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Proper processing, upres-ing, and the future 5 years of resolution

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  • Proper processing, upres-ing, and the future 5 years of resolution

    Hi Everyone!
    First time posting, long time lurker on dvx, reduser, and here. The BMCC sure sounds great, I have to admit. I am an avid DSLR shooter, and I like to embrace the best workflows for my situation, which is why raw output is always a great thing.

    The ignorant debate of 'resolution' between BMCC and R3D is usually futile since 4:2:2 is always subject to your debayer of choice. With R3Ds, there are a good many caveats, same with BMCC. The one thing that struck me was the latitude straight out of camera from the BMCC at $3k. I have taken some of Kholi's DNGs and played with them, an done some testing.

    If there's one thing certain, it's that later this year and for the foreseeable future, 4K (or QHD) will be in strong demand. This being said, I have to go back to how resolution is in the eye of the debayer algorithm. At 2.5k, the AHD debayer is very good, very sharp on the footage, but as a VFX artist, its not super great.
    With R3Ds, I am afforded the ability to work out of the box at a decent 4096, or pretty decent 5120 from EPIC. But if anyone gives you a true opinion from checking out the footage, R3Ds debayer sort of soft. For the BMCC, besides the sensor stop black highlight problem, the blue channel takes some unneccesary wrath from the debayer.

    In a YCbCr look of a DNG from BMCC, the color info straight out of the camera is great. So I took the footage, did a little resampling of the blue channel, broke it out to YCbCr, resampled the color information, recombined, then did a proper dithered lambda scale, then downres'd to 4096*2301. It is visually on par with the original, but at 4k. And I hope there arent a ton of super-die-hard-red-users on here, but to make the 4K proper upres from BMCC look like a normal R3D, I had to blur the BMCC 4k upres

    Take a look. Below is a crop of an image from Kholi, in Nuke, viewing the blue channel. Excuse the meh GIF color sampling...



    from...



    I know it seems 'stupid' to 'upres' to 4K from a camera that shoots 2.5K, but if you're like me and dont have $30-50k for a proper Red setup, i think this will work just fine for me. 4K DPXs run about 37MB/frame, but if you EDL your shots in and run this with 8 frame handles, its not that much storage on a short film, and you can master all the way down to HD and SD from a 12 bit 4K source. Sounds pretty future proofed to me.
    The only reason I would raise this is because just as RED did to film developing and shooting (high price rentals and expensive development fees VS $25k camera bodies with reusable data), I believe that the cheaper route can still survive in the fight, and make a point that it's about story and characters, not the most K out of the box.

    Thanks for listening!

    Here's one more...



    from...


  • #2
    This is very exciting. Ensures no loss of quality during the post stage. Deakins talked about uprezzing Alexa footage (2.8K) to 4K master for Skyfall.

    Can you explain what this means:

    "So I took the footage, did a little resampling of the blue channel, broke it out to YCbCr, resampled the color information, recombined, then did a proper dithered lambda scale, then downres'd to 4096*2301."


    The first thing I though of when I heard about uprezzing was to simply double the x and y. Is that a part of this? Adn then you "downres'd" to the desired 4k standard?
    Filmmaker - Author
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    • #3
      Originally posted by donald View Post
      H And I hope there aren't a ton of super-die-hard-red-users on here, but to make the 4K proper upres from BMCC look like a normal R3D, I had to blur the BMCC 4k upres

      T
      Love that statement.

      LOL, post that over at RedUser and they probably gonna feed your head to the crocodiles fort that.

      Can only Nuke doing that properly, or is it possible with other software?
      Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

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      • #4
        Hi Joe.

        The blue channel needed to be fixed based on a less than amazing debayer, It was done in linear colorspace and only on the blue channel.
        The luminance from the footage is almost flawless in terms of quality. Therefore I changed the colorspace from linear (in nuke) to YCbCr, which is Luminance, Blue color difference and Red color difference. This was I can keep the luminance more or less untouched, and treat the color channels alone. I used the chroma from a denoised version of the DNG, and then recombined with the luminance.

        In nuke, there is a scaling tool that isnt just double X and double Y, it does a little more sampling than that. It doubles the resolution, so you're left with 4864 horizontal, and from there I do a slight dither on the lower luminance, and downres to 4096 horizontal. If you look at the first GIF, the two 'harsh' looking images are the untouched DNG, and then the DNG at 4k with a 'normal' resize to 4k. The better image is after the proper upresing.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Frank Glencairn View Post
          Love that statement.

          LOL, post that over at RedUser and they probably gonna feed your head to the crocodiles fort that.

          Can only Nuke doing that properly, or is it possible with other software?


          Ha. Sometimes when getting footage turnover, I look at it and have to put down the 'red' colored kool-aid and say... why is the debayer so soft... at 5K? At the end of the day it resolves to HD and 2k DCP just fine, but still, it makes me wonder why BMCC isnt feared greatly. Sometimes it seems that price:elitism.

          Other out of the box softwares will be able to upres, but it will just upres the problems with the debayer. The reason I like doing it in Nuke is I know what's going in, how its being treated, and what ends up going out. TVIScale is an operator I've only seen in nuke, but it may be in other packages.

          For the common shooter, I make no claims that this is necessary at all. But for anyone wanting to master at high res and have it look pretty good, I'd recommend.

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          • #6
            I have confirmed that the optical low pass filter on the red is a little to strong for my tastes. Therefore I just removed it. This changes the whole game.

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            • #7
              Holy....

              Hey Donald, any chance we could see (or download) an exported 4k up-rezzed image with color using your technique?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RyGuy View Post
                Holy....

                Hey Donald, any chance we could see (or download) an exported 4k up-rezzed image with color using your technique?
                Sure!

                https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0Bz...xEaVYxQTA/edit

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                • #9
                  Donald,

                  Does this method require Nuke, or can a lot of programs do it?

                  And can it be automated for a one button 2k in / 4k out? Or is it reliant on examining every clip independently?
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                  • #10
                    Whoa... Slight contrast and sharpening added to both. I was able to add a little more sharpening to the 4k version. Looks like this may really help with moire?


                    skin_ext_w_orig.jpgskin_ext_w_4K.jpg

                    Edit: Dang, photoshop exported different sizes. Too lazy/busy to figure out how to export both so they apear the same size on the thread. But on my computer the original 2.5k shows significant moire and aliasing vs the 4k uprezzed version.

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                    • #11
                      It requires nuke, but the once the setup is working and generalized, you can command line execute it with a little Python to run all the clips you need. As I said earlier, you'd only want to do this for mastering or VFX output, and only on the edit, not all of the raw footage.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RyGuy View Post
                        Whoa... Slight contrast and sharpening added to both. I was able to add a little more sharpening to the 4k version. Looks like this may really help with moire?

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]2042[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2043[/ATTACH]
                        It helps a little with moire, that's for sure. Not a one-two punch, but in most situations. I'm still trying to find more diverse types of footage, but will be testing it whenever I receive my MFT.

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                        • #13
                          I did a test on her hair, and these really were helped by the conversion.



                          I uploaded the original and a 4K proper upres to the drive (https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0Bz...xEaVYxQTA/edit) named two_girls

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                          • #14
                            That is awesome. Thanks for the post! Really exciting with the potential!

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                            • #15
                              Is there a reason why your examples are monochrome? Just wondering.

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