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Veydra, independent lens manufacturer, closes up shop.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by catscratch View Post
    You might be right John, but then again Meike is a lens manufacturer and they have announced the release of cine focal lengths beyond the original Veydra line due in late 2019/early 2020.

    And Denny, although I admire your loyalty, enough of the virtue signalling, you've sold your Veydras and moved onto another system.

    But....

    How do you know that design isn’t also one that doesn’t belong to them ?

    I don’t know the history, but I’m certain that there would have been a roadmap, probably a designed road map.

    I’d never heard of Meike before Veydra. Did they make lenses before they somehow came up with identical lenses to Veydra ?

    Everyone has to make their own judgement on how much they care about these issues but I’m of the view that generally those that put in the work and great something should be able to see a reward for that work.

    JB

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    • #17
      Originally posted by catscratch View Post
      You might be right John, but then again Meike is a lens manufacturer and they have announced the release of cine focal lengths beyond the original Veydra line due in late 2019/early 2020.

      And Denny, although I admire your loyalty, enough of the virtue signalling, you've sold your Veydras and moved onto another system.
      If someone had taken your footage, re-shot it it exactly, and then gone to your client you shot the original footage for and offered their services for a small percentage of what you charge, I don't think you'd be happy about it.

      Ryan got completely cheated. Meike continues to turn the screws. This is not a question of loyalty or virtue. It's about basic right and wrong.

      I find it difficult to read posts that suggest we just let it go. Standing up for this sort of behavior and having the attitude that it's inevitable is the reason these sorts of things happen in the first place.

      Standing up for what's right is the only way we can combat this sort of deception.

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      • #18
        Meike were established in Hong Kong in 2005. Whether it was startup or evolved from another operation on the mainland is difficult to establish for a non Chinese speaker. Veydra started with a 2014 Kickstarter campaign as far as I know.

        You might know something I don't, but on the available evidence, there's an argument to support the proposition that there's more to this than meets the eye. We've heard Ryan's story (kinda and through proxies, mostly) but are yet to hear Meike's position. I've read (and/or surmised) all sorts of variations on a theme about the Veydra partner dispute but two things that might provide a hint as to what transpired and that is the court case appears to be over and Meike's rollout in the U.S has accelerated. This might suggest that Meike have a more legitimate position (either natural or acquired) than the current narrative might suggest.
        The Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera - what it says on the box!

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        • #19
          It sounds like you've made up your mind as have lots of us here. Meike is fortunate to have you supporting their position. I think they have little incentive to promote the blow by blow details of how this has taken place? Ryan is legally bound to refrain from engaging in any conversation at all.

          I'm not out to start a battle here, only to state that I'd hoped to find this place a community that stood for higher values. Not likely an argument that should be made on the internet.

          Happy shooting.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by catscratch View Post
            Meike were established in Hong Kong in 2005. Whether it was startup or evolved from another operation on the mainland is difficult to establish for a non Chinese speaker. Veydra started with a 2014 Kickstarter campaign as far as I know.

            You might know something I don't, but on the available evidence, there's an argument to support the proposition that there's more to this than meets the eye. We've heard Ryan's story (kinda and through proxies, mostly) but are yet to hear Meike's position. I've read (and/or surmised) all sorts of variations on a theme about the Veydra partner dispute but two things that might provide a hint as to what transpired and that is the court case appears to be over and Meike's rollout in the U.S has accelerated. This might suggest that Meike have a more legitimate position (either natural or acquired) than the current narrative might suggest.
            I know Ryan personally.

            No matter if the dispute is over, I think it's still clear that the originator and developer of these designs, or at the very least, 50% of that ownership, has been kicked out of his own company and lost his IP.

            Like on another thread here, it's sad to see the encouragement of the theft of IP.

            Everyone has to make their own choice about how they feel, but I personally have some moral issues with supporting these lenses with what I understand of the background.

            JB

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            • #21
              I agree John, I didn’t buy Smallrig knock offs of Wooden Camera designs either. Ryan basically got ripped off by his partner in Hong Kong, who took his designs and the Veydra name over to Meike, without Ryan’s knowledge, let alone his approval, so he lost out on his IP, and share of the company.
              Cheers

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              • #22
                I might be wrong, but my understanding was, that Ryan got the idea for the lenses, did the kickstarter campaign and the marketing, but the lenses were designed by his partner Zhang and produced in China. So I am not sure if there is another side to the story. While I understand that people here who know Ryan personally feel a sense of loyalty and urge to defend him, to me this looks like a dispute between two former business partners, probably about money (as always) and different opinions how to run things.
                I have personally experienced such situations several times in my life. Even super nice people can sometimes do very ugly things.

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                • #23
                  From my understanding the lens design was a collaborative effort by several individuals. But Robert, you are right, we do not have all the details, but Ryan had a good enough case to get to court with, and he was part owner of the business, including the designs.
                  Cheers

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Robert Niessner View Post
                    I might be wrong, but my understanding was, that Ryan got the idea for the lenses, did the kickstarter campaign and the marketing, but the lenses were designed by his partner Zhang and produced in China. So I am not sure if there is another side to the story. While I understand that people here who know Ryan personally feel a sense of loyalty and urge to defend him, to me this looks like a dispute between two former business partners, probably about money (as always) and different opinions how to run things.
                    I have personally experienced such situations several times in my life. Even super nice people can sometimes do very ugly things.
                    Robert, that's about my take on the issue. I'm not suggesting that Ryan resembles in any way your last comment, but in this era of Trump Chinese trade wars, it's too easy to fall for the "Chinese are thieves" narrative. I lived and worked in Asia for more than a decade and have seen examples of inept, bad and even criminal behavior on both sides. What doesn't get mentioned as much is the theft of livelihood and human dignity that occurs when western businesses shift production to cheaper offshore locations. That some of these businesses get burnt is kharma IMO.

                    At the end of the day, and notwithstanding more clear cut examples of IP theft, what's more important to me that innovative western companies like Blackmagic and Chinese manufacturing operations have opened up affordable filmmaking to a much larger population.
                    The Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera - what it says on the box!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Bottom line, there is no IP otherwise Ryan would have leverage. Competition friends - that what it is all about. You thrive or sink. That's how business work. I think we all need to move on.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by EYu View Post
                        Bottom line, there is no IP otherwise Ryan would have leverage. Competition friends - that what it is all about. You thrive or sink. That's how business work. I think we all need to move on.
                        Ellory… you try having leverage as an individual in a small company whose partner had deceived you and the leverage in question is home-based in Hong Kong with manufacturing in China. I don't have any intent to challenge your feelings. They are yours to have. I just think that as creatives who populate this group we would stand for higher principles regarding this sort of issue. If business works only to serve those who can connive and duck a fair competition… well that's what you're suggesting. At least that's what I feel.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by catscratch View Post
                          Robert, that's about my take on the issue. I'm not suggesting that Ryan resembles in any way your last comment, but in this era of Trump Chinese trade wars, it's too easy to fall for the "Chinese are thieves" narrative. I lived and worked in Asia for more than a decade and have seen examples of inept, bad and even criminal behavior on both sides. What doesn't get mentioned as much is the theft of livelihood and human dignity that occurs when western businesses shift production to cheaper offshore locations. That some of these businesses get burnt is kharma IMO.

                          At the end of the day, and notwithstanding more clear cut examples of IP theft, what's more important to me that innovative western companies like Blackmagic and Chinese manufacturing operations have opened up affordable filmmaking to a much larger population.
                          I would't back Trump whatever he says. If Trump says the devil is a bad guy I might incline to think the opposite

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