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Audio solutions....what are you using to record internally to the BMCC

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  • #76
    Originally posted by funwithstuff View Post
    Please, please, don't start an arms race on volume.
    LOL! I h8 to break it to you but as an old disc jockey from the early '70s, I can assure you the volume arms race has been going on for a very long time.

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    • #77
      A lot of the youtube videos I make need to be heard on iphone and ipad speakers without headphones. I usually master to -3.
      vimeo.com/hearnstudios/

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Hearnia View Post
        A lot of the youtube videos I make need to be heard on iphone and ipad speakers without headphones. I usually master to -3.
        Thank you...I've started hard limiting (without any boost) to get rid of abnormal peaks and normalizing to -3 too. It's sounding pretty good to me and the apparent loudness isn't unreasonable.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by mhood View Post
          Thank you...I've started hard limiting (without any boost) to get rid of abnormal peaks and normalizing to -3 too. It's sounding pretty good to me and the apparent loudness isn't unreasonable.
          Yeah. I do the main voice interviews to -3. Usually music is much lower, maybe -18.
          vimeo.com/hearnstudios/

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          • #80
            Originally posted by mhood View Post
            LOL! I h8 to break it to you but as an old disc jockey from the early '70s, I can assure you the volume arms race has been going on for a very long time.
            I know in the music realm it hit 0 a long time ago, then everything was compressed as close as possible to that magic 0. We don't need to repeat that here.

            The stuff I've been doing recently has all been peaking at -6dB, or maybe a smidgin above, and it sounds fine on an iPad at less than full volume. Consistency is important. When I used to be a retoucher, I used to work on a heap of crappy jewellery. Rather than being consistent about what "gold" should look like, they would change their mind on every job, asking for it to be "more gold". We tried making it identical to their previous, approved jobs, but every time they'd want it different, asking for it to be tinted slightly magenta, yellow, or whatever.

            They were happy with every job, but at the end of the year when they produced a catalog of all their products, nothing matched. Yellowish, orangeish, golds, all over the shop. If you change audio levels from the long-established standard then you're making your videos different from everyone else's in just the same way. You could make a video for a client that doesn't match any of their previous videos, and then you're doing them a disservice.

            To be honest, if you're being strict about peaks at -3 and I'm being a little loose with -6, then it's not going to sound hugely different, and we can all get along. Average audio level, hopefully not too far from -12dB, is also important. But if people start mastering to 0... then clearly it's the end times.
            Iain Anderson, Apple Certified Trainer
            http://trainingbrisbane.com

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            • #81
              Originally posted by funwithstuff View Post
              I know in the music realm it hit 0 a long time ago, then everything was compressed as close as possible to that magic 0. We don't need to repeat that here.

              The stuff I've been doing recently has all been peaking at -6dB, or maybe a smidgin above, and it sounds fine on an iPad at less than full volume.
              The thing is though that not everyone has an iPad... people have all sorts of crappy laptops with terrible sound or they listen on mobiles etc. Another point is that people go from listening to a music video to a short film and back again. If your audio level is averaging at -12db it might be considerably softer than the music video they just listened to. Sound is so important that I would rather slightly annoy a few people that have to turn down my audio than risk a bunch of people not listening to my audio at a decent level. Loud is good you can always turn it down. And lets face it people are going to go all over the place with their levels but one thing we can all agree on is you should not hit 0db. So -0.1db as the peak is almost the only rule that makes sense.
              fluoro.com

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Rakesh Malik View Post
                I did find one review of an Azden preamp, and it was quite positive. Of course, the Sound Devices is still the gold standard, but the Azden equivalent is a LOT less expensive... like about half. And while the MixPre-D probably sounds better, I sincerely doubt that it's a factor of 2x. Probably a lot less, due to the law of diminishing returns.
                Yes but build quality wise it might be more than twice as good? The only way of knowing this for sure is for independent tests to be done. Unfortunately tests for endurance don't seem to be done in the video world like they are in say the car world. I think Sound Devices are one of the best companies around with not only the audio quality but the build quality of their 'devices'. I would be surprised if their gear while being the twice the price of something similar, specs wise, might not last twice as long as well. I sincerely believe SD gear is a bargain for what you get. If you don't have the money, sure don't buy it, but if it's just a question of which is better "value" then my vote is pretty much always for SD.

                I own a SD702 but I also own a Roland R-26 when I want a lighter smaller set up so I'm not completely opposed to other gear... but I wish SD made a little mini recorder around the size of the R-26...

                Okay SD fanboy signing off...
                fluoro.com

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Fluoro View Post
                  So -0.1db as the peak is almost the only rule that makes sense.
                  Agreed. For now this is the way to go. Use a brickwall limiter and limit the output to -0.1db. Most NLEs will have a limiter plugin available.

                  A rule of thumb with music limiting might be to not limit more than a few db. Much more than that and you'll hear the limiter "pumping". This literally sounds like someone turning up and down the master volume quickly - not a pleasant sound. With spoken interviews or the like in a controlled environment you might be able to get away with more limiting before you can hear it pumping.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Fluoro View Post
                    The thing is though that not everyone has an iPad... people have all sorts of crappy laptops with terrible sound or they listen on mobiles etc. Another point is that people go from listening to a music video to a short film and back again. If your audio level is averaging at -12db it might be considerably softer than the music video they just listened to. Sound is so important that I would rather slightly annoy a few people that have to turn down my audio than risk a bunch of people not listening to my audio at a decent level. Loud is good you can always turn it down. And lets face it people are going to go all over the place with their levels but one thing we can all agree on is you should not hit 0db. So -0.1db as the peak is almost the only rule that makes sense.
                    Music videos are more likely to be louder, especially if they're made from the audio master and never mixed down but people often want to listen to that stuff louder anyway. You'll still find very little audio on professional video projects hitting anywhere near 0dB.

                    Anyway, don't listen to me, listen to these smart people:
                    "-.2dBFS is too high a level. It works in the CD world because you are staying in the PCM realm until the D/A of the playback system. How much room do you leave? At least a dB. I'd leave a little more. And also, as was suggested, run some tests."
                    -- http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=269023&page=3

                    "...for the sake of argument, go with -3dB peaks."
                    -- http://forums.adobe.com/message/2371734

                    "Total audio mix level: -3dB to -6dB" (and he's recommending louder levels than most people, but for audio only he wants peaks between "-6 and -4.5 dB")
                    -- http://www.larryjordan.biz/audio-che...ng-and-levels/

                    There is no real consensus for online video. If you want to go louder than -6dB, I'd go for -3dB.
                    Iain Anderson, Apple Certified Trainer
                    http://trainingbrisbane.com

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Fluoro View Post
                      I own a SD702 but I also own a Roland R-26 when I want a lighter smaller set up so I'm not completely opposed to other gear... but I wish SD made a little mini recorder around the size of the R-26...
                      Me too. Their gear has great sound quality as well as build quality, so if they made a recorder that mated well with a MixPre-D, they'd have a killer combination for field sound recording.

                      The recording quality on the BMCC is adequate, but that's about it. They call it a cinema CAMERA, not sound recorder after all.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by funwithstuff View Post
                        Music videos are more likely to be louder, especially if they're made from the audio master and never mixed down — but people often want to listen to that stuff louder anyway. You'll still find very little audio on professional video projects hitting anywhere near 0dB.

                        Anyway, don't listen to me, listen to these smart people:
                        "-.2dBFS is too high a level. It works in the CD world because you are staying in the PCM realm until the D/A of the playback system. How much room do you leave? At least a dB. I'd leave a little more. And also, as was suggested, run some tests."
                        -- http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=269023&page=3

                        "...for the sake of argument, go with -3dB peaks."
                        -- http://forums.adobe.com/message/2371734

                        "Total audio mix level: -3dB to -6dB" (and he's recommending louder levels than most people, but for audio only he wants peaks between "-6 and -4.5 dB")
                        -- http://www.larryjordan.biz/audio-che...ng-and-levels/

                        There is no real consensus for online video. If you want to go louder than -6dB, I'd go for -3dB.

                        Fair enough. I was probably talking in extremes to make a point about the lack of control and consistency for where your audio ends up in the internet realm. -3db seems like a good middle ground.
                        fluoro.com

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                        • #87
                          Just stick to this and everything is fine

                          http://tv.adobe.com/watch/creative-c...oudness-radar/

                          For web I use the CD preset
                          Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Frank Glencairn View Post
                            Just stick to this and everything is fine

                            http://tv.adobe.com/watch/creative-c...oudness-radar/

                            For web I use the CD preset
                            Thanks, Frank. I don't have the standalone Adobe Audition but this does seem very valuable. I should look into integrating it with FCP X and Resolve. Is anyone aware of a comparable capability in any other software they recommend?

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                            • #89
                              It's in Premiere CC too.
                              I'm sure there is some sort of plugin for FCP that does something similar.
                              Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

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                              • #90
                                Audition works wonders, it makes people like me who are not audio savants look extremely competent.

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