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Make BMPCC4K truely Cinematic

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  • #61
    Originally posted by dop16mm View Post
    Now we we are arguing minute points that most people can't even see, get over it.
    The difference in color science between cameras is not a minute point. You are truly ignorant if you think so.

    When a client wants something to look a certain way, and you have to spend tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for colorists to fix and match the footage because you chose a camera that "nobody can tell the difference" and you tell your investors to "get over it" good luck in your career.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by aliochaaliocha View Post
      Hi,



      My question is: is that possible to get a truely cinematic feeling with the BMPCC4K ?


      A
      No!
      Not to my eyes, but who cares?


      This looks cinematic to you?
      https://vimeo.com/115040410


      And this?
      https://vimeo.com/140559158

      Or maybe this one?
      https://vimeo.com/267366457

      Now, watch these:
      https://vimeo.com/323282577
      https://vimeo.com/147413555

      Make your thoughts

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      • #63
        Can something smell blue? Is cinematic perhaps a term that is more broad than simply the look? Are we done yet?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by robbing View Post
          Make your thoughts
          The 35mm test and 1969 short film both look like film... but not very "cinematic".

          The Alexa skateboarding one is a good example of the Alexa looking like video. Good camera work... but nothing cinematic or film-like at all. Could have told me it was a GH4 and I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

          The Alla clip has a few cinematic shots... but then looks like they started playing with the shutter speed... and looks like video in those areas. I don't care what anyone says DON'T USE STUPID SHUTTER SPEEDS! lol

          Edit: Another thought on the Alexa clip... it's interesting that even where you can tell the dynamics range is actually very high (under the bridge shots)... it STILL looks like video. Kind of makes the point that even high dynamic range doesn't automatically make something "cinematic" either.
          Last edited by Chet; 04-20-2019, 10:17 AM.

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          • #65
            Wow, those 35mm videos have such beautiful motion cadence. It’s so natural and lifelike. I’ve never seen anything digital truly replicate that motion.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
              Wow, those 35mm videos have such beautiful motion cadence. It’s so natural and lifelike. I’ve never seen anything digital truly replicate that motion.
              I love it too, specially 1969 short. film doesn't look fake.
              But shooting film is an expensive nightmare. Luckily we've digital getting better color science and dynamic range.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Chet View Post
                The 35mm test and 1969 short film both look like film... but not very "cinematic".

                The Alexa skateboarding one is a good example of the Alexa looking like video. Good camera work... but nothing cinematic or film-like at all. Could have told me it was a GH4 and I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

                The Alla clip has a few cinematic shots... but then looks like they started playing with the shutter speed... and looks like video in those areas. I don't care what anyone says DON'T USE STUPID SHUTTER SPEEDS! lol

                Edit: Another thought on the Alexa clip... it's interesting that even where you can tell the dynamics range is actually very high (under the bridge shots)... it STILL looks like video. Kind of makes the point that even high dynamic range doesn't automatically make something "cinematic" either.
                Automatic cinematic!... LOL

                Dynamic range matters to me.

                another skate video, s16mm kinda Log look
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGLoIFJs0sg

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by robbing View Post
                  Automatic cinematic!... LOL

                  Dynamic range matters to me.
                  Yea, me too. But that's not the point I was making. I was saying that even WITH the high dynamic range of the Alexa it still looked like video (or maybe a GH4) in that clip. The "cinematic look" is allot of factors. Good dynamic range is necessary... but it isn't magic.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
                    The difference in color science between cameras is not a minute point. You are truly ignorant if you think so.

                    When a client wants something to look a certain way, and you have to spend tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars for colorists to fix and match the footage because you chose a camera that "nobody can tell the difference" and you tell your investors to "get over it" good luck in your career.
                    Color science matters, it's the modern film stock. But, tens of thousands of dollars of extra work color matching different cameras? That sounds very hyperbolic to me. A good colorist would not be that inept, it's not that hard to match different cameras unless the footage is wildly off. Something more realistic, like an extra few hours of work when you're on a low post-budget and the rate is around $500/hour and up.
                    Darren Hartman
                    Asyn Film | Banana Stand Media

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Asyndeton View Post
                      That sounds very hyperbolic to me. A good colorist would not be that inept, it's not that hard to match different cameras unless the footage is wildly off. Something more realistic, like an extra few hours of work when you're on a low post-budget and the rate is around $500/hour and up.
                      Correct. At work when color grading commercial projects... it takes about a day for the colorist to balance everything. You can't even tell what shots are Alexa or Blackmagic anymore (we frequently use both)... unless, you're looking at the highlight-range in specific shots.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Chet View Post
                        Yea, me too. But that's not the point I was making. I was saying that even WITH the high dynamic range of the Alexa it still looked like video (or maybe a GH4) in that clip. The "cinematic look" is allot of factors. Good dynamic range is necessary... but it isn't magic.
                        Yeah, I got it. However dynamic range is part of the magic together with the color and contrast response. A flat image isn't a great example of dynamic range.
                        Alexa tried to hide additive color science, others cameras just don't care about it. But all these still digital and looks digital as soon as the frames start rolling in the screen.

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                        • #72
                          Guys, if i want to go anamorphic on the bmpcc4k for trully cinematic, what set up should i go, i like it a lot the isco mini red 2x but i dont know if it will work on then bmpcc4k. How could i calculate the final aspect ratio? I know that then bmpcc4k hasnt anamorphic mode but i think could try to deesqueze on the small hd focus.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
                            Wow, those 35mm videos have such beautiful motion cadence. Itís so natural and lifelike. Iíve never seen anything digital truly replicate that motion.
                            Digital Bolex
                            Darren Scott
                            Freelance Director/Director of Photography


                            https://vimeo.com/jambredzvisions/videos

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                            • #74
                              aliochaaliocha, From camera technical side Film "look"consists of:

                              - dynamic range
                              - color
                              - highlights rolloff
                              - highlights halation
                              - grain
                              - flares, scratches, dust particles and other unique film stock emulsion related random artifacts.
                              - micro shake
                              - motion cadence (this term is actually very unclear and may produce a lot of speculations, but from my personal opinion motion cadence consists of near global shutter and unique film motion blur shape which is impossible to emulate with digital sensors electronic shutters)

                              True emulation is complicated. But if you just want to make P4k look less like stock footage for corporate presentation you can add layer of real film gran, add some softness, add film emulation LUT, don't overexpose, use OLPF filter if possible, recover some dynamic range from shadows, grade in log timeline and so on... And the man thing - nail your style, shoot something cinematic, try to feel when things around became cinematic.

                              For example take a look at Revdesign Industries videos https://vimeo.com/forrestschultz he use BMPCC and have a nice progress in this almost filmic look.
                              Last edited by shijan; 04-26-2019, 07:40 PM.
                              All my custom made accessories for BMMCC/BMMSC now available here https://lavky.com/radioproektor/

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                              • #75
                                Stanley placed vintage panty hose as it has unique fabric over the lens

                                And that’s a shout to a real baller mother fucker dp stu

                                In front of the lens rocks

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