Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Petition - "BMD Buyers Matter"

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Robert Hart View Post
    Be careful what you wish for. When push comes to shove BMD might just do a shut down and phoenix if the enterprise gets painted into a financial corner. They did not get into a legal fight over Cinema DNG apparently due to being too small a fish to afford the costs so they are likely not big enough to be not allowed to fail.
    I've got lots of business experience working for tech manufacturing companies so I'm wearing my business hat for a moment here. I say this remark of 'be careful what you wish for' is just a fear tactic most people use. This shouldn't stop us from asking them to be a better company.

    Every company takes some risk - some larger than others. But you have to take some risk if you want to be larger and viable someday. There are many ways for a company to be better without affecting the bottom line. Charging for extended protection/warranty and increasing product price to improve and/or innovate are examples. Those variances for QC or consumer insurance would only cost an additional 1% per unit sold to customers. So, for example, if they charge another $60 dollars (for a protection fee) annually and increase $60 to the price of a $6K camera, they can escrow the paid fees to pay for replacement units and the extra margin from the increased price to get to an improve QC workforce, which potentially could decrease the failure rates - a good thing for both them and their customers. As a consumer, that's not a big price to pay. I'm good with that either way. The side effect of this model is only positive as well - better customer service and company reputation which equates to more sales and increase revenue. It all depends on what is important to the people who makes the decision in the company. When companies stay the status quo, it's not because they are small. It is because of unwillingness to venture and take risk, investor/stockholder pressure, or just plain greed. In the last 35 years, I've seen enough that I can almost say this with certainty.
    Last edited by EYu; 10-02-2019, 05:53 PM.

    Comment


    • #47
      "Be careful what you wish for" is not a scare tactic on my part. It touches on a reality. We saw what happened to Cineform's historic customer support when GoPro bought in. Try to re-register old software that has died with the failed computer drive and see how you get on. Cineform had a fairly bulletproof security on their intellectual property. It is now locked away and inaccessible. Blackmagic may stay in the game long enough to make a return on the owner's original investment of intense time and effort. That may not be sustainable without health consequences. What happens when "he" or "they" get old or get sick and want out. If another bigger corporate fish comes along and buys in, the intellectual property may be stripped and less profitable product lines eliminated in an efficiency cull. Pray that the bigger fish is not Adobe. The marque as such may go away very quickly and become both unloved and unsupported.
      Last edited by Robert Hart; 10-05-2019, 10:52 AM. Reason: error

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Robert Hart View Post
        Be careful what you wish for. When push comes to shove BMD might just do a shut down and phoenix if the enterprise gets painted into a financial corner. They did not get into a legal fight over Cinema DNG apparently due to being too small a fish to afford the costs so they are likely not big enough to be not allowed to fail.
        Thankfully there are WAY more options available today. I'm personally not gonna be held "hostage" to any manufacturer when there are other options. Much as I am a BMD fan...and love what they stand for.
        Darren Scott
        Freelance Director/Director of Photography


        https://vimeo.com/jambredzvisions/videos

        Comment


        • #49
          Sorry folks...I started this thread and then got called away out into the bush unexpectedly.....

          Well it sure got ppl talking and discussing and it inflamed some passion along the way. Thats good I think.

          No solution to the problem but I dont think we will get one. Hopefully this caused some noise on the net and BM actually took a look...we will never know.

          However I dont think the title is silly or stupid. Its a real problem. Those of us who drop 6K on a camera are not throw away people. We do matter. This issue matters. ANY publicity is good publicity....if people are talking about this then good. It raises the awareness and if so, mission successful.

          I was on the brink of pushing the buy button but have now pulled back. I just can't afford to bring a camera of this size all the way out here and have it fail on me willy nilly as BM cams seem to do for some.

          No matter what anyone says its kind of crazy to feel this way about buying a brand new out of the box camera.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by M&M's View Post
            Sorry folks...I started this thread and then got called away out into the bush unexpectedly.....

            Well it sure got ppl talking and discussing and it inflamed some passion along the way. Thats good I think.

            No solution to the problem but I dont think we will get one. Hopefully this caused some noise on the net and BM actually took a look...we will never know.

            However I dont think the title is silly or stupid. Its a real problem. Those of us who drop 6K on a camera are not throw away people. We do matter. This issue matters. ANY publicity is good publicity....if people are talking about this then good. It raises the awareness and if so, mission successful.

            I was on the brink of pushing the buy button but have now pulled back. I just can't afford to bring a camera of this size all the way out here and have it fail on me willy nilly as BM cams seem to do for some.

            No matter what anyone says its kind of crazy to feel this way about buying a brand new out of the box camera.
            Your concern can be addressed in 1 of 3 ways:

            1) Buy an extended third party warranty.

            2) Get insurance to protect your $6K investment.

            3) Buy a different brand and see if their 1 year warranty will magically last several years.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by dop16mm View Post
              so carry 2 all the time at least if you are working professionals and bill accordingly.
              This has been my approach for the last 10 years with all brands of cameras.

              The first RED ONE show I did we had five bodies.

              I did a three camera show in Atlanta and we had five Alexa bodies.

              The current two camera show I'm on now has three Alexa bodies.

              Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
              Don't forget that Arri has a very robust manufacturing pipeline with by hand-QC during the entire process, so they have the infrastructure to repair or replace the tiniest fault.

              My current show has three Alexa bodies rented direct from Arri GB.

              I've swapped over two of those three bodies so far due to faults in the camera in the first few weeks of shooting.

              We also had a "bug" where the clip on the camera became corrupted if the camera has an external TC clock fitted and the TC updates during a record event. Codex only charged us 1500 to recover the clip. This was a month ago.

              All Alexa. All Arri supplied and rented.

              All cameras have issues and failures. Any professional plans for them.

              JB

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
                This has been my approach for the last 10 years with all brands of cameras.

                The first RED ONE show I did we had five bodies.

                I did a three camera show in Atlanta and we had five Alexa bodies.

                The current two camera show I'm on now has three Alexa bodies.




                My current show has three Alexa bodies rented direct from Arri GB.

                I've swapped over two of those three bodies so far due to faults in the camera in the first few weeks of shooting.

                We also had a "bug" where the clip on the camera became corrupted if the camera has an external TC clock fitted and the TC updates during a record event. Codex only charged us 1500 to recover the clip. This was a month ago.

                All Alexa. All Arri supplied and rented.

                All cameras have issues and failures. Any professional plans for them.

                JB
                Is this about Catherine the Great but not the one with Helen Mirren?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
                  This has been my approach for the last 10 years with all brands of cameras.

                  The first RED ONE show I did we had five bodies.

                  I did a three camera show in Atlanta and we had five Alexa bodies.

                  The current two camera show I'm on now has three Alexa bodies.




                  My current show has three Alexa bodies rented direct from Arri GB.

                  I've swapped over two of those three bodies so far due to faults in the camera in the first few weeks of shooting.

                  We also had a "bug" where the clip on the camera became corrupted if the camera has an external TC clock fitted and the TC updates during a record event. Codex only charged us 1500 to recover the clip. This was a month ago.

                  All Alexa. All Arri supplied and rented.

                  All cameras have issues and failures. Any professional plans for them.

                  JB
                  This looks to me like a bunch of baloney and deflection.

                  Everyone knows the rate of BM failures is way above the industry average.

                  How many Arris do you have to pull the battery on to shut it off?

                  How many Arris do updates and they brick the batteries?

                  It's like the continents have shifted and de Nile is now in Australia.
                  Last edited by RAWlover; 10-29-2019, 07:21 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                    This looks to me like a bunch of baloney and deflection.
                    It's my first hand experience.

                    Originally posted by RAWlover View Post

                    Everyone knows the rate of BM failures is way above the industry average.

                    What's the average. Please do point out where these industry averages are being referenced from. Is it as a percentage ? Is it as a total number ? Are they complied by an industry body ? Or are you making up it all up based on your trolling of internet forums ?

                    Originally posted by RAWlover View Post

                    How many Arris do you have to pull the battery on to shut it off?
                    That actually was pretty much the fault I had a few weeks ago actually. The display started running off a bunch of code, kind of reminded me of they old days of the BIOS on a PC starting up. The camera crashed and we had to pull the power.

                    I've never had to pull the battery on any of the many BMD cameras i've owned. (EDIT aside from pre-release prototypes that never were on public code)

                    Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                    How many Arris do updates and they brick the batteries?
                    I doubt that is what's happening with BMD cameras.

                    Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                    It's like the continents have shifted and de Nile is now in Australia.
                    So great that as an anonymous poster you get to collect every single instance of a failure of the many thousands of BMD cameras out there and report them all back here no matter if they're real or operator error or not. It's a dedicated job you have posting which such a vindictive and negative approach to anybody mentioning BMD cameras having an issue or dare I say having a good experience. They must have really pissed you off for some reason.

                    In my real world personal actual experience of using many cameras for many thousands of hours I've not found the factory supplied BMD cameras I have any better or worse at failing than any other brand of cameras I've used, and I have used most of them. What's your extensive experience again ? Reading other problem posts on forums ?

                    You are an anonymous poster who likes to vaguely mention other unverified second hand information as fact to gleefully remind everyone how rubbish BMD are. Thanks for the service you do us all.


                    JB

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I was under the impression many years ago that on this forum, along with many industry forums, that your username had to be your real name. Certainly helps filter out the trolls. But alas, this forum is completely devoid of moderation.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Well JB, at least on this occasion he has quoted your entire post instead of just a portion of it and then twisted it out of context which he normally do to others.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                          This looks to me like a bunch of baloney and deflection.

                          Everyone knows the rate of BM failures is way above the industry average.

                          How many Arris do you have to pull the battery on to shut it off?

                          How many Arris do updates and they brick the batteries?

                          It's like the continents have shifted and de Nile is now in Australia.
                          Seriously man this is completely retarded, Do BM products have issues that some other products don't ? of course, they also offer alexa level image quality for the price of a day shoot FFS.
                          I've been using bm for over half a decade and had zero issues, usually when I see other people issues it's either user error or simply not understanding, that doesn't mean there isnt issues but other camera companies have been making products for 5 decades, BM's first camera came out is 2013, considering they are that young, and have that high level performace for that cheap you can't expect it to be flawless and comprehendable by a 12 year old. if you want a honda civic go buy one.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            A lot of successful people aren't the nicest people.

                            Just saw something in the news about someone wanting to know who their whistle blower is.

                            It's something bullies want to know.

                            Comparing Arri to BM as if they have the same failure rate is ubsurd.

                            It like a Fiat dealer saying, yeah all new cars have some failures even Toyota, as to suggest a Fiat is as reliable as a Toyota.

                            Sometimes people don't like being called out.
                            Last edited by RAWlover; 10-30-2019, 06:40 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Well said RAWlover !

                              There are two very definite camps here on this issue. Those who will clearly over look what really can't be ignored and those who are prepared to call out what they are seeing.

                              I really dont get why some people are die hard unwilling to admit there ARE some problems with BMD stuff SOMETIMES. The real question is the SOMETIMES more than the industry standard. If it is then its a problem that should be addressed. If it's not then we have to suck it up and hope we are not the one who gets the lemon.

                              You watch - those who are crying foul on this will the ones back on the forum here whinging the loudest when it hits THEM.
                              Last edited by M&M's; 10-30-2019, 08:14 AM. Reason: typo's

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X