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Red Komodo - BMPCC competitor?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post
    I just don’t see the ursa design being durable enough to venture out on location sets for 10 years without issues.
    Cameras get better and cheaper in much faster intervals. When the time comes, you won't be shooting on an Ursa anymore anyways.

    Originally posted by misterkofa View Post
    It seems they're scrambling to pull attention away from their media controversy.
    Yeah I think the same. Also from the complete Hydrogen 1 failure. Don't think Komodo will offer much for non RED guys.
    Last edited by stip; 08-01-2019, 10:09 AM.

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    • #32
      I was one of the first users of a Red One in my country. Nobody had any confidence in them at the time (else Peter Jackson, maybe).
      That Red One is still alive, BTW, but it normally rests in it's storage as long as no other camera is avaiable to our students. They hate the weight (never seen an URSA).

      What is more challenging for equipment than film students? All above mentioned cameras were used by students and as already written, none was completely free of issues.
      Please remember that Red was once considered cheap and unreliable by most of the industry, when the only alternative was a Sony F23 or a Panavision Gemini (aka F35) for a quarter million.
      I've seen a Sony 750 break down for away from civilization on an important shoot.

      And then I was working with a test facility (Nordmedia) for years, and we had all kinds of electronic cameras and I have seen all kinds of issues from top brands.
      One of the worst was the D21 by Arri, which you can only count as 'nice try', and where are they now?

      Finally, my personal UMP 4.6K G1 has no problems at all. I don't care for the surroundings when shooting, but care for my equipment.
      Last edited by Nomad; 08-01-2019, 06:18 PM.

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      • #33
        My OG BMCC & BMPCC both still run flawlessly today 5 years later.

        All brands have their hiccups and bad eggs. Back in the day I bought a brand new GH2 that was delivered DOA. Over the years I've ran into a tiny handful of problems with Sony, Panasonic, Red, and Blackmagic, but I'd never consider any of those brands unreliable.

        Blackmagic carries a very unfair reputation for being unreliable, and a part of me believes that this reputation is aggressively perpetuated by competitors. My experience with Blackmagic has always been positive.
        Last edited by Bob Loblaw; 08-02-2019, 05:29 AM.

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        • #34
          I'd also like to chime in on part of camera reliability.
          Like Nomand, I was one of the first users of a RED One in my country. On set we had no issues whatsoever with our RED One, but I heard some horror stories told by other camera men who had heard those horror stories from other camera men...
          It is bitter if any camera dies in the middle of a shoot or has issues. But in the end anecdotal experience is just anecdotal experience and not the sum of all facts.
          I have a BMCC from 2013, an UM46k from 2017, an UMP G1 from 2018, and the PCC4k from 2018. Reliability has been great so far.
          I've shot in the snowy mountains out in the cold, in summer in mesmerizing heat, in tight supply tunnels, at ground fault high voltage experiments from an energy supplier, in dust and dirt.
          Last edited by Robert Niessner; 08-02-2019, 07:47 AM.

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          • #35
            It's easy to forget that half the reputation of Arri's stability comes from their relationship with Panavision and the service that you get with those contracts. On The Detour we sent back two Alexa Mini bodies because of a dead pixel on one and a green channel QA failure on the other, but Panavision being Panavision we had new bodies within 12-36 hours of complaint. On In Plainview we had unacceptable black level noise on our first Alexa classic body and Panavision flew us a new body from Toronto overnight.

            Also just while we're dumping stuff, I've seen a RED One overheat while shooting outdoors in Canadian winter.

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            • #36
              I think BlackMagic got a bad rap from the early on bodies BMCC BM4K and BMPCC. I had issues with these.... I can say BM took care of the problem quick and easy and I didn’t spend $10’sK+ and have to wait 3 weeks because I’m not Peter Jackson or one of the beautiful......

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              • #37
                It's not just their bodies. I know pros who won't use their cards because of reliability issues. It seems like they have a lot of QA issues. And you can cherry pick the one or two higher end cameras with issues but even lots of new and sample cameras like the BMP4K have had bad switches, squeals. With BM there's no cherry picking. The broken fruit is on the ground. Look at even the G2 reliability posts. It's endemic.

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                • #38
                  I’m just very suspicious of these internet claims. Troll farms used to attack competition are a dime a dozen and can be had for pennies on the dollar. Both the BMPCC4K & the G2 were getting negative reviews on B&H long before the camera was even in tester hands. These reviews were fake, and were eventually removed.

                  In the real world I’ve never experienced these issues, nor have I known anyone who did. The only epidemic here is misinformation.

                  If you go to Amazon, there is a reason most of the name brand electronics have mediocre to bad reviews, and all of the Chinese knock off equivalents have glowing reviews.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                    Look at even the G2 reliability posts. It's endemic.
                    Define endemic for me.

                    Then show me the endemic posts about the endemic issues with the G2.

                    I just had a quick look on the two biggest FB pages for Ursa Mini Pro users and the only one I could find was a non G2 Ursa with an issue that was out of warranty. By the way it was from a week ago and there’s a bunch of other spots that are of G2 rigs, not of problems with G2 cameras.

                    Please do tell us of the endemic problems. Specifically is what I’m asking. Cause that’s a specific word that to me means widespread and prevalent.

                    The front page of this forum didn’t have a single G2 issue posted either so I’m just scratching my head about how you keep coming up with these claims.

                    JB

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                    • #40
                      Well Ive seen my share of G2 issues on the FB page. From weird glitching on the LCD to a dude this week whose LCD display wont display anything nor the outside display. How abundant are these issues overall...I have no idea as I've seen alot of posts of g2 owners having no issues.

                      I shot part of a commercial on my friend's G2 last week and the footage looks great. I had one issue...but I think that was a card issue. For some reason the card was not recognized by any computer (pc or mac). Putting the card back into the camera, the camera could play back the files...so the files were fine. I;ve never had any issue with that card (prograde digital 256) in the one year that I have been using it with my UMP G1. Anyway we got the footage off the card after using a recovery program.

                      I pick up my G2 this week, hoping everything works out fine. My G1 has been solid since I received it a year ago.
                      Darren Scott
                      Freelance Director/Director of Photography


                      https://vimeo.com/jambredzvisions/videos

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                      • #41
                        There's a really simple way to solve this problem. Have better QA.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by RAWlover View Post
                          There's a really simple way to solve this problem. Have better QA.
                          Blackmagic have far better QA then RED other and major cinema camera manufacturers. Problem is they are sometimes perceived as mainstream consumer products rather then the niche' specialised tools they are, with skewed expectations.

                          From my experience their cameras have been rock solid.... I had filmed in RAW for a whole day in hot humid conditions, stopping only to switch cards (had an external powerbank). The camera was warm to the touch but kept on working happily and I had some solid 'B' roll at the end. Know freelancers who use the Broadcast 4k and others who use the Ursa, and they're delighted with their cameras who churned out award winning television serieses with them.

                          Sure there are problems, speaking about the BMPCC; the OIS with newer Panasonic lenses (which even Lumix cameras have problems with) or the recent compatibility issues with newer V30 cards, but to me these are par for the course, and don't detract from a great, dependable bargain priced cinema camera. There are also design issues like the next to useless internal screen or the overly fragile HDMI port....... but again, these are minor issues which are easy to work around.

                          RED heavily censors anything said abot their products, and only fanboy or 'paidfor' publicity stuff gets filtered out. Remember when Philip Bloom got a faulty RED camera after mortaging his house to buy one, there were several threats of law suits when he wrote objectively about his experience, and several forum posts from RED's Trump like CEO. Philip Bloom didn't shy back and replied in tune, until finally they gave him a refund...... RED also sued another English blogger (OCDHD site I think) just for making a joke about their loud fans and lousy reliability.

                          Arri and Panavision have impeccable service support (with a price to match) and the professionals who use them are mature enough to know that no tool is perfect - the other manufacturers do get their share of flack.

                          Had bought two Sony tape camcorders at a huge expense (for my budget) and both developed problems in the tape mechanism within a few years. A friend couldn't use his EX3 for months due to manufacturing defect with his IR filter, and it was righly his last Sony. JVC also had compatibility issues with SDXC cards and would fry incompatible cards.

                          Blackmagic offer unrivalled image quality for the price, and have never screwed their customers (see RED media fraud scandal), they'll get my money anytime.
                          Last edited by SottoTerra; 08-06-2019, 02:52 AM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by GeranSimpson View Post

                            I just donít see the ursa design being durable enough to venture out on location sets for 10 years without issues. Not at all..
                            Come on...

                            I just returned from shooting 3 weeks in Afrika without any trouble. My 2011 original BMCC saw a month of shooting in Canada snow storms an freezing weather,
                            as well as the damp jungles of Vietnam. Battled as hell, but still working flawlessly - after 8 years - as on day one.
                            BM cameras are build like little tanks.
                            Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

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                            • #44
                              I think,the biggest concern re professional product is that there doesn't seem to be repair service out of warranty. Most people would consider an ursa class camera to be a 3-5 year working life investment at least and if you are unlucky enough to get one that dies in 18 months and can't get it fixed you would be pretty bummed about it.

                              The problem is that the economic model doesn't jibe with that. If you are a working professional you should have cleared enough rentals to pay off the camera in well under a year. In profit compared to renting Alexa mini or similar. Slide your profits into a back up camera, if you have one die you write down the loss. You're still ahead of the game vs financing and maintaining a $50k camera. Repairs aren't free, and if service runs more than 10% of purchase price of that high end camera, that is the price of new ursa body.

                              If you are a hobbyist why would you buy an ursa when a P4k is good enough for a hobby budget.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by dop16mm View Post
                                I think,the biggest concern re professional product is that there doesn't seem to be repair service out of warranty. Most people would consider an ursa class camera to be a 3-5 year working life investment at least and if you are unlucky enough to get one that dies in 18 months and can't get it fixed you would be pretty bummed about it.

                                The problem is that the economic model doesn't jibe with that. If you are a working professional you should have cleared enough rentals to pay off the camera in well under a year. In profit compared to renting Alexa mini or similar. Slide your profits into a back up camera, if you have one die you write down the loss. You're still ahead of the game vs financing and maintaining a $50k camera. Repairs aren't free, and if service runs more than 10% of purchase price of that high end camera, that is the price of new ursa body.
                                I happened to be out at Arri Media in London yesterday.

                                I'm about to start a new show and I have always liked the Alexa studio (global shutter).

                                This was never a popular camera, even though it was their most expensive model. I think the new price was well over the 100K mark.

                                He told me that the two that they still have are not in good condition as the sensors have some bad pixels and it's not that easy to fix / repair them. They won't send them out on rental any more and they've been "written off". They are less than 5 years old.

                                He also said that there's two others at a rental company that are in the same situation, but they are still renting them even though the sensor is "failing", or not meeting their QC standards.

                                He said there was another individual who owned one that had been fully optioned (you have to pay for many of the Arri firmware upgrades and options like high speed and RAW recording etc) and he couldn't give it away, even though he'd sunk nearly 200K into it.

                                JB

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