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Red Komodo - BMPCC competitor?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by RomanStone View Post
    "extended video" output that clips the highlights as if it had 8 stops of DR when viewed on the client monitor.
    Extended Video does not clip the highlights and maps the full 15 stops from the 4.6K to fit within Rec.709 dynamic range. Sounds like another issue somewhere.
    Blackmagic Design
    My BMD LUTs.

    **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

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    • #62
      Originally posted by CaptainHook View Post
      Extended Video does not clip the highlights and maps the full 15 stops from the 4.6K to fit within Rec.709 dynamic range. Sounds like another issue somewhere.

      Captain Hook, I like and respect what you usually have to say but I believe this to be a very tongue in cheek, disingenuous response. We all know what I mean - when using the extended the highlights look blown out even though the information is retained. Using a 3rd party LUT to accurately display what is being captured is not ideal for many of us. If I hadn't made that clear I hope it is now. Perhaps me and others who have made threads about this are doing something wrong, but it is not an issue on RED cameras AFAIK. Cheers.

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      • #63
        Not at all tongue in cheek, I see a lot of misinformation spread about colour science in general and also what Extended Video does/doesn't do. I did take what you said literally in that it "clips highlights" which is a very specific thing.

        If you look at the curve of extended video for a couple of cameras, its actually quite gentle as it approaches the highlights, even more so than the 3rd party LUTs I've looked at. But what they do is often lower the clipping point and then flatten the curve so there's less contrast, but in effect that IS clipping the maximum highlight value achievable.

        I don't really see complaints about the 4.6K with extended video and quite often the opposite, most of the "highlight" comments come from P4K/6K users. The issue there is that it has a couple of stops less dynamic range, then couple that with a native ISO400 log curve which has another stop less in the highlights that the 4.6K native ISO800 and that's where I think people run into trouble.

        Here's the curves of extended video for the 4.6K and Pocket 4K FYI, I strongly disagree that these curves causes highlights to look blown out or clipped and I think anyone with experience grading with curves and our cameras could look at them and tell the same thing. I believe the issues come from elsewhere. Also the intention of Extended Video is to offer something with more contrast and saturation than BMDFilm but does NOT clip any data so you can still grade it and tweak it.





        Here's what a Rec.709 type curve looks like FYI, which IS more like 8 stops - specifically note what happens with the highlights/clipping point in comparison.

        Blackmagic Design
        My BMD LUTs.

        **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

        Comment


        • #64
          Here's an example of a popular 3rd party LUT for one of our cameras that I see get talked about and used a lot.

          Notice how the clipping point is lowered. This means the LUT will not allow the brightest part of the image to achieve full specular highlight values - which is a different type of effectively "highlight clipping" in the sense it clips what the highest values can be. There are other issues I see with the LUT but that's not the point being discussed here.

          Blackmagic Design
          My BMD LUTs.

          **Any post by me prior to Aug 2014 was before i started working for Blackmagic**

          Comment


          • #65
            RED would most likely find some way for older cameras to bring it up to spec. The original Ursa Mini 4.6K would have had Braw long ago if RED was in BMD's shoes. For me that is one of the differences between these two companies and why big production at the moment still trusting RED more. Also they don't think their camera quit as disposable after the warranty.

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            • #66
              How could Red bring an older camera up to current specs regarding DR? It's a property of the sensor.
              Yes they had some exchange programs, but for their pricing you could have bought more than one new BM camera.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by RomanStone View Post
                Maybe I don't. But there is an in-camera option officially supported by RED when outputting an image. As far as I know BM's in-camera option for doing the same thing looks absolutely hideous and you have to rely on a 3rd party LUT which is not close to ideal.
                Just like with Red you can load any LUT made to your own taste into a BM camera.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Nomad View Post
                  How could Red bring an older camera up to current specs regarding DR? It's a property of the sensor.
                  Yes they had some exchange programs, but for their pricing you could have bought more than one new BM camera.
                  Within reason of course but BRaw, I mean come on. BMD is more interested in getting 3rd party cameras to shoot BRaw on their new Video Assist than getting UM4.6k to do the same.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Taikonaut View Post
                    Within reason of course but BRaw, I mean come on. BMD is more interested in getting 3rd party cameras to shoot BRaw on their new Video Assist than getting UM4.6k to do the same.
                    It would at least be nice to have the UM46k onto the same color science as UMP G1&2 and PCC4k/6k.

                    I am all in for bashing BMD when they do things wrong, have quality problems or can't repair a camera after warranty's run out.
                    But Roman was implying that the camera is bad because of his user error... I guess they were recording into Video extended AND had the LUT applied which of course makes no sense and makes the output look like crap.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Nomad View Post
                      How could Red bring an older camera up to current specs regarding DR? It's a property of the sensor.
                      Yes they had some exchange programs, but for their pricing you could have bought more than one new BM camera.
                      Improvements in firmware and color science make more of the sensor’s dynamic range usable.

                      Komodo is still an unknown as far as DR, but it should be on par with current gen Reds, even with global shutter.

                      If you start with a sensor that has 15 or 16 stops DR potential and give up a stop to global shutter it isn’t as consequential as losing a stop on a 12 stop sensor like the CMOSIS.
                      Last edited by razz16mm; 11-28-2019, 06:31 AM.

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                      • #71
                        If BMD readily drops firmware enhancement support for their cameras that are even just slightly old and not as current as their latest offering, am I surprise big budget movies and major studios don't have the desire to use their cameras as A-Cam?

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