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Advice - UMP dead after 1.5 years - Support declining to help.

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  • #76
    Originally posted by pharpsied View Post
    the board repair literally costs more than the camera...
    That's not even close to being true.

    The loyalty price was $3500.

    What is close to being true is another dead BM camera.

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    • #77
      I have arrived at a similar conclusion regarding an older "big" URSA 4K where the price of the replacement part exceeds the worth of the camera even though the original URSA 4K with its global shutter is for me close to the best of the lot. The construction method of the "big" URSA is such that the main processing board which manages all functions does everything and has many of the plugs and sockets hardwired in to comprise one assembly which has to be shoehorned in. It is a bitter pill to swallow but the reality seems that like some footwear with expected failure rates, a manufacturer supplies say 100 units plus an extra 20 for no-argument warranty replacement and factors that cost versus running a comprehensive repair/parts service and supply chain. BM seems to be good in that regard until the product runs out of expected warranty or becomes EOL. On the RED forums there are similar tales of woe and lamentation when it comes to older product. I should not be a gutsaching sod because I bought the camera used. However after having invested in recording media, plus a lot of time and effort into building unique Nikon mounts and a focal reducer arrangement to match it better to the BM 4.6K offerings, the damn thing laid down after a three months sleep.

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      • #78
        This is my 30 year old Sony Handycam Hi8. Hell, it's still working today.

        handycam.jpg

        Truly, they don't make things like they use too.

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        • #79
          So true. However, that is probably why the major players were then only trickling out small increments of improved tech in a succession of new models rather than making quantum leaps, to keep the sheep buying new units. SI, RED and then BM turned that game on its head. The SI2K became obsolete and unloved after 35mm sized sensors were introduced. It matters little that it was as reliable as the big players' older gear. Every Sony cam I have still works. One broke a little nylon gear and the part was obtainable. The electronics have lasted the distance.
          Last edited by Robert Hart; 10-05-2019, 10:37 AM. Reason: error

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          • #80
            I feel for the OP.

            You really expect things to live beyond the implied working life that a warranty generates.

            In australia, consumer laws actually protect against these kinds of issues. They basically say that the warranty should reasonably last beyond what the manufacturer is prepared to usually offer.

            Recently the ACCC took on Apple over this kind of issue and basically they found that Australian consume rprotection law trumps the manufacturer warranty in certain situations. I expect this is exactly the kind of situation envisaged by the consumer protections laws.

            https://www.smh.com.au/money/insuran...11-p4z8xj.html

            I would try to have this escalated beyond the local support person that you're talking to.

            As to reliability...

            I'm shooting a series for Hulu in the UK right at the moment.

            I was looking at Arri Alexa Studio camera and Arri media basically said to me they can't repair them anymore and the ones they have are on the edge of being serviceable.

            This is their top shelf camera model until just recently, and they mentioned an individual that paid top price for one only a little while ago now couldn't get the sensor looked at. They mentioned him because they would likely want to SUB RENT his camera as they felt they couldn't service my job reliably if I chose Studios and his was the most recent copy of the Studio.

            We went with SXT's. So far I've returned two of the three bodies for replacement bodies after 4 weeks of shooting. We also discovered a major bug. Using the Ambient wireless Nano timecode boxes, when running in external mode, can cause file corruption if the TC updates midway through recording.

            We lost footage. When we went through the process of finding out why, Arri came back with "It's a known bug". So we didn't discover it. We just didn't know about it. We had to send the media to Codex who charged £1500 to recover the file.

            That kind of thing pisses me off. When it's known and yet, there's no statement anywhere that I can find about it.

            One of them wouldn't read the Lens data files for some reason.

            The B body keeps crashing and generating lot's of weird screens that remind me of what DOS used to look like. (this body has now been swapped as well)

            Oh. And we had a black hole sun issue on some shots in the forest on day 1. :-)

            So this idea that Arri are super reliable and bullet proof with great backup service isn't exactly the truth all the time either. I've had a 66% failure rate with my Arri's on this shoot in the first few weeks, on a high profile job renting from Arri themselves. The two G2's shooting BRAW have been working just fine by the way.

            JB

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            • #81
              John Brawley. How old in hours of use were the ARRIs compared to the BM G2s?

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              • #82
                Why are we even comparing this to Arri for *** sake?

                That is so dismissive.

                $3k out of BMs pocket to replace a 1.5 year old dead camera in good faith won't break the bank.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                  Why are we even comparing this to Arri for *** sake?
                  Others in this thread referenced them as a bench mark. It's a commonly held point of difference.

                  Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                  That is so dismissive.

                  Just like you are of anyone who has a positive BMD story or post.

                  I mean it must take a lot of energy to monitor this forum just so you can exclaim with glee everytime someone with a problem posts. I can't recall a single time you've ever contributed to a thread with straight up help or advice other than to take a shot at your favourite company.

                  Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                  $3k out of BMs pocket to replace a 1.5 year old dead camera in good faith won't break the bank.
                  The story isn't finished yet. Let's see what happens with the outstanding request he's mentioned. I think it's a rough deal no doubt and I would expect a better answer.

                  JB

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Robert Hart View Post
                    John Brawley. How old in hours of use were the ARRIs compared to the BM G2s?
                    I didn't actually look at the hours to be honest. They are SXT so they are not going to be very old cameras. Hours meters are a bit misleading in the era of digital cinema cameras. Hours used to count more when you had magnetic heads flying around.

                    The G2's I have are just over 12 months and have seen a lot of use on the previous season of the show I did in Atlanta before this one in London.

                    JB

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                    • #85
                      John Brawley.


                      Is your London show the same medical drama series or another? I enjoyed that one.

                      There is an interesting conundrum. Like taxis, a purely electronic camera can be worked to death and still be in better functional condition than a barely used one with only a few hours up which may lay itself to rest in the same calendar period.

                      The SI2K I have was a P+S demo camera and had experienced a lot of use. It is still kicking. My poor old "big" URSA, not so lucky. It had apparently been put aside when replaced by an URSA Mini 4.6k under the no 4.6K turret loyalty deal and was later sold to me. I probably should have operated it frequently to keep it interested in life. A three+ months sleep might be what finally sent it off.

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                      • #86
                        Yes. I have noticed that if I don't turn on my Production 4K periodically it will start to get electrical gremlins. I’m sure if I forgot about it it would perish.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Robert Hart View Post
                          John Brawley.


                          Is your London show the same medical drama series or another? I enjoyed that one.
                          Thanks. This is an entirely different show. The resident is going into season 3 right now. I just had to help them source some UMP's as they want to continue to use them the way I established in the first two seasons.


                          Originally posted by Robert Hart View Post

                          There is an interesting conundrum. Like taxis, a purely electronic camera can be worked to death and still be in better functional condition than a barely used one with only a few hours up which may lay itself to rest in the same calendar period.
                          It's long been the case that anything electronic and that you want to be stable, should just stay on. It's the on and off cycles that are the most critical. Leaving it on means it tends to stay stable.

                          Telecine machines back int he day used to remain on. They beam would generally have a shelf life of a few thousand hours and so the costs of running the machine with or without film was the same really.

                          Monitors are the same. In most high end grading suites they don't turn monitors on and off. They stay on, usually parked on a neutral screen to prevent burn in.

                          JB

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                          • #88
                            [QUOTE=RAWlover;266531]

                            "$3k out of BMs pocket to replace a 1.5 year old dead camera in good faith won't break the bank."


                            I would not be so sure. It would depend upon how tightly the company is operating, what exposure to liability could be generated and what margins are harvested over cost of production and future R and D, which must be funded from current revenue or loans which have to be redeemed in the future. -

                            As a goodwill gesture it would make very good sense to put right this customer's issue. One of course does not know how many other aggrieved customers would become enlivened to beat upon Blackmagic Design's door once the word got out.

                            The necessity of the "big" URSA turret upgrade cancellation must have given BM a heavy-duty scare. When something you invest your heart and soul, time and effort into inventing and making turns around and ambushes you, it is no fun.

                            If remedy occurs outside of warranty or by legislated obligation beyond warranty, if every party has good common sense, it might also include a non-disclosure undertaking by the initiator of this thread who may simply go quiet and the topic step its way down the index page into the fog of history back.
                            Last edited by Robert Hart; 10-07-2019, 12:26 AM. Reason: error

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
                              Yes. I have noticed that if I don't turn on my Production 4K periodically it will start to get electrical gremlins. Iím sure if I forgot about it it would perish.
                              So it's like flossing?

                              The only old BM cameras you need to occasionally power on are the ones you want to keep.

                              I just turned one of mine on that I don't use super often and it showed a date of 1999.

                              A day later the later the date is still ok.

                              The battery showed 50% power when I first turned it on from a long time of not being on.
                              Last edited by RAWlover; 10-07-2019, 07:14 AM.

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                              • #90
                                I use to leave my Production 4k on for a whole day sometimes longer while doing time lapse. Its still works fine but I hardly use it these days.

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