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Make BMPCC4K truely Cinematic

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  • Make BMPCC4K truely Cinematic

    Hi,

    sorry if that topics have been already discuss tons of times, but i really don't find a perfect solution to my question.

    If i'm refering to maybe footage I saw (on vimeo/youtube but also in Film Festival and everywhere), i can really say i feel:
    - these cameras are really cinematic: RED/ALEXA/ AJA CION /URSA / BMCC/ BMPC4K (blackmagic production camera)/ / Sony F5 / Sony Venice / Digital bolex
    - these camera feel always like video: all DSLRs / Sony FS5 / Canon C100/C200/ EVA Panasonic and even the BMPCC4K

    I don't really understand why !
    I mean, i don't talk about global shutter, colors (which can be matched even if never as good as the good cinematic sensor) and neither about DOF (i have the same feeling with a high DOF on a cinema camera). I think the main thing is about sharpness.

    My question is: is that possible to get a truely cinematic feeling with the BMPCC4K ?
    Bmpcc4K is just a super GH5 (with good codecs) or is that an Ursa with a small sensor?

    The best footage i saw are with vintage lenses + diffusion filter such as Blackpromist, but that's not enough, i can say: that's a super video, but not cinematic. I don't know why. Please help me to get that feeling on a BMPCC4K, do i have to invest in a better diffusion filter like the Schneider TRUE-NET for instance? can you advice me ?

    thanks !!!!

    A
    Last edited by aliochaaliocha; 04-10-2019, 12:31 PM.

  • #2
    Can you post an example of both "video" and "cinematic" footage?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
      Can you post an example of both "video" and "cinematic" footage?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmuDLGCm7As
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkATCGopPgc&t=242s

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      • #4
        i can really say which on is Ursa/Alexa and which one is BMPCC4k in 1/4s, one is really video, the other really cinematic.
        Last edited by aliochaaliocha; 04-10-2019, 02:05 PM.

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        • #5
          Just from watching a few of the prores clip comparisons, they look very close. One does not look more “cinematic” than the other.

          The clips that look like “video” appear so because of the way the shot is. Small aperture making massive depth of field, playing at 30fps, uncontrolled lighting conditions, pedestrian composition, boring subjects, no purpose for shadows vs light and you will get video looking footage from any camera.

          The Alexa vs BMPCC4K white balance is way off and the subject is poorly lit. Bad comparison.

          You can shoot with an Alexa with the wrong settings and poor frame and make it look like trashy video footage, then get everything right on a cell phone and it will look more cinematic.

          Any time you see footage from a cinema camera and it unintentionally looks like “video” it’s because of the way it was shot, not the camera.

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          • #6
            thanks, so you don't see what i see i think because if URSA and BMPCC4K are in this video for you very close, i can recognize which one is which in 1/4 secondes, and not because of the DOF (the ursa can be with f11 and BMPCC4K with f2.8 or something with the same DOF that's the same: i can recognize VERY quickly which one is which and for me one is super pleasant (the URSA) the other one is just "OK", very cold image, too sharp, very video like (the BMPCC4K)

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            • #7
              When you say 1/4 seconds what do you mean, 1:40 in the first video?

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              • #8
                I spent some time with stills from the two cameras. The color science and gamma curve on the Pocket is much different than the UMP. It suffers from the same kind of greenish tint that the previous pocket sensor did. I roughly matched the two cameras, but it was actually pretty moderate in difficulty and the typical consumer will not be able to do it.

                I predict this is why the Pocket looks more video-ish to you. Straight out of camera the UMP needs much less correction to balance the image and apply a cinematic grade. The UMP is far superior in color science and this would be a no-brainer for me in picking it over the Pocket.

                Pocket Original vs UMP
                pocket small.jpgump small.jpg
                Pocket Corrected vs UMP
                corrected small.jpgump small.jpg

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
                  I spent some time with stills from the two cameras. The color science and gamma curve on the Pocket is much different than the UMP. It suffers from the same kind of greenish tint that the previous pocket sensor did. I roughly matched the two cameras, but it was actually pretty moderate in difficulty and the typical consumer will not be able to do it.

                  I predict this is why the Pocket looks more video-ish to you. Straight out of camera the UMP needs much less correction to balance the image and apply a cinematic grade. The UMP is far superior in color science and this would be a no-brainer for me in picking it over the Pocket.
                  Pretty much.
                  Cameras: Blackmagic Cinema Camera, Blackmagic Pocket Camera (x2), Panasonic GH2 (x2), Sony RX100 ii, Canon 6D, Canon T2i,
                  Mics: Sennheiser, AKG, Shure, Sanken, Audio-Technica, Audix
                  Lights: Every Chinese clone you can imagine

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                  • #10
                    your color correction is perfect, can you send it in 4K to see if i'm confused with the full definition?

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                    • #11
                      and if you want to publish your LUT i'm very interested !!

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                      • #12
                        Cinematic is not the camera. It's everything in front of the camera that either exists or it does not. I've seen cinematic iPhone footage.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chris Adler View Post
                          Cinematic is not the camera. It's everything in front of the camera that either exists or it does not. I've seen cinematic iPhone footage.
                          This is the most important offcourse, but camera and lenses have a great impact on the image. Everything is important. And I agree that some camera's are way more cinematic then others (like the Alexa, 5D III, F35, actual film...) On these camera's you need softer lenses, shooting with a sigma ART lens on a pocket 4K is for me anything but cinematic, but peoples opinions are different as I always see comments like" get a sigma art 18-35mm and youre set."

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                          • #14
                            Hollywood productions still put a grain pass on pretty much everything, it is part of the secret sauce. I think that helps take the edge off of anything that reads too sharp or video.

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                            • #15
                              In my opinion, if you are looking for a cinematic look, switch to the Ursa Mini Pro. The BMPCC 4k can produce "cinematic" images too, and it would be unfair to negate that. However, it is conceived more as a versatile tool (great for high quality documentaries, for example) that as the "ultimate" camera for cinema look. for that use , if you want the best from BM, pick a Ursa Mini Pro, you can buy a used unit for cheap or rent it for peanuts.
                              The color science, the extra DR, as well as the highlight rolloff will give you a digital thick negative surprisingly close to the Alexa.

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