seems very easy to understand, but here is the point (broken down):

                          How does Chroma Noise Reduction affect a DNG "contaminated" with moire. Right now the comparison is between LR4, PhotoNinja (suggested by Andrew), and now thanks to Cap'n Hook R9 and Neat Video. I've already tried Lightroom, it doesn't get rid of it completely.

                          I don't plan on processing through ANY OF THESE APPLICATIONS as I stated several posts ago, if R9 does the same thing.

                          Hopefully, that helps to clear things up.

                          SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
                          Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Kholi View Post
                            Sometimes, I'm not even sure we're in the same thread. Honestly.

                            I'm not commenting on what program is better. I'm sure the multi-million dollar app that is Lightroom is better overall, from GUI to whatever. I am commenting on how Noise Ninja handled the chroma moire on the bag image that I posted, and it did a better job in less time time than Lightroom 4 maxed out. Am I losing something in translation? It seems very easy to understand, but here is the point (broken down):

                            How does Chroma Noise Reduction affect a DNG "contaminated" with moire. Right now the comparison is between LR4, PhotoNinja (suggested by Andrew), and now thanks to Cap'n Hook R9 and Neat Video. I've already tried Lightroom, it doesn't get rid of it completely.

                            I don't plan on processing through ANY OF THESE APPLICATIONS as I stated several posts ago, if R9 does the same thing.

                            Hopefully, that helps to clear things up.
                            Kholi, were on the same thread. Calm down. Again, what and why I told you of how your are seeing results in Photo Ninja is because it's applying NOISE NINJA (a very old photo noise reduction plug) to the FILE, on top of the demosiac of the DNG. Go ahead, de-click NOISE NINJA 3.0 the the program.
                            What Andrew and Hook are doing is applying basically the same thing, a NOISE REDUCER. Neat video, great app, takes FOREVER TO RENDER as do ALL NOISE REDUCERS.

                            I agree with you Kholi, it's not about what program is better. But what you are not seeing is what program is EFFICIENT.

                            I've been handling RAW and de before you got to LA, Georgia. Look up the Betterlight back.

                            As do I, I do not intend to use LM, cap one or any of them to handle MOVING dng's. Resolve is MUCH faster of a workflow. But I don't want to rely on Neat Video either as that is the slowest of slow to render. We're looking for a moire' solution. THe VAF is the best solution with LR or Cap One behind that. You can always post sharpen a VAF'ed image.

                            As for stills converters I already gave you 2 ways in LR. One to eliminate the color moire', and another to eliminate the pattern of moire' . all in a very fast method using LR. YES, I said eliminate the PATTERN, so that is not just grey chroma free moire but luminance free moire'.
                            Last edited by dustylense; 02-09-2013, 09:51 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dustylense View Post
                              Kholi, were on the same thread. Calm down. Again, what and why I told you of how your are seeing results in Photo Ninja is because it's applying NOISE NINJA (a very old photo noise reduction plug) to the FILE, on top of the demosiac of the DNG. Go ahead, de-click NOISE NINJA 3.0 the the program.
                              What Andrew and Hook are doing is applying basically the same thing, a NOISE REDUCER. Neat video, great app, takes FOREVER TO RENDER as do ALL NOISE REDUCERS.
                              Originally posted by Kholi View Post

                              After PhotoNinja Noise Ninja Reduction, Chroma all the way to the right, detail slider at 0:


                              Click either photo for a larger PNG screenshot and judge for yourself.

                              I can also send this DNG for someone to try chroma reduction in Resolve.
                              I thought this entire thread was about noise reduction to remove chroma aliasing/moire in either application to begin with? =[ What is going on? Am I eating too much Del Taco or am I really getting old? Can someone help me decipher where the miscommunication is?

                              That's exactly what I slammed the Noise Ninja slider to 100... I don't know how to be more clear about this. Sorry, man.

                              We're looking for a moire' solution. THe VAF is the best solution with LR or Cap One behind that. You can always post sharpen a VAF'ed image.
                              Okay, great, that's the solution you want. Send more emails, in the meantime at least a few of us will see where this goes.

                              SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
                              Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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                              • #30
                                Here are my results, as far as i can tell there is no way to isolate Resolve NR to just chroma.. the controls are crude as you can see here:

                                (Bottom 3 controls)



                                This was my process for the following images:

                                • Open DNG in Resolve, load my Config Preset which makes all DNG's use BMDFilm, do a quick one node correction to restore contrast (i didn't push the blacks very deep on purpose), saturation, and tweak WB/Tint.

                                • Export from Resolve as DPX (convert to JPG in photoshop)

                                • Apply Resolve NR and export as 16bit Tif (convert to JPG in photoshop)

                                • Take DPX (with no NR) into Premiere and add Neat Video. I did an auto profile which grabbed the grey area on left on frame.. i "fine-tuned" the profile by selecting the edge along the top of the bag where the chroma noise seems most obvious to me and pushed up the chroma noise controls in Neat video to 100 and reduced the luminance control to 0.

                                • Export as 16bit Tif and convert to JPG in Photoshop.


                                My DNG conversion from Resolve (No NR):



                                Large: http://f.cl.ly/items/142S3I1a0S2o3a2...90000_NoNR.jpg

                                NR from Resolve (i'm not sure i would ever use this for anything.. looks like the "Portraiture" plugin for Photoshop which makes skin look like plastic to me.. but to be fair i don't have much experience with it, but the controls are obviously limited, might be useful combining with keys etc):



                                Large: http://f.cl.ly/items/0S2x1g0K2P0B313..._ResolveNR.jpg

                                And the NR from Neat Video:



                                Large: http://f.cl.ly/items/0a232s3N3Q300l1..._NeatVideo.jpg

                                I don't think Neat Video did too badly.. i wasn't really sure how it would do as i've never used it for this purpose. Maybe it's not as good as Noise Ninja but i would be interested to see both in Motion. Personally i think Neat Video is good to have, get the Premiere version as i found out the hard way that the After Effects version renders at least 4x slower (it's an after effects problem rather than the plugin) as i own both. Hope that helps Kholi
                                Last edited by CaptainHook; 02-09-2013, 09:59 PM. Reason: typo
                                Blackmagic Design
                                My BMD LUTs.

                                **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

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