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  • Pocket camera Card Full - but not really!

    I'm still testing my Pocket cam before actually using it on productions.

    With 64GB 95MBs card, I recorded a mix of ProRes and RAW footage. All is good so far.

    Now, the last clip was maybe 10 minutes long, and it automatically cut off with camera reporting Card Full. Legit, I thought.

    But the computer is showing 9.84GB (yup, GB not MB) still available on the card. Given the RAW frame size of about 2MB each, I could have recorded at least 4,000 more frames - which would give me 4000/24fps/60sec = 2.7min more of recording time. More than enough for what I needed. Alas, the camera did not let me.

    There is no technical reason why cut recording early with RAW. It is just individual frames, after all. Worse come to worst, one last frame may get corrupted - but that's it. Not like we are recording H264 with long GOP here, you know.

    So why did the recording cut off with 15% of storage actually still available?

    Another BMPCC quirk we should be aware of, it seems...
    Data Boss - the easiest way to save, then find your data any time

  • #2
    Let's not jump to conclusions just yet,

    where did you buy the card from?
    Tom Majerski
    Cinematographer / Photographer / CGI Artist / Filmmaker

    http://www.TetraGrade.com
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5157752/

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    • #3
      And let's remember........we don't want to fill up the cards 100%. Tons of info on this for some time. I always have at least 4-6 GB or more left on my cards when I swap.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by vicharris View Post
        And let's remember........we don't want to fill up the cards 100%. Tons of info on this for some time. I always have at least 4-6 GB or more left on my cards when I swap.
        How about, let it be my decision. When I need to fill up the card, I should be able to.

        Tom: I bought it at B&H, link in the original post.

        Computer shows 59.4GB available after formatting - but BMPCC cut me off with 9.84GB still left available out of 59.4GB total, as reported by PC!

        Do you guys have the same problem or not?
        Data Boss - the easiest way to save, then find your data any time

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        • #5
          Are you able to fill the card with random files from the PC?
          Tom Majerski
          Cinematographer / Photographer / CGI Artist / Filmmaker

          http://www.TetraGrade.com
          http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5157752/

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          • #6
            mine cuts off around the same point. actually, it might have been even sooner (around 39 GB or so, so like 25GB supposedly free)-this happened on a shoot about 2 weeekends ago. I have two 64GB sandisk extreme pros 95mb/s, both from B&H. It happened on one- not sure about the second one since I usually swap pretty fast once I think Ive shot a lot.

            I thought I remembered reading on here a bit before this was normal, tho anybody that can contradict me please

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Alex Primehd View Post
              How about, let it be my decision. When I need to fill up the card, I should be able to.

              Tom: I bought it at B&H, link in the original post.

              Computer shows 59.4GB available after formatting - but BMPCC cut me off with 9.84GB still left available out of 59.4GB total, as reported by PC!

              Do you guys have the same problem or not?
              Ok, nice attitude.

              1. Maybe you should read up on how to shoot with this camera from BM before you get an attitude with people telling you how to not screw up your footage.
              2. BM recommends people do not fill up any SD or SSD card as does about every other professional who knows how to shoot with HDs.
              3. So if you want to do your own thing and screw up footage or crash a card, against many peoples professional opinion including the people who made your camera, go ahead but don't come back here and ask us why you have dropped frames or a card has crashed when you filled it up.

              I was just telling you the proper way to shoot.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by AHLiu View Post
                mine cuts off around the same point. actually, it might have been even sooner (around 39 GB or so, so like 25GB supposedly free)-this happened on a shoot about 2 weeekends ago. I have two 64GB sandisk extreme pros 95mb/s, both from B&H. It happened on one- not sure about the second one since I usually swap pretty fast once I think Ive shot a lot.

                I thought I remembered reading on here a bit before this was normal, tho anybody that can contradict me please
                Yes, the camera shows the cards full before it reaches its limits to prevent people from filling it up 100%.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alex Primehd View Post
                  So why did the recording cut off with 15% of storage actually still available?

                  Another BMPCC quirk we should be aware of, it seems...
                  Alex, I've no idea why this is happening and I've absolutely no idea why people discuss “professional” ways to “not fill up card” because “that's supposed to be the true vanilla old school way decided back in the olden days” (a load of superstitions to me). A filesystem by any other name would smell as sweet — I shot RAW yesterday on two 64Gb Extreme Pros. Mid-shoot, #1 started to gave me Card Full. Okay, rolled several more takes, then we had a short break and I thought hey, let's check it out. Asked my 1AD for a MacBook Pro, popped in the card — yep, 60Gb filled, 4 more to go. Thought “okay, we still have two or three technical takes to make, why not try and fill them here”. In I pop #1 and we shoot a few more takes. Later on we switch to #2 and even later on I offload #1 to my RAID and it's filled at 63-something Gb and yet a bit more room left. We shot a commercial, so the takes were naturally short — between 10 and 15 seconds each — so I've no idea why the camera did that for you (probably with longer takes), but yes, Virginia, there is a way to successfully fill an SD card out there, and again, a filesystem is a filesystem, you should be golden when you have at least several seconds of recording space left (which might or might not amount to an I/O buffer — but we should probably ask a Blackmagic engineer to confirm that).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AHLiu View Post
                    mine cuts off around the same point. actually, it might have been even sooner (around 39 GB or so, so like 25GB supposedly free)-this happened on a shoot about 2 weeekends ago. I have two 64GB sandisk extreme pros 95mb/s, both from B&H. It happened on one- not sure about the second one since I usually swap pretty fast once I think Ive shot a lot.

                    I thought I remembered reading on here a bit before this was normal, tho anybody that can contradict me please
                    OK so then it's not a particular card that is at fault but rather how the camera behaves.

                    This might be why BM has NOT implemented the "remaining media" indicator. Suppose they would show 10GB remaining - and then camera would cut the recording off anyway, what good would that be.

                    Of course I'm not advocating the absence of the 'remaining media" indicator/counter. I'm rather saying that they should have such indicator, AND that the camera should never arbitrarily cut off so early.

                    After all, we are not talking about dropped frames here - that's not what happens here, apparently. Rather, the camera specifically reports Card Full, while it is nowhere near - and then cuts the recording off. Haven't seen anything like it on any other camera, for the reason - its' not how cameras should behave.

                    BTW it would be interesting to see whether this problem is repeatable, and also - is there a difference in cut-off point when it shoots ProRes vs RAW, or it doesn't matter?
                    Data Boss - the easiest way to save, then find your data any time

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Anton Outkine View Post
                      no idea why people discuss “professional” ways to “not fill up card”
                      The guy provided no solid info, was just being condescending. Good ol' trolling, I suppose. If you know how to deal, please share

                      Originally posted by Anton Outkine View Post
                      I shot RAW yesterday on two 64Gb Extreme Pros. Mid-shoot, #1 started to gave me Card Full. Okay, rolled several more takes, then we had a short break and I thought hey, let's check it out. Asked my 1AD for a MacBook Pro, popped in the card — yep, 60Gb filled, 4 more to go. Thought “okay, we still have two or three technical takes to make, why not try and fill them here”. In I pop #1 and we shoot a few more takes.
                      OK so let's see if I get it:

                      - BMPCC arbitrarily cuts off recording, reporting Card Full - when it is not.
                      - However, you can re-start the recording and it will continue without a problem - correct? (I did not try that. But then again, I don't normally jaywalk either hehe)

                      When your recording is re-started, do you ever get cut off *again* at some (wrong) point with Card Full message, or not?
                      Data Boss - the easiest way to save, then find your data any time

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                      • #12
                        I tested with a 16gb card.
                        It stopped at 13.5gb out of a capacity of 14.8gb.
                        That's about 9% that wasn't being used, some of which could be formatting overhead.
                        What's interesting to me is that if BM is technically aware
                        of how much space is left, wouldn't it be trivial to display it?
                        And if they don't know how much time is left, what is actually
                        shutting the recording off?

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                        • #13
                          I don't remember an exact number from my last shoot, but my 64gb was cut off at 49gb. My 32gbs were also cut off with extra space on the card.

                          Edit (I didn't save this before): check the duration of the clips from the 64gb cards, both at about 20. This is posted all lover, 20 minutes is the cutoff for the 64gb cards.
                          Last edited by Greek_m43; 12-16-2013, 08:50 AM.
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                          • #14
                            So I'm telling you the problem and you are insulting me. Hmmm. Maybe why some of the more experienced guys on the board aren't commenting. Have you thought about that?

                            I'm telling you why it's happening. This is nothing new. It's been talked about over and over again here and on the official BM forum. It's how it is.

                            I guess if Tom, Kholi or one of the moderators jumped in you wouldn't treat them like shit eh.

                            I wasn't being rude or mean but you are for no reason. If you still don't believe me then I guess good luck with taking anyones advice here.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Greek_m43 View Post
                              I don't remember an exact number from my last shoot, but my 64gb was cut off at 49gb. My 32gbs were also cut off with extra space on the card.
                              Yeah, dude, because it's supposed to happen. Has anyone actually researched this stuff from BM? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

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