Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Make BMPCC4K truely Cinematic

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by aliochaaliocha View Post
    Hi,

    sorry if that topics have been already discuss tons of times, but i really don't find a perfect solution to my question.

    If i'm refering to maybe footage I saw (on vimeo/youtube but also in Film Festival and everywhere), i can really say i feel:
    - these cameras are really cinematic: RED/ALEXA/ AJA CION /URSA / BMCC/ BMPC4K (blackmagic production camera)/ / Sony F5 / Sony Venice / Digital bolex
    - these camera feel always like video: all DSLRs / Sony FS5 / Canon C100/C200/ EVA Panasonic and even the BMPCC4K

    I don't really understand why !
    I mean, i don't talk about global shutter, colors (which can be matched even if never as good as the good cinematic sensor) and neither about DOF (i have the same feeling with a high DOF on a cinema camera). I think the main thing is about sharpness.

    My question is: is that possible to get a truely cinematic feeling with the BMPCC4K ?
    Bmpcc4K is just a super GH5 (with good codecs) or is that an Ursa with a small sensor?

    The best footage i saw are with vintage lenses + diffusion filter such as Blackpromist, but that's not enough, i can say: that's a super video, but not cinematic. I don't know why. Please help me to get that feeling on a BMPCC4K, do i have to invest in a better diffusion filter like the Schneider TRUE-NET for instance? can you advice me ?
    In a nut shell, expectations.

    If you have an Arri camera on our shoot, it usually means there's some budget, and so therefore expectations are high. This then increases the overall production value of the shoot. So the camera is more an indication of the production values than the actual camera itself. If you can't produce cinema quality image from a Pocket 4k, it has WAY more to do with the environment it's being used in than the camera itself. After all, it's simply a tool. A very modern and capable one at that.

    Comment


    • #47
      I've seen poorly shot film that looks like video. It's the user, not the camera.
      Darren Hartman
      Asyn Film | Banana Stand Media

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Asyndeton View Post
        I've seen poorly shot film that looks like video. It's the user, not the camera.
        Well, it's one part of the puzzle and like all others, it does matter to some extent.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Asyndeton View Post
          I've seen poorly shot film that looks like video. It's the user, not the camera.
          True to some degree, but not absolute. If this were the case entirely it wouldn't matter what camera productions shot on and Arri wouldn't be the standard.

          Comment


          • #50
            It's not the camera, and it hasn't been for several generations now.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by dbp View Post
              It's not the camera, and it hasn't been for several generations now.
              Okay go shoot a blockbuster on a t2i then.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
                Okay go shoot a blockbuster on a t2i then.
                You can, you give up post control, but if you are careful in camera. Many people prefer the out of the box canon look and can't match that in resolve no matter how hard they try.
                I have a 7d short that in the final YouTube version looks better than most of the stuff I shot on the original pocket.

                Comment


                • #53
                  @dop16mm please show us that

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
                    Okay go shoot a blockbuster on a t2i then.
                    You could, easily. Provided you had top level set design, lighting/grip gear, costumes, actors, locations, etc etc.

                    a t2i with those will absolutely exceed an Alexa mini with typical amateur skill and means.


                    because those things are magnitudes more important than the camera.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
                      True to some degree, but not absolute. If this were the case entirely it wouldn't matter what camera productions shot on and Arri wouldn't be the standard.
                      Kind of... the Alexa got also a lot of support though because it was weighted and designed to work with existing support/rig equipment and operators/DPs were familiar with the size and shape. "Classical" film crews were able to adopt the Alexa allot easier than competitors. Besides that, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a properly shot original BMCC and Alexa in 75% of situations. I've even done commercial projects where that older 4k BMPC actually looked allot better than Alexa in certain shots (I'm sure resolution played a part though). Remember that Great Camera Shootout from 2012... where the GH2 was actually picked as the best looking? The Alexa is a very good camera. But there was never anything "magical" about it. I've seen a TON of terrible "video-looking" projects shot on it. Like others have pointed out in the thread... the Alexa has such a good reputation for imaging because it's mostly used by really talented crews with a budget.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Not to mention that camera rental is such a blip for a large production, that you might as well get the extra quality and ease of use that crews are used to.

                        But, to illustrate the main point.

                        If measuringbetween 1 and 10. 10 being a magnificent hollywood production, and 1 being the lowest grade amateur crap heap.

                        A top calibre hollywood blockbuster with an Alexa is a 10
                        A top calibre hollywood blockbuster with a bmpcc is at worst, a 9.

                        A production with mediocre talent, no real production design, limited lighting/grip/sound gear and (ESPECIALLY) mediocre writing and acting that's shot with an Alexa is a 2.

                        I would bet my life that if the ONLY thing you swapped out of a grade A film was a camera, the difference... or lack of difference, would really shock people. But you'll never see it because as I said above, those productions will go with Alexa because why not if it's pennies to them and easier.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          We are getting off topic. The topic isn’t if a BMPCC4K is adequate for cinema. The topic is can you achieve the look of cameras with a better image with the BMPCC4K, and how. That question has been answered as far back as the first page.

                          If I were a mod this thread would’ve been closed already.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by dbp View Post
                            Not to mention that camera rental is such a blip for a large production, that you might as well get the extra quality and ease of use that crews are used to.

                            But, to illustrate the main point.

                            If measuringbetween 1 and 10. 10 being a magnificent hollywood production, and 1 being the lowest grade amateur crap heap.

                            A top calibre hollywood blockbuster with an Alexa is a 10
                            A top calibre hollywood blockbuster with a bmpcc is at worst, a 9.

                            A production with mediocre talent, no real production design, limited lighting/grip/sound gear and (ESPECIALLY) mediocre writing and acting that's shot with an Alexa is a 2.

                            I would bet my life that if the ONLY thing you swapped out of a grade A film was a camera, the difference... or lack of difference, would really shock people. But you'll never see it because as I said above, those productions will go with Alexa because why not if it's pennies to them and easier.
                            You would loose a lot of time shooting with the pocket 4K against the Alexa. I would bet the cost of the production would be higher if you were shooting with a pocket 4K to compensate the lack of DR and highlight rolloff, colorgrading... Furthermore if you look at at camera side by sides, you def see a big difference in image quality between the pocket and the alexa. And I def have disliked movie because of their weird look. For example "collateral" or "public enemies", which stars A list actors and production design but still the image is off...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              https://vimeo.com/59727570 Shows what a T2i is capable of. In 2013 shot some b-roll once for a feature film using a 550D just for quick cutaways, the main camera was a Red Epic. No one noticed. It's honestly what you put in front of the camera that matters most.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                The general audience is far more accepting of whatever look a film is than camera nerds. Most people have motion smoothing video look on their TVs and don't see the problem. Some of us can see when a big movie cuts in a GoPro or dslr because it sticks out like a sore thumb, most don't notice don't care. Since blackmagic small cameras have been out, these inserts have been much more seamless and harder to spot, they may still require some work to match the A camera, but matching is possible. But here's the thing, if you only use the small camera, and don't try to match it to the much more expensive studio camera, if you tell a good story and it looks good enough, people will not care what you shot it on. Spend your time worrying about sound, get that flawless because that's what people notice. If you have wind rumble or AC hum, if your adr is out of sync people will notice and make your production seem cheap. In 2019 sound is much more a defining factor of a pro production than whatever you might shoot on. Make friends with good sound people, on set and post, this is what will get you a real movie.

                                Digital cinema has come a long way in the past decade or so. Season 4 of Fear the Walking Dead has a beat up DVX as a plot point and shows footage on occasion, and it is a stark contrast to the Alexa the show is shot on. But many of us probably remember when it was the thing to get, the first video camera the kind of looked like film, it was a big deal. We are so spoiled now when even the OG Pocket can look very close to the A camera on most shows. Now we we are arguing minute points that most people can't even see, get over it.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X