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  • #31
    Originally posted by Phil View Post
    Just a Red SSD for 1hr of compressed jpeg is near $2k & to play it you need to fork out another $5k ($7k before you even buy it) but I guess that will be a hidden cost of a "scarlet mini". I think it will probably come, but they will obviously need to upgrade the big scarlet first. Which gives BM a good years head start at least.
    Very good point Phil. It's the extras that will get you. I would think that any camera Red makes will use the same accessories they have for current Scarlet and Epic cameras. So you're probably right, even a "scarlet mini" owner will be paying Epic accessory prices.

    You can get by without a $5k red rocket card, and even have realtime playback on a decent machine in Premiere, but if you're often transcoding hours of footage you're going to really want the card.

    I don't know what to expect from the cinema DNG files from the BMC. Are we expecting better performance with playback and rendering than Redcode Raw?
    www.motionplaces.com
    andrewjulian

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Jimmy Moss View Post
      so I don't see why they could not just remove the fixed lens and sell it as an interchangeable system. So what I'm saying is they already have it... they just don't sell it.
      In theory I totally agree with this. They spent years developing it, they have it close to ready, so why not ship it?

      In reality, there's a big problem with it -- that Jim has gone on record as stating that anything below 4K is not what they consider suitable for professionals now, and what made sense three years ago no longer makes sense now. So it would be a pretty big about-face for them to go ahead and release their 3K Scarlet. Even so, I wish they would, obviously the interest in the BMC has shown that there's a market for such a product, but -- I doubt they will.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Barry Green View Post
        In theory I totally agree with this. They spent years developing it, they have it close to ready, so why not ship it?

        In reality, there's a big problem with it -- that Jim has gone on record as stating that anything below 4K is not what they consider suitable for professionals now, and what made sense three years ago no longer makes sense now. So it would be a pretty big about-face for them to go ahead and release their 3K Scarlet. Even so, I wish they would, obviously the interest in the BMC has shown that there's a market for such a product, but -- I doubt they will.
        Jim has proven he's willing to go in another direction without letting anyone know until it's done. He's made the "4K is the future" and "1080p is a mistake" arguments a little too often and a little too loudly to turn back now. I seriously doubt they would release anything that would cut into their pro rental market. Which (at least partially) a BMDCC competitor would certainly do.

        I like the options BMD has put in this camera. I have a friend with a Scarlet. It gives great images. But the sheer amount of cash he had to fork over just to a) get his camera to fully work and b) be able to work with his footage in post was enough to keep me renting until I buy from BMD. And these days I'm not sure how many of the former RED faithful Jannard and Co. would win back by releasing the interchangeable Scarlet.

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        • #34
          The idea that RED and BM are in some way in competition is fictitious at best. No-one who shots an EPIC is likely to look at the BM cameras as anything more than a crash cam or B cam.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by James Martin View Post
            And these days I'm not sure how many of the former RED faithful Jannard and Co. would win back by releasing the interchangeable Scarlet.
            I think this is a valid point - a lot of the internet feels bridges were burnt when the Scarlet X came out. I still think there are some amazing things about the 2/3" Scarlet, but it ain't gonna happen.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Gwangjuboy View Post
              The idea that RED and BM are in some way in competition is fictitious at best. No-one who shots an EPIC is likely to look at the BM cameras as anything more than a crash cam or B cam.
              still, the BMC has uncompressed recording...which can make difference when compared to a 6:1, or 10:1 compression.
              And also it would be good for a "telephoto" B-cam. (if you use a canon 500mm lens, it will be 650mm effectively on the epic, but 1150mm on the BMC)
              C300 review | http://carousel.hu/c300/

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Gwangjuboy View Post
                The idea that RED and BM are in some way in competition is fictitious at best. No-one who shots an EPIC is likely to look at the BM cameras as anything more than a crash cam or B cam.
                You're right they are serving different parts of the market right now, but who's to say in the future BMD won't release a camera that steps up into scarlet territory or Red releases one similar to the BMC. Of course it's all just speculation right now in the off topic section of the forum.
                www.motionplaces.com
                andrewjulian

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                • #38
                  As much as I love the BM camera concept its not comparable to RED. In essence BM put someone elses sensor in a box recording to their recorders. You can't compare that to RED who even make their own lenses. I know its the same product but I'm not convinced camera companies are in as much competition as people like to think. Sure they are aware of the competition but mainly companies like RED and Arri are focused on making great products and both can be successful in the same market. I think the whole Nikon Canon type rivalry is not as big in the pro market. RED is competing it seems against itself more than anyone else.

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                  • #39
                    I don't see why Red making their own lenses is an argument... And I don't think they do their sensor themselves either.
                    I think the BMC is gonna compete as long as the main concern is IQ. And for me it already compete with the Scarlet (it has less resolution but - on paper - a better dynamic range).
                    And I would be very surprised if at one point, Red refuse to enter the sub-5000$ market.

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                    • #40
                      They design their own sensors and they already are out of the sub $5000 market, thats what pissed everyone off.


                      Even if BM camera was a better camera than Scarlet my point is these companies don't plot everyday how to shake of the competion, they get on with making cameras that are better and better. When you have professionals where the cost of the camera is only a small fraction of the budget its all down to the preference of the director and DP. If you want to talk competition at this point Arri is the main competition to RED.

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                      • #41
                        Yes you're right, Red and Arri already have way better cameras for high end market, so no discussion here.
                        But I'm not getting a Scarlet because of the Blackmagic camera, so there's is a small market in common I guess...

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