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Finally a native DNG editing solution for Premiere

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Wuudi View Post

    Is there a demo available to try out the speed of the realtime rendering (with democlips/dng's from other people as I'm still waiting for my camera
    http://19lights.com/wp/downloads/
    Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Wuudi View Post
      That's wonderful John, exactly what I want. Editing in Premiere, then just opening the timeline in Resolve and working seamlessly in it.
      And for AfterFX, there are some crazy clips (super highlight recovery) I think AdobeRaw does better, so linking them into an AfterFX composition I get AdobeRaw for those, tadaaaa

      Is there a demo available to try out the speed of the realtime rendering (with democlips/dng's from other people as I'm still waiting for my camera
      Np. You should definitely try both Adobe Camera RAW and Ginger HDR, test for yourself, and decide which one's better. I'm biased, of course. (-:

      But I'd keep in mind that most of what Adobe Camera RAW "recovers" from the highlight is good data that was previously thrown away. In the DNG files there is a tag (0xc62A) called "Baseline Exposure". In the Afterglow shot #1 it was set to 2.4. That means that when you open the file, Adobe Camera RAW is increasing the exposure by 2.4 stops, which throws away that highlight information. So when you drop the exposure or enable highlight recovery there isn't some magical technique that recovers those highlights. Rather, it's just giving you the data that was already there. And it seems to vary by ISO. So the 5th shot (with the sparklers) is set to 3.4.

      I have a different approach. Rather then playing a little game of "guess the actual exposure of your image", Ginger HDR just gives you the full range, and always gives you the fully recovered highlights. Then you can tweak it with levels, curves, etc. If you really want me to apply that exposure to the image, that's possible if enough people ask for it.

      BTW, there is nothing wrong with Adobe's approach. Technically, Adobe's approach is correct and my approach is wrong. The DNG file says "bump the exposure by 2.4 stops" and so Adobe Camera RAW does what it should do. But you guys are sophisticated enough to understand the value of recovering your highlights.
      Last edited by John Hable; 01-04-2013, 03:11 PM. Reason: Need to learn how to spell.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Frank Glencairn View Post
        Finally there seems to be a native DNG editing solution for Premiere.

        I have no idea, about bit depth (Adobes half assed importer only used 8 bit), but anyway, it seems a step in the right direction,
        and the implementation seems pretty simple.

        Also this sentence kind a stroke me:





        http://19lights.com/wp/tutorials/raw...pper-workflow/

        What do you guys think?

        Frank
        I believe this slight crop happens to allow a better Debayer. Otherwise the debayer will start using the edge pixels from the boundary that aren't part of the picture (ie black).

        I think you'll be hard pressed to pick the extra FOV from 32 pixels.

        JB.

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        • #19
          I'm not an expert in Resolve yet John, and I still have no BMC to test it out for myself. All I can do is try it with DNG's from other ppl and there are some interior shoots and one extreme testshoot where I was able to get more highlight recovery (really recovery from very blown out parts) in AdobeRAW then with Resolve. Your approach is fine but you offer a base image that has to be balanced/graded and then I'm back to Resolve
          EF-BMCC 1300x00 - the lucky one

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          • #20
            Hi John

            When you import the 12 bit Cinema DNG file into this new version of Adobe Camera RAW, will the file be converted to 8 bit or remain at 12 bit ?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by John Hable View Post

              I have a different approach. Rather then playing a little game of "guess the actual exposure of your image", Ginger HDR just gives you the full range, and always gives you the fully recovered highlights. Then you can tweak it with levels, curves, etc. If you really want me to apply that exposure to the image, that's possible if enough people ask for it.
              I think you are doing the right thing. In my view the adobe converter is clipping the highlights and then saying "hay look at the fantastic highlight recovery I'm capable of!" I'd rather just have everything there from the start. If you do enable the auto exposure thing please make it a tick box so that people can choose.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Wuudi View Post
                I'm not an expert in Resolve yet John, and I still have no BMC to test it out for myself. All I can do is try it with DNG's from other ppl and there are some interior shoots and one extreme testshoot where I was able to get more highlight recovery (really recovery from very blown out parts) in AdobeRAW then with Resolve. Your approach is fine but you offer a base image that has to be balanced/graded and then I'm back to Resolve
                Hi Wuudi. Do you have any images online? I'd be interested to see a comparison. Talking with people (here an other places), there is a lot of interest in importing the DNGs to premiere pro, and then doing grading in either Speedgrade or Resolve, which seems to make sense.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by adam777 View Post
                  Hi John

                  When you import the 12 bit Cinema DNG file into this new version of Adobe Camera RAW, will the file be converted to 8 bit or remain at 12 bit ?
                  As you say, the data starts as 12 bit. Ginger HDR gives that data to Premiere Pro as 32bit float.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mattoid View Post
                    I think you are doing the right thing. In my view the adobe converter is clipping the highlights and then saying "hay look at the fantastic highlight recovery I'm capable of!" I'd rather just have everything there from the start. If you do enable the auto exposure thing please make it a tick box so that people can choose.
                    Thanks! And yes, if enough people want auto exposure, I'll make it a tick box that they can choose. One of the tasks right now is to have a window that pops up (like Adobe Camera RAW) to give you some options. Also, if I do add that option, the plugin treats the data as 32bit float which can go over 1.0. So if you add a layer which drops the exposure you will see the highlights get recovered.

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                    • #25
                      Now we are talking, sounds great John.

                      Side note: As someone who nows noting about programing, I'm always baffled what you guys are able to do.

                      Thanks, Frank
                      Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by John Hable View Post
                        Hi Wuudi. Do you have any images online? I'd be interested to see a comparison. Talking with people (here an other places), there is a lot of interest in importing the DNGs to premiere pro, and then doing grading in either Speedgrade or Resolve, which seems to make sense.
                        Yes, they are. I didn't shoot them, were just some super overexposed DNG's somebody posted in the Blackmagic-Forum. Me and some others tried to recover the highlights and AdobeRAW beat Resolve by far. But it was some weeks ago and I really have improved in Resolve. I'll try to fix the files one more time and will post them here later on today.
                        EF-BMCC 1300x00 - the lucky one

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                        • #27
                          Ok here's the frame: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yjmdzdrrty...rame001250.dng

                          And attached my two quick attemps in Resolve and ACR:Frame001250ACR.jpgFrame001250Resolve Kopie.jpg

                          I must say with Frank's method (bmdfilm, adjust then apply the LUT) I already get much better results than on my first attemp. Still there is more texture on the sign outside and the color to me looks better. But well that might be because I'm just a newbie in Resolve...
                          EF-BMCC 1300x00 - the lucky one

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                          • #28
                            Not bad. It looks like ACR can do a little bit of highlight extraction from the other channels in the white balance. In this image, your RGB white balance is (0.629, 1.0, 0.7904) for RGB. That means that you are using every ounce of Green that the RAW has. But you have an extra 0.67 stops of data in red and 0.34 stops of data in your blue channel. There are algorithms that take the unused data in red and blue and use that to estimate your green which lets you extract a little bit of highlight information. But you have to be sure not to go too far, which can cause you to get pink in your highlights in daylight. It's a feature that could be added to Ginger HDR at some point.

                            Btw, the formula for how many extra stops is:
                            ExtraRed = log(1.0/0.629)/log(2) = 0.67
                            ExtraBlue = log(1.0/0.7904)/log(2) = 0.34

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                            • #29
                              What I'm not able to understand, in that Raw is the green channel clipped and the others not?
                              And is the different color of the zion sign my resolve ignorance or is Adobe doing *some* magic here ?
                              EF-BMCC 1300x00 - the lucky one

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                              • #30
                                What's strange to me is how you got the lines on the car to show up in Resolve.

                                I can't even see them. Hmm

                                Edit: are you sure the resolve frame you're using is the exact one you're using in ACR?

                                Nothing I can do in LR4 or R9 can get that car's bodylines to show up.

                                SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
                                Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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