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Filming a club scene with strobe lights.. Alexa, Epic, F55, or BMPC??

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  • Filming a club scene with strobe lights.. Alexa, Epic, F55, or BMPC??

    Disclaimer: I'm not RyGuy, this is his brother, David. I couldn't remember my password/username.

    I'm directing a music video soon and I need to film a scene in a club that has crazy flashing lights. I might be DPing as well and I'm looking at my camera options. One of my huge pet peeves with these digital cameras is the rolling shutter, especially with flashing lights.
    We are going to be shooting over a weekend and I was originally planning on shooting with the Alexa, but I am concerned about the strobe lights at this show.


    This is the look I'm trying to emulate, unfortunately we don't have the budget for film: (club scene 1:50)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl3b7dDBLpo&feature=kp

    So I have some basic camera tech questions maybe you guys can help me out with.

    Is the 4K BMPC out yet? Anyone know where I could rent one in the LA area? Or Las Vegas area? I might bring it on as a B-CAM to the Alexa.
    How is it in lowlight?

    I wanted to shoot some of it at 48FPS. Will this help with the strobing effect? If thats the case I could shoot everything on the Alexa at 48FPS and just speed up the shots to 24fps.

    The other option is to shoot with the global shutter F55 or F65, but I'm not crazy about anything I've seen from that camera. It is way to crisp and video looking, especially for the daylight scenes I want to get. Win some you lose some i guess...

    Any advice?

    Much appreciation,
    David

  • #2
    To emulate that effect, you're definitely going to need a global shutter.

    Sometimes the rolling-shutter (in regards to strobing/flashing lights) can kind of have a cool look - depending of in you like the "light bleed" or not. If you go to the 00:28-second mark in my video here (the shot that has Boys Noize DJ'ing from behind), you'll see what I mean: https://vimeo.com/70929158
    My Official Blackmagic Micro Footage: https://vimeo.com/155747487

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    • #3
      Thanks for showing me that! Great shots and I loved the editing.
      It's a different look than what I was going for but it's definitely cool.
      What frame rate/shutter speed were you shooting at?

      Comment


      • #4
        Sony F55 or 4K BMD are your options.

        If you HATE that affect.

        The Alexa also has a rolling shutter so you'll still get the same effect.

        If you're using practical strobes that is.

        Otherwise you can create strobe effects using the Unilux or Lightning strikes "papperazzi" (=$$$) or a cream source lamp with the video syncroniser which WILL work with any rolling shutter camera.

        JB

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        • #5
          Ummmmm....for sure I would go Red Scarlet or Epic rental w/Motion Mount, should do the trick, however you will loose 0.5-1 stop of light, but the plus side is you will have awesome built in NDs and essentially a global shutter on a proven pro camera.

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          • #6
            BTW I say proven pro camera because I currently own an Epic and used to own a Scarlet, where as very few people have fully ran the 4k BMCC through its paces yet, I would be a bit afraid of renting one for a shoot like this right now just because BM is known to have issues out of the gate like black holes, orbs, etc. All of which could be a problem in a scene like this.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
              Sony F55 or 4K BMD are your options.

              If you HATE that affect.

              The Alexa also has a rolling shutter so you'll still get the same effect.

              If you're using practical strobes that is.

              Otherwise you can create strobe effects using the Unilux or Lightning strikes "papperazzi" (=$$$) or a cream source lamp with the video syncroniser which WILL work with any rolling shutter camera.

              JB
              Thanks John!

              I wish I had control of the strobes but we are going to be shooting a live event to take advantage of the DJ's performing in front of the massive audience.
              Have you had any experience the the Alexa studio? I've shot the Alexa handheld is this even possible with the Alexa studio?

              Right now I'm leaning towards what Andrew Allsbury said, using the Red Motion mount on our epic with some super speeds.
              Or I might just suck it up and use an alexa and deal with the strobing.

              Thanks guys!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Andrew Allsbury View Post
                Ummmmm....for sure I would go Red Scarlet or Epic rental w/Motion Mount, should do the trick, however you will loose 0.5-1 stop of light, but the plus side is you will have awesome built in NDs and essentially a global shutter on a proven pro camera.
                He's shooting in a club, normally there wouldn't be any ND Filter in front of the lens unless going for a specific effect. Also RED Camera from my experience with them are not very good in low light. I would shoot on the Sony F55 no questions.....

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by RyGuy View Post
                  Have you had any experience the the Alexa studio? I've shot the Alexa handheld is this even possible with the Alexa studio?

                  Right now I'm leaning towards what Andrew Allsbury said, using the Red Motion mount on our epic with some super speeds.
                  Or I might just suck it up and use an alexa and deal with the strobing.
                  You could easily hand hold an Alexa studio.

                  I'd go F55 rather than an EPIC with a motion mount. It's got better DR and is better in low light too.

                  jb

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
                    You could easily hand hold an Alexa studio.

                    I'd go F55 rather than an EPIC with a motion mount. It's got better DR and is better in low light too.

                    jb

                    F55 all the way.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      F55 in 4k with the RAW recorder would be a great option. But believe me Epic with super speeds, motion mount and a little bit of neat video in post would do awesome also. I am also fully aware he would not be using NDs in a dark night club (lol), but I'm sure there are other scenes in the video.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Andrew Allsbury View Post
                        F55 in 4k with the RAW recorder would be a great option. But believe me Epic with super speeds, motion mount and a little bit of neat video in post would do awesome also. I am also fully aware he would not be using NDs in a dark night club (lol), but I'm sure there are other scenes in the video.
                        I've used RED ONE, Scarlet, Epic and just recently reading and seeing everything Sony has to offer with the Sony F55. The Compressed codec from Sony to my eyes looks much better than even Red Raw code. Also there is some kind of Legal war happening between these companies as well http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/08/s...patent-claims/ .

                        Sony F55 with Global Shutter, better dynamic range and much higher iso 1250 (better in low light) without no question of a doubt I would say is a much better camera than RED. I mean look at these compressed Proxy Files from the camera





                        Many people may not be using Sony F55, but I feel things will be changing soon once more Producers/Companies allow them on there projects.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RyGuy View Post
                          Thanks for showing me that! Great shots and I loved the editing.
                          It's a different look than what I was going for but it's definitely cool.
                          What frame rate/shutter speed were you shooting at?
                          Hi David, thanks for the kind words and compliments, much appreciated!

                          Also, sorry for the late reply!

                          I also find it a pretty cool look - I guess it's a way of using rolling-shutter to our advantage

                          However, if I had to choose, I'd much rather the natural look that global-shutter delivers - especially in regards to lighting.

                          To answer your questions - the slow-motion shots are all at 60FPS, with a varying shutter of 60 and 100.

                          Also, I say go with the F55 - you get the global-shutter, high frame-rate, and good dynamic-range.
                          My Official Blackmagic Micro Footage: https://vimeo.com/155747487

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I would have to disagree with the F55's compressed codec being anywhere near as "good" (very subjective I know) as 5k Redcode RAW (@ any compression 6:1 or below) out of an Epic. The main issue with Red cameras in general is many people don't understand how to properly process/grade/denoise in post production and this ends up with a lot of very poor looking footage. Another thought...I know there are a few Dragon Epics roaming around for rent, this would give you the best of both worlds, a base ISO of 2000, almost 17 stops of DR and 6K RAW with the Motion Mount.

                            Don't get me wrong, I love the F55. However I never use 8bit/10bit compressed codecs unless I absolutely have to, so I would go F55 with the RAW recorder.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Andrew Allsbury View Post
                              I would have to disagree with the F55's compressed codec being anywhere near as "good" (very subjective I know) as 5k Redcode RAW (@ any compression 6:1 or below) out of an Epic. The main issue with Red cameras in general is many people don't understand how to properly process/grade/denoise in post production and this ends up with a lot of very poor looking footage. Another thought...I know there are a few Dragon Epics roaming around for rent, this would give you the best of both worlds, a base ISO of 2000, almost 17 stops of DR and 6K RAW with the Motion Mount.

                              Don't get me wrong, I love the F55. However I never use 8bit/10bit compressed codecs unless I absolutely have to, so I would go F55 with the RAW recorder.
                              The main point of recommending the F55 was the global-shutter.
                              My Official Blackmagic Micro Footage: https://vimeo.com/155747487

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