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Blackmagic URSA EF vs CION

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  • #46
    Originally posted by xjs View Post
    I thought the black sun thing was more common. Can you shoot a sunset or a car headlight straight into the lens at night or a flashlight type of scene ala 7even ? These types of shots are pretty common.
    It all depends on atmospherics, geography, location, time of year and position of sun. I have shot many sunsets, car headlights etc...without having a black hole sun. I have shot a few films with sequences involving tactical torch but personally wouldn't shine that torch directly into the lens from six feet away. We had to brief the actors and crew using the torches because they will cause retina shutdown for up to minute. So taking that into account, would you shine such a device direct into your camera sensor Shooting on film is a completely different story (a la Se7en). A swipe past with the torch would probably be fine etc, but no more than that. The issue completely exists and I'm sure even the knowledge that it might happen is enough to cause people uncertainty about attempting some shots. But man, its such an easy fix in post. I know that's not the point, but if you have an opportunity to get a shot then get it.
    Last edited by Tim Hole; 04-07-2014, 05:01 PM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Tim Hole View Post
      It all depends on atmospherics, geography, location, time of year and position of sun. I have shot many sunsets, car headlights etc...without having a black hole sun. I have shot a few films with sequences involving tactical torch but personally wouldn't shine that torch directly into the lens from six feet away. We had to brief the actors and crew using the torches because they will cause retina shutdown for up to minute. So taking that into account, would you shine such a device direct into your camera sensor Shooting on film is a completely different story (a la Se7en). A swipe past with the torch would probably be fine etc, but no more than that. The issue completely exists and I'm sure even the knowledge that it might happen is enough to cause people uncertainty about attempting some shots. But man, its such an easy fix in post. I know that's not the point, but if you have an opportunity to get a shot then get it.
      What is your workflow to fix it in post?

      And what's with the fixed pattern noise everybody keeps talking about?
      Last edited by xjs; 04-08-2014, 02:11 AM.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by xjs View Post
        What is your workflow to fix it in post?
        Create white circle shape, track black sun spot. Even a few keyframes do.
        Dunno why people cry about this all the time. The material needs to be CC'ed anyway.
        There is just one thing a firmware update needs to address - usable audio, maybe meters.
        Sure one basic histogram could be nice.

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        • #49
          http://nofilmschool.com/2014/04/nab-...uction-camera/

          In the interview here, the guy says currently it's linear only, and will prob stay that way to be used with a LUT box or something else. About 4:40.

          ???????????????

          Have i misunderstood? Cause that seems like a big deal to me.
          Blackmagic Design
          My BMD LUTs.

          **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

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          • #50
            The black/purple hole has bitten me a few times, and for how i like to shoot it bothers me. I'd like it fixed.
            Blackmagic Design
            My BMD LUTs.

            **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

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            • #51
              Originally posted by stier View Post
              Create white circle shape, track black sun spot. Even a few keyframes do.
              Dunno why people cry about this all the time. The material needs to be CC'ed anyway.
              There is just one thing a firmware update needs to address - usable audio, maybe meters.
              Sure one basic histogram could be nice.

              Sounds like a lot of work, specially if there flares cause by this light source.

              And what's with the fixed pattern noise everybody keeps talking about?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by xjs View Post
                Sounds like a lot of work, specially if there flares cause by this light source. And what's with the fixed pattern noise everybody keeps talking about?
                I don't think you have encountered the problem yet. Do you even have a BM camera? The fixed pattern noise only occurs on the 4k. The BMCC does exhobit rolling lines when underexposed too much.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by CaptainHook View Post
                  http://nofilmschool.com/2014/04/nab-...uction-camera/

                  In the interview here, the guy says currently it's linear only, and will prob stay that way to be used with a LUT box or something else. About 4:40.

                  ???????????????

                  Have i misunderstood? Cause that seems like a big deal to me.
                  Bumping this. I gotta think i'm interpreting this wrong. Storing Linear in Prores? Would anyone be okay editing linear?
                  Blackmagic Design
                  My BMD LUTs.

                  **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

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                  • #54
                    Also... "AJA RAW".... he mentions it will be open to anyone to support. Proprietary raw format?
                    Blackmagic Design
                    My BMD LUTs.

                    **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I can see many users here shouting a price advantage to URSA but is it really like that? AJA SSD pak is way cheaper than CFast cards so a simple mathematical equation quickly puts both cameras on par (regarding price), when you evaluate recording media.

                      IMHO, AJA got it right with the Cion. Clever ergonomics and weight. EVF instead of stupidly (sorry… It's only my opinion on it), big an awkward 10" screen that probably will serve no purpose when shooting at direct sunlight.

                      If AJA would come with interchangeable sensors it was a no brainer for me (and I'm a BM owner). BM cleverly made what RED should have made when they announced their "Obsolescence Obsolete" campaign.

                      Anyway… The tricky part is yet to come and that is to see what kind of image both companies can acquire from their cameras after sensor calibration, knowing for anticipation that URSA will probably ship with BMPC sensor so not so sensitive as others Global shutters out there.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Kholi View Post
                        Then don't buy it.
                        lauging baby.jpg

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by CaptainHook View Post
                          Bumping this. I gotta think i'm interpreting this wrong. Storing Linear in Prores? Would anyone be okay editing linear?
                          Not very clear, but he might have meant the external output.
                          Also, it was said as an answer to a question about log, and a lot of people incorrectly use "linear" when they actually mean gamma encoded (or anything non-log).
                          Shutter Angle: The science and magic of shooting moving pictures

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by CaptainHook View Post
                            Bumping this. I gotta think i'm interpreting this wrong. Storing Linear in Prores? Would anyone be okay editing linear?
                            Curious about that too. I would think he meant to say log. That would make sense if they are promoting the use of a LUT box.

                            As for the AJA RAW format I don't know enough about the technologies involved however it would be great to see it in combination with an Odyssey Q7. I dropped Convergent Design a tweet today and they where yet to check out the Cion however would look into it.

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                            • #59
                              The good thing about AJA's camera is fact that they have been working on it for a long time, so it should be way more reliable than BM first camera.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by naavt View Post
                                EVF instead of stupidly (sorry… It's only my opinion on it), big an awkward 10" screen that probably will serve no purpose when shooting at direct sunlight.
                                Cion doesn't have an EVF. Add your own like URSA. Also, you don't know if that 10" is useable in sunlight or not. It's not touch screen. It's made for the image.

                                Originally posted by naavt View Post
                                Anyway… The tricky part is yet to come and that is to see what kind of image both companies can acquire from their cameras after sensor calibration, knowing for anticipation that URSA will probably ship with BMPC sensor so not so sensitive as others Global shutters out there.
                                Yes, just that minor, tricky part. Also, high chance the Cion is the same sensor so i wanna see some images from it!! I think it's exciting all these new cameras from various companies. Best NAB yet for me!!
                                Blackmagic Design
                                My BMD LUTs.

                                **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

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