Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Syncing clips to certain elements in the music

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Syncing clips to certain elements in the music

    Hey,

    I'm very, very new to the world of video/film and I, just like many others, jumped on the BMPCC train because of the summer sale. Anyway, I noticed that I have big problems with getting a good flow in the videos without syncing the clips to beats in the music. For example on the kickdrum or on a chord or something similar. I get a bit tired of myself when I look back at my videos, but at the same time I don't know any other way to do it. It's just like I can't understand when to change clip if I don't have a marker in form of music. Maybe it's because I come from music production/working with music on a daily basis, but still. I've watched a lot of other people who just seem to cut wherever and it still looks fluent. I can't figure it out, I need those beats, lol.

    Advice? How do you do it? Are there any general guidelines?

    In case I wasn't clear, you can watch one of my vids here where you'll notice I only change clip on the kickdrum, lol. I feel stupid now.

    macarize.net | youtube.com/kristofferljungberg | 500px.com/kristofferljungberg

  • #2
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tting+to+music

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmm, maybe you misunderstood what I ment? I already try to cut to the music, sync it with beats or chords, but I've seen many movies where they don't do it. When I try, it feels off sync in a weird way I can't get used to.
      macarize.net | youtube.com/kristofferljungberg | 500px.com/kristofferljungberg

      Comment


      • #4
        OK, can you name one of the films so we have a point of reference?

        Comment


        • #5
          I think it might have something to do with just the overall pacing of the film. The song sort of repeatedly builds itself up, then the kick, and then it does it all over again. By placing the next shot at the kick it feels like the shot is a big reveal (something that would work awesome with like a Sports Highlight reel), rather than just being the next shot.

          Since you come from a music background I also think that you might have purposefully thought in terms of beats, where to put your cuts. Since these beats are obviously universal throughout the song, it starts to make the cuts seem expected, humdrum. By even shifting your cut by a couple frames on either side of the kick I think it could and would totally change the feel of the film. Granted I also have a music background and like to try to match up my beats with my cuts based on the beats, but look deeper into that drum line and see if you could maybe place it on that HH in between the big kicks.

          But keep in mind that the way you feel is the same way a lot of people feel about seeing themselves on camera, or hearing their own voices - we're always going to be the most critical to ourselves

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SkyHighFG View Post
            I think it might have something to do with just the overall pacing of the film. The song sort of repeatedly builds itself up, then the kick, and then it does it all over again. By placing the next shot at the kick it feels like the shot is a big reveal (something that would work awesome with like a Sports Highlight reel), rather than just being the next shot.

            Since you come from a music background I also think that you might have purposefully thought in terms of beats, where to put your cuts. Since these beats are obviously universal throughout the song, it starts to make the cuts seem expected, humdrum. By even shifting your cut by a couple frames on either side of the kick I think it could and would totally change the feel of the film. Granted I also have a music background and like to try to match up my beats with my cuts based on the beats, but look deeper into that drum line and see if you could maybe place it on that HH in between the big kicks.

            But keep in mind that the way you feel is the same way a lot of people feel about seeing themselves on camera, or hearing their own voices - we're always going to be the most critical to ourselves
            I run a record label where I focus on releasing electronic dance music and I've decided to use music from the label in all my stuff because it feels more fun that way, kind of combining my two hobbies. Problem with it though is that most of the tracks are bound to beats of this nature, but most are of the classic "four on the floor" nature, which I guess will get problematic in terms of cutting. That kind of music is very systematic, repetitive. It would feel so off sync to not put a new clip on a beat, you know?

            Maybe it's not even a problem. It just got a bit frustrating when it it felt like I didn't have a choice, heh.

            Anyway, thanks for the reply. Wanted to get some input but also vent a bit, hehe.
            macarize.net | youtube.com/kristofferljungberg | 500px.com/kristofferljungberg

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm a musician too.
              I've had similar issues, but you just have to force yourself to do it.
              I try to limit cuts to the beat. I used to write music for television and I spent ages watching film editors cut to my music. Most of the time they try to cut to the pace of the footage - how long does a shot need to breathe. Often they cut to a beat or chord change if the edit is visually significant or significant to the story being told.
              There are no rules. I'm a novice filmmaker, and I'm just trying to force myself to cut away from obvious beats and music transitions.
              Try it and see if you can live with your cuts.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bscenefilms View Post
                OK, can you name one of the films so we have a point of reference?
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ_1HMAGb4k

                Only about 20% of the cuts happen on a beat.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kristofferl View Post
                  Hmm, maybe you misunderstood what I ment? I already try to cut to the music, sync it with beats or chords, but I've seen many movies where they don't do it. When I try, it feels off sync in a weird way I can't get used to.
                  I agree, when I see it in music it just seems like lazy directing or editing.

                  Originally posted by chrisso View Post
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ_1HMAGb4k

                  Only about 20% of the cuts happen on a beat.
                  I'd say it's more than that. 20% of the cuts happen on the 1, most of the other cuts are motivated by the lyrics rather than the kick drum but still occur on beat. There are definitely a few odd ones in there though, mostly where they cut on 4 and the video hangs for an extra beat before the 1.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As a drummer I'd say a lot of the cuts are not on beat, but as you say, on vocal. A decent amount are on 'the one', or the 'downbeat', or whichever musical term you choose to describe the first beat of a bar.
                    In the OP's video, every cut is 'on the one'.
                    A music video is often more motivated by the music. Documentary and narrative might be even more divorced (or off sync) from the 'beat'.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by chrisso View Post
                      In the OP's video, every cut is 'on the one'.
                      This.

                      Originally posted by kristofferl View Post
                      ...most are of the classic "four on the floor" nature, which I guess will get problematic in terms of cutting. That kind of music is very systematic, repetitive.
                      Yeah, I love EDM/SynthPop stuff and know what you're talking about in terms of basically repeating 4 bars...but with music pretty much everyone understands that

                      But if you match the repetitive music with repetitive cuts, there's your reason as to why you think it feels a bit "tired", because it's the same cut, over and over again..

                      You mentioned in your original post that you didn't know when to change the clip unless you had a marker for your music...but I think that will only hold you back in terms of making sure all of your cuts are done at X point, rather than whenever you "felt" that you wanted to change your shot..

                      Granted it would require some more editing, but the next time you want a piece of music for your shots, lay down your music for the length you want. Then MUTE the audio track and start cutting and placing the clips where you want them. Watch it without audio, and when you think the cut is good, unmute the audio...then go back and make edits on where something just feels like it's WAY off...not foolproof but a good way to get out of the groove of always cutting to the beat and not being happy with the result..

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah surely I have a lot to learn. I just started filming stuff and so far I basically film the same way I take stills, lol. I'm very shy and lack self-confidence, but that's another thread.

                        Hopefully I'll develop other techniques over time. Just wanted to get some input from you guys.
                        macarize.net | youtube.com/kristofferljungberg | 500px.com/kristofferljungberg

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Music videos and narrative are two separate entities. Muting the audio track for a music video is suicide, for narrative, let the composer figure it out, although I'm pretty sure the editor is working with a temp track. Good Luck.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Personally I'm not really doing music videos. The reason I bought the camera and wanted to get into it was because I wanted some kind of extra promotion thing to use for the record label. Combining some shots with the music I relelase could add an extra layer to it. So yeah, in a way it's a music video because the music is somewhat in focus, it's just not directed as a music video.
                            macarize.net | youtube.com/kristofferljungberg | 500px.com/kristofferljungberg

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              This is a somewhat recent example. It doesn't have a theme or anything, just random shots cut to the chords or the kick. I did this because, as I said before, to add an extra layer to the promotion. Some people really like watching something when they listen to music on Youtube.

                              Is this way of cutting it to the music annoying? Or does it work?

                              macarize.net | youtube.com/kristofferljungberg | 500px.com/kristofferljungberg

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X