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Red Komodo - BMPCC competitor?

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  • #46
    Reminds me of those who bought a Sony F23 when they were told that's good for cine work. Only one year later Sony made that obsolete with the F35…

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Nomad View Post
      Reminds me of those who bought a Sony F23 when they were told that's good for cine work. Only one year later Sony made that obsolete with the F35…
      That was a little different.

      Panavision and Sony co-developed the Genesis camera and Sony has agreed to not sell the camera, based on Panavision buying 300 bodies.

      Supposedly after they delivered 100, Panavision cancelled the rest of the order, so Sony decided to release the F35.

      JB

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      • #48
        True, it's not the same story, but cruel nevertheless. A dear friend in Germany lost his business about this.
        For me , it's just another reason not to invest in such high-priced cameras. As said above, you should be able to earn your investment in one year (if it's not just a hobby).

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        • #49
          I'm following Komodo development with interest. Here is what we know about it so far:

          6K resolution, most likely 6120x3600 2:1 Red format. Size not known yet but the most likely format is Gemini size S35+ built on the same 5 micron pixel size as Monstro. (it is not a Monstro sensor, the power and thermal envelope is much lower)
          It uses Canon BP batteries, two slots, that can be hot swapped while shooting.
          It uses C-fast media
          It has at least 4k SDI out
          It is not a modular platform like DSMC2. Still waiting to see what other ports it has other than SDI, mini-jack audio in and Headphone out and a LEMO type aux port with unknown functions. Hoping for a USB-C/TB3 port.
          It has a Canon RC mount with electronic lens controls
          A Hydrogen phone will likely play some role in its operation, but the integration between the two is unknown at this point. The phone does not dock to the camera. I has no onboard controls or displays other than a power switch and record button that we have seen so far, but one side has yet to be revealed.
          Soderbergh is shooting a feature with one of the field test prototypes.



          I'm interested because I have everything I need in the kit to support it already except the camera body (and phone), an RCP to Minolta MD mount adapter, and C-fast media if USB-C SSD is not an option. Canon BP batteries and a Beachtek audio preamp from my old Canon camcorder kit will serve nicely.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Nomad View Post
            Reminds me of those who bought a Sony F23 when they were told that's good for cine work. Only one year later Sony made that obsolete with the F35…
            14 stops of DR with a global shutter in 2008.
            We're still not there yet.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by razz16mm View Post
              I'm following Komodo development with interest. Here is what we know about it so far:

              6K resolution, most likely 6120x3600 2:1 Red format. Size not known yet but the most likely format is Gemini size S35+ built on the same 5 micron pixel size as Monstro. (it is not a Monstro sensor, the power and thermal envelope is much lower)
              It uses Canon BP batteries, two slots, that can be hot swapped while shooting.
              It uses C-fast media
              It has at least 4k SDI out
              It is not a modular platform like DSMC2. Still waiting to see what other ports it has other than SDI, mini-jack audio in and Headphone out and a LEMO type aux port with unknown functions. Hoping for a USB-C/TB3 port.
              It has a Canon RC mount with electronic lens controls
              A Hydrogen phone will likely play some role in its operation, but the integration between the two is unknown at this point. The phone does not dock to the camera. I has no onboard controls or displays other than a power switch and record button that we have seen so far, but one side has yet to be revealed.
              Soderbergh is shooting a feature with one of the field test prototypes.



              I'm interested because I have everything I need in the kit to support it already except the camera body (and phone), an RCP to Minolta MD mount adapter, and C-fast media if USB-C SSD is not an option. Canon BP batteries and a Beachtek audio preamp from my old Canon camcorder kit will serve nicely.

              Does it bring anything new to the table? The BMPCC6K is already here and shipping, costs $2,500 (less then half the price) with a monitor and dosen't need a specific overpriced but mediocre phone to work (although it can be controlled remotely by any bluetooth phone / tablet on the market). Yes the Canon RF mount is nice, although you need to factor the price of adapters etc, and native RF lenses are hideously expensive - but otherwise, it just hype - the kind RED are known for.


              Unless this thing has some mind blowing dynamic range, I can't see what the fuss is about, honestly. But RED would never release a camera costing a fifth or a sixth of the price of their comparable camera - and give it better specs. That would make their $30k+ cameras instantly obsolete and piss off their customers even more then the Red Mag fraud.
              Last edited by SottoTerra; 08-25-2019, 02:06 AM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                14 stops of DR with a global shutter in 2008.
                We're still not there yet.
                They can be found for $5k on e-bay these days - although the condition and remaining lifespan is unknown. Saw several multi million features filmed with it (or the Genesis - the Panavision version) and the picture was (and still is) outstanding. It's a crying shame Sony didn't use and develop the CCD technology they invented for the F35 further - but I figure it was a dead end commercially, with each sensor probably costings several times more then what the F35 sells for today second hand.

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                • #53
                  The sensor is slightly larger than S35 27.03mm x 14.25mm. Its non-proprietary media comming in at $5k-6k

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                  • #54
                    A lot of RED haters in this thread. Nobody i know who works in the commercial world professionally uses blackmagic cameras. The image out of a Gemini is beautiful SOOC and doesn't have some ridiculous "extended video" output that clips the highlights as if it had 8 stops of DR when viewed on the client monitor.

                    I love BM, but they are not viable tools yet when there is big money on the line. Say what you want about RED, but there is a reason why they are the industry standard at least in my field. We are excited for the komodo and to think that people are saying "just bring a bmpcc4k on set instead" is a little bit of a fantasy. Just my opinion

                    P.s. I'd also lile to add that I think bm's cameras are fantastic for the price point. They are improving with every model and as long as you're OK with being their Guinea pigs they are well worth the price, but they have a bit of ways to go before you can show up for a national ad campaign with one.
                    Last edited by RomanStone; 11-26-2019, 07:02 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by RomanStone View Post
                      A lot of RED haters in this thread.
                      Really? Cite the hate please.
                      Not sharing your opinion does not equate hate...

                      Originally posted by RomanStone View Post
                      Nobody i know who works in the commercial world professionally uses blackmagic cameras.
                      Well, then the world you know might be too small.

                      Originally posted by RomanStone View Post
                      The image out of a Gemini is beautiful SOOC and doesn't have some ridiculous "extended video" output that clips the highlights as if it had 8 stops of DR when viewed on the client monitor.
                      Or you could just read the camera manual and learn about the difference in using film, video, extended video and LUTs. Don't ridicule yourself by showing that you had no idea that you could set an output LUT for the client monitor in the BM cameras.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Robert Niessner View Post
                        Really? Cite the hate please.
                        Not sharing your opinion does not equate hate...



                        Well, then the world you know might be too small.



                        Or you could just read the camera manual and learn about the difference in using film, video, extended video and LUTs. Don't ridicule yourself by showing that you had no idea that you could set an output LUT for the client monitor in the BM cameras.
                        This is the type of condescending bullshit I'd expect to see in the youtube comment section and speaks exactly to my point. I don't know what fantasy you are living in and quite frankly after your post I don't care. I will repeat again, nobody uses BM cameras when there are serious budgets involved in the commercial world. All the big studios here don't even offer them in their rental packages. Everybody I know who had a BM camera at one point used that camera (successfully) in their own businesses and eventually purchased a RED. Do you understand what kind of reputation you need to be able to have in order to convince a client like Vogue, Guess, Tom Ford, etc. that you will be bringing a BMPCC4k or Ursa Mini to a shoot for a nationwide campaign?

                        As far as using a LUT for a client preview, are you kidding me? Nobody likes doing that. I can only see that being a thing on film sets. We want to be able to get as close as we possibly can to the client's vision SOOC. Our focus is on lighting, not about how to output a LOG profile that doesn't look like shit. It's just another variable that we really don't want to worry about. You are the one exposing yourself as ridiculous. Nobody wants to manipulate the image before it even lands in post, and even then it's usually tweaked because the image out of a RED is that good.

                        You are right though, the world I know is small. It's a world that includes very successful DP's and Camera Ops (usually one and the same) that consistently book huge campaigns and know how to run a set and shoot a damn good commercial.

                        I'll say it again - BM cameras are awesome. I think they're amazing pieces of gear for the price point and I am sure you can get just as good of a final image with those cameras as you could with a RED or ARRI. I own three. But as close as they are, they are not ready for the big leagues yet. I have no doubt that this will change in the next 3-5 years, but until then I will be anxiously waiting for the Komodo. Have a great day.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by RomanStone View Post
                          This is the type of condescending bullshit I'd expect to see in the youtube comment section and speaks exactly to my point. I don't know what fantasy you are living in and quite frankly after your post I don't care. I will repeat again, nobody uses BM cameras when there are serious budgets involved in the commercial world.
                          Well, you set the tone with your own posting.
                          Anyway - NEWSFLASH - there is a world outside USA. Shocking, I know. Not everything revolves around your country.

                          Originally posted by RomanStone View Post
                          As far as using a LUT for a client preview, are you kidding me? Nobody likes doing that. I can only see that being a thing on film sets. We want to be able to get as close as we possibly can to the client's vision SOOC. Our focus is on lighting, not about how to output a LOG profile that doesn't look like shit. It's just another variable that we really don't want to worry about. You are the one exposing yourself as ridiculous. Nobody wants to manipulate the image before it even lands in post, and even then it's usually tweaked because the image out of a RED is that good.
                          OK, these lines clearly show me that you still got no clue about what's an output LUT - or how do you think the RED cameras do produce the output for the client monitor?


                          Originally posted by RomanStone View Post
                          You are right though, the world I know is small. It's a world that includes very successful DP's and Camera Ops (usually one and the same) that consistently book huge campaigns and know how to run a set and shoot a damn good commercial.
                          Aha. So you know some successful DPs. Great for you, but I am not impressed buy you throwing "I know some important people" stuff.

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                          • #58
                            Just to be clear: I have nothing against RED cameras.
                            I responded solely to your strange comments.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Robert Niessner View Post
                              Well, you set the tone with your own posting.
                              Anyway - NEWSFLASH - there is a world outside USA. Shocking, I know. Not everything revolves around your country.



                              OK, these lines clearly show me that you still got no clue about what's an output LUT - or how do you think the RED cameras do produce the output for the client monitor?




                              Aha. So you know some successful DPs. Great for you, but I am not impressed buy you throwing "I know some important people" stuff.
                              Maybe I don't. But there is an in-camera option officially supported by RED when outputting an image. As far as I know BM's in-camera option for doing the same thing looks absolutely hideous and you have to rely on a 3rd party LUT which is not close to ideal.

                              I dont know how this turned into "not everything revolves around the USA" but its clear to me you have no interest in my point of view other than to play some sort of strange antagonistic victim.

                              We are all here to make money. I'm simply providing what I've seen with my own two eyes in one of the largest commercial hubs in the world. Take or leave its but do so without a condescending attitude. Cheers.

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                              • #60
                                It looks actually pretty nice. I must say I love the footage coming out of RED's since the MX sensor. If I had the money I'd probably buy one.
                                Álex Montoya on IMDB
                                https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0600257/

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