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  • #61
    Hi dustylense, my point was not anything negative about the camera or Chinese company, what I meant that BMD is not sleeping, and also they know how to put so much in a small package and do it well.
    BTW I have just ordered FOTGA 500II FF and Rails

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    • #62
      Originally posted by rawCAM35 View Post
      Hi dustylense, my point was not anything negative about the camera or Chinese company, what I meant that BMD is not sleeping, and also they know how to put so much in a small package and do it well.
      BTW I have just ordered FOTGA 500II FF and Rails
      I realize that. My point is though that the Chinese are to be taken very seriously. It's like they are out for world domination. THey just passed the USA in world trading and there is really nothing to stop them from continuing that.

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      • #63
        I agree on almost all points. Tech support and customer service are going to be on the bad side, but quality will probably be a little over average. Either way, it's going to push other people to make products with competitive advantages.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Nikola Ovcharski View Post



          The camera and its modules remind me enough of RED to wonder if there was some industrial espionage at some point. I seem to remember somone realated to RED was suddenly involved in leaking/selling infomation and Jannard was pissed about it. Either way this is a Chinese copy of the RED cameras, thats pretty clear. What often happens is western companies use Chinese factories to maufacture parts and they once they are proficient at it make it and stick their badge on it. In some ways people are geeting ripped off what they pay $30,000 for a RED camera when they were probably made in chinese factories at least the parts for peanuts. So in that sense thinking the product is not as good quality of copied products might be a mistake. It might just be a RED with a different badge....

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          • #65
            Conspiracy! Spies and moles!
            For sure Bowman. It's called reverse engineering. I agree with you for the most part. I'm sure the RED is chomping at the bit after seeing the similarities going on here. And there's really nothing they can do about it. But I remember when the Epic was first shipping, a very early serial number was stolen. Not sure if it was ever found or recovered. Hmmmmmm....

            It does in fact smell fishy when you look at the A La' Carte menu above. Forget the photo mock up as that's blatant. But still, I really don't care. It's just another capture device.

            2 hdmi ports and only carry a 720p signal out is where I stopped in my tracks.

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            • #66
              its doesn't need an out there conspiracy its simply how it works in Asia from music to cars and everything in between, I live in Asia I know. And its done shamlessly. Western companies are stupid enought to let asian companies ie their competitors make their products and often hand over rights to patents etc to have access to markets then they deserve what they get. Eventually Chinese companies will throw western companies out. For all the praise Steve Jobs got and still gets he seemed surprised when Samsung a major component maker for apple suddenly turned around and made a copycat product. Thats a schoolboy error in my mind.

              Its funny if you replace Kine with RED and mini with Scarlet/Epic the above spec seems even more famililar.

              Of course what this also means is its only a matter of time before we see a Chinese BM Cinema Camera....
              Last edited by bowman; 02-11-2013, 08:54 PM.

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              • #67
                You both are on the wrong track, bowman & dustylense. You may be stuck at the end of the twentieth century. But, I assure you China has moved to the twenty-first. Their company is working off of a collaborative effort. Their sensor manufacturer has a history in space cameras and industrial applications, and another partner has a post company. Which is why the first S35 camera was so tied to the Cineform codec and their post production suite. But, like any modern Chinese company, they move fast. They saw the BMCC camera announced at $3000 USD. And figured they had a better option with their S35 sensor and no crop factor. So they ditch the onboard Cineform transform, remove the active cooling and release a chip in a box that will fit in the palm of your hand for $3000. That's not espionage that's just good business and responding to the market.

                While you are on your xenophobic little tirade, think about the possibility that this could just be a committed group of cinema people who do not want to buy an Australian, Japanese, or American digital cinema camera. They just want to be the first company to build their own digital cinema camera for their country.

                Jon7athan Studios

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by bowman View Post
                  In some ways people are geeting ripped off what they pay $30,000 for a RED camera when they were probably made in chinese factories at least the parts for peanuts.
                  One must consider the incredible amount of time and money that is spent on research and development. Just because manufacturing costs are low, doesn't equate to total costs being low. It's easy for someone to pick up the design and copy. But, it takes blood, sweat, and tears to actually design and develop an innovative product...

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Jon7athan View Post
                    You both are on the wrong track, bowman & dustylense. You may be stuck at the end of the twentieth century. But, I assure you China has moved to the twenty-first. Their company is working off of a collaborative effort. Their sensor manufacturer has a history in space cameras and industrial applications, and another partner has a post company. Which is why the first S35 camera was so tied to the Cineform codec and their post production suite. But, like any modern Chinese company, they move fast. They saw the BMCC camera announced at $3000 USD. And figured they had a better option with their S35 sensor and no crop factor. So they ditch the onboard Cineform transform, remove the active cooling and release a chip in a box that will fit in the palm of your hand for $3000. That's not espionage that's just good business and responding to the market.

                    While you are on your xenophobic little tirade, think about the possibility that this could just be a committed group of cinema people who do not want to buy an Australian, Japanese, or American digital cinema camera. They just want to be the first company to build their own digital cinema camera for their country.

                    Whoa, calm down there! If you maybe read a few posts of mine prior, you will actually see that I acknowledge China as a big player. I talk about their rail system and their trade power. Hey Buddy, I've been to China FOUR times. I understand exactly where they stand in the world. More than 3/4 of my clients have work in China. All architects and builders. They have projects flying off the shelves. Why are they hiring US architects???? Why are they Hiring US builders? WHy are they hiring US designers? Lot's of work. Not just China either. China make the US look like cavemen when it comes to their rail systems.

                    I glad KineRaw mini is made. I really don't care what it looks like. It just so happens to look like an Epic/Scarlet. Period! Who else thinks that? I mean, really! But I don't care. Two guys that will care are Jim and Jarred and company at RED.
                    Scarlet-X_front01-290x290.jpg
                    KineRAW-MINI-With-Grip-and-Canon-Lens-2-e1360551335354.jpg

                    26053324.jpg

                    More power to them, Jon7athan. I have interest in the camera. I've already said that. But there are people who care when it's blatant. A Coca-Cola "can" looks exactly identical to a Pepsi "can" and some have to taste test to tell the difference between the products. So even if the KineMini s35 were 3D print molded exactly like the Epic, I'd still say, "Let's see what they each taste like". And to me, that's all that matters.

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                    • #70
                      I also find it funny you post a video where we see the KineFinity, and in nearly every shot there's an Alexa. WHY?..... And even so, I wouldn't care a bit if the Kine 35 beat the crap out of the Alexa's image.
                      And the bottom line is, how cool is it that there are people with cameras all over the world doing the things we like to talk about here?

                      But when it comes to legalities for some, can I remind you of the Litepanels debacle?

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                      • #71
                        Does anyone know where or when I can see the samples of this camera?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Jon7athan View Post
                          That's not espionage that's just good business and responding to the market...
                          I agree, the world is actually getting smaller in terms of business.

                          It was only a few decades ago that China got a taste of Western Civilizations culture.

                          I believe any time you put that many resources behind something you will eventually get it right.

                          Who's to say that there isnt any smart men in the room there.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by bumkicho View Post
                            Does anyone know where or when I can see the samples of this camera?
                            Kinefinity is taking pre-orders for this camera, the Kinefinity KineRAW Mini, now with deliveries scheduled for end of March. The company will be at NAB the first week of April in booth C12813. They are asking for footage requests that their field shooters can compile and they can show at NAB. Samples of the original KineRAW S35, like the BTS Footage of the shootout with an Arri Alexa and Canon 5D MK III above, I found on one of the Chinese versions of facebook and youtube, weibo and youku.

                            Dan Hudgins, from San Francisco, has a KineRAW S35 and has footage he is working on posting to vimeo. Hit him up on Vimeo, or dvxuser where he has been contributing to threads about the Kinefinity cameras.
                            Last edited by Jon7athan; 02-12-2013, 11:47 AM. Reason: punctuation
                            Jon7athan Studios

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                            • #74
                              well now no one can complain when they don't have a job and the economy eventually implodes after years of running on fumes.... Good luck guys, me? I live in Asia and have beautiful asian wife. Enjoy your icrap that sucked the jobs out of your countries. Someone said I was xenophobic well they are wrong its the West I've lost all respect for not Asians.


                              CONTENT EDITED - PERSONAL ATTACK http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=349

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by ianim8 View Post
                                I agree, the world is actually getting smaller in terms of business.

                                It was only a few decades ago that China got a taste of Western Civilizations culture.

                                I believe any time you put that many resources behind something you will eventually get it right.

                                Who's to say that there isnt any smart men in the room there.

                                Their is no doubt there are clever people in the room, I would say its racist to even ask the question. The Chinese had complex societies and relatively high technology when we in Europe were practically living in caves. But what people in the west don't grasp is that China like other movers in Asia like Korea and Japan are extremely xenophobic. And while they believe and welcome the global economy their thinking generally is not so we can all walk together and sing in a Pepsi commercial but they want to beat us. Business is not a charity, companies and countries want to win and be number 1. The west has forgotten that capitalist edge and there will be a wake up when they realize they aren't the leaders in the world anymore.

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