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  • haha yeah exactly I am sure those canon, sony, panasonic, red employees would feel feel butthurt everytime they see the name blackmagic raw codec coming up in their camera. Genius move from blackmagic.

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    • However Resolve is dirt-cheap compared to other software, and it's basically a life-long upgrade garanty right now. Why would that be their bread-and-butter?

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      • I don't see this codec being any different than other manufacturer specific camera codecs. Redcode, or ARRIraw or Canon Raw lite for instance. Making the software SDK freely available just insures rapid wide adoption into industry standard post software. That will help drive camera sales.
        The bulk of BM's income is from hardware sales. Vertical integration of complementary hardware and software products is pretty common in our industry.
        It is possible that the codec might be picked up for use in external recorders, but how much sensor specific optimization is needed to make it work with other cameras? How many cameras actually output raw data to external recorders? Panasonic with the EVA-1 and several Sony models come to mind, but not much else.

        Resolve may be cheap software but it is rapidly evolving into a heavy iron high end finishing application that requires ever more serious, read expensive, computer power to run efficiently.
        What works well in a dedicated $30k hardware suite doesn't necessarily work so well on a typical indie shooter's laptop, even a fairly beefy one.
        Last edited by razz16mm; 09-19-2018, 04:13 AM.

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        • BMD makes software in order to sell hardware. Same goes for Apple. Not the other way around.

          Remember how uneasy BMD was when answering questions about incorporating ProRes RAW? That's how they are now acting about helping other manufacturers incorporate BRAW. I'm not suggesting that they wouldn't do it. It would be shocking if anyone asks, but if they did, my guess is that BMD would indeed help them.

          PS. Someone referenced the SDK in regards to cameras. The two aren't related at all.
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          • Originally posted by IronFilm View Post
            I hope that BMD would support with open arms other cameras using their braw.

            As not only is this good for the other cameras and consumers in general, but it also is subtly promoting BMD every time someone uses braw no matter where it is. And would further entrench BMD as a industry player and a game changer.
            Does BMD really have the time to Profile and program all these other NON BMD camera sensors that everybody wants to have BRAW included with?

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            • Originally posted by tclark513 View Post
              Does BMD really have the time to Profile and program all these other NON BMD camera sensors that everybody wants to have BRAW included with?
              If the licensing is lucrative enough I don't see why not. And as someone has already said, there's not many camera's out in the market at the moment that shoots raw so it would be a future venture with future camera's in development not current ones. I do think its more geared towards opening up the codec to be used on other editing platforms so that it becomes a mainstream codec. Thats a pretty big achievement in my books.

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              • Originally posted by misterkofa View Post
                Now it isn't up to BM to force BRAW onto another manufacturer's hardware... which is why he's providing the SDK.
                So....how exactly does BMD force RED to include Braw in the next Epic? Canon in the C200 mk ii? Panasonic in the GH6?

                The SDK is for EDITING SOFTWARE, not for cameras. It is so Adobe can pop it into the next version of CC and so Apple can pop it into the next version of FCPX and edit using Braw files. Red did this for R3D files, Canon did it for Canon raw-lite files. There's already video of Lightwave (?) incorporating the Braw SDK into their editor.

                The SDK has nothing to do with the camera/recording side of things. Of course BMD wants Braw to be the standard codec - and he also wants everyone to shoot on BMD cameras, too.

                What non-RED cameras shoot R3D files? What non-Canon cameras shoot Canon raw-lite? They don't, and I'm sure that those companies would all love it if their codec became the standard.

                Prores was made by Apple - not a camera manufacturer. h.264/h.265 were made by the Video Encoding Group Experts and the Moving Picture Experts Group - not a camera manufacturer.

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                • Originally posted by headache62 View Post
                  These are not mine - courtesy Nate Porter on the Blackmagic Forums:

                  I just did some quick tests. I haven't examined the footage yet but I did record a ton of different codec types in front of a green screen. Sorry they are short clips, but I didn't have much time to do it. Also this is by no means a great green screen test, but hopefully it is sufficient for learning about the codec and what it can handle under better circumstances.

                  File types I recorded
                  BRAW 3:1
                  BRAW 5:1
                  BRAW 8:1
                  BRAW 12:1
                  BRAW Q0
                  BRAW Q5
                  DNG 3:1
                  DNG 4:1
                  DNG Lossless
                  Prores 422 HQ
                  Prores 444
                  Prores XQ

                  Here is a link to the google drive folder https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...PY?usp=sharing

                  I'd love to know what information you can gather from these samples.
                  very cool thanks!
                  "Senior Member"???... Really???...
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                  • Originally posted by joe12south View Post
                    BMD makes software in order to sell hardware. Same goes for Apple. Not the other way around.
                    And you are basing this on...

                    Apple is a very unique company in the entire history of the world. They are not a trend. The rest of the S&P 500 is all about selling software. IBM, CSCO, etc. These were once gigantic hardware plays. They are all making a beeline for software.

                    I could see them selling control surfaces for resolve and niche things like that. But the camera business is brutal and historically a lot of the players operated at barely break even or a loss.

                    And more importantly when they launched the BMCC they explicitly said they produced the camera because no one was producing affordable cameras that would fully use their software. I am not privy to their motivations today but certainly when the camera line was launched they never indicated their main purpose was to make big bucks off of selling cameras.

                    Originally posted by joe12south View Post
                    Remember how uneasy BMD was when answering questions about incorporating ProRes RAW? That's how they are now acting about helping other manufacturers incorporate BRAW. I'm not suggesting that they wouldn't do it. It would be shocking if anyone asks, but if they did, my guess is that BMD would indeed help them.
                    I am not following the logic here. BM just announced an amazing M43 DCI 4k beast that recorded raw to USB C and was being sold for $1,300... with full Resolve! And instead of people saying OMG take my money some jokers were asking whether this totally unprecedented camera would have Proresraw. Do me a favor. Tell me what Prores raw is. Now tell me what advantage it has over CDNG and compressed CDNG. Exactly. Now couple that with the fact the person you are asking to incorporate proresraw knows they are going to announce braw in a few months. Prores raw as far as I can tell is pointless and redundant. Braw is revolutionary. If someone told me you are going to get a camera with prores raw instead of braw I would be pretty disappointed. You were literally demanding someone give you a turd when they were secretly grilling up a filet mignon for you back in the kitchen. And you wonder why they looked at you like you had a disease?

                    And after the crap Apple pulled with prores on Windows (the most ubiquitous OS in the world) I would be reluctant to start building my products around yet another proprietary Apple codec.

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                    • Originally posted by headache62 View Post
                      So....how exactly does BMD force RED to include Braw in the next Epic? Canon in the C200 mk ii? Panasonic in the GH6?
                      So there are so few takers for incorporating braw they will have to "force" other manufactures to use it? Okay.

                      Originally posted by tclark513 View Post
                      Does BMD really have the time to Profile and program all these other NON BMD camera sensors that everybody wants to have BRAW included with?
                      So there are so many manufacturers that want to incorporate braw in their cameras BM couldn't possibly do it because they don't have the time? Okay.


                      It would be a lot easier if you guys PMed each other and got your story straight.

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                      • Originally posted by VidShooter View Post
                        So there are so few takers for incorporating braw they will have to "force" other manufactures to use it? Okay.
                        Did you even read the quote to which I was responding? Someone ELSE said BMD has to "force" other manufacturers to incorporate Braw (I hate that abbreviation) into their cameras. I was pointing out the absurdity of the other person's assertion.

                        How many Canon cameras shoot R3D? How many Panasonic cameras shoot Arriraw? Why should BMD treat Braw any different than RED treats R3D and Arri treats Arriraw?

                        What is more likely, in my opinion: if Braw becomes desired by production companies (which is a possibility, in my opinion), the response will be either 1) Buy a BMD camera (I still want a 6k full-frame BDM camera) or 2) Buy the next-gen Video Assists that can encode a raw stream into Braw format.


                        I could be totally wrong, but only time will tell.
                        Last edited by headache62; 09-19-2018, 10:34 AM. Reason: typo

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                        • Originally posted by VidShooter View Post
                          And you are basing this on...
                          1. BMD's website (specifically product line-up)
                          2. Common sense. Follow the money.

                          A free or nearly free product isn't the product...something else is. For Google, the product is advertising data. For Apple the product is the phone or computer (and more and more subscription services.) Free DaVinci Resolve is basically an effective gateway drug to BMD's control surfaces, studio gear and yes, cameras.


                          I am not following the logic here.
                          No connecting logic other than the reaction of BMD to the questions. Someone's face oft tells more than their mouth.
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                          Pocketluts Store

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                          • Originally posted by VidShooter View Post
                            So there are so few takers for incorporating braw they will have to "force" other manufactures to use it? Okay.



                            So there are so many manufacturers that want to incorporate braw in their cameras BM couldn't possibly do it because they don't have the time? Okay.


                            It would be a lot easier if you guys PMed each other and got your story straight.
                            Um... huh? Okay...

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                            • Originally posted by headache62 View Post
                              These are not mine - courtesy Nate Porter on the Blackmagic Forums:

                              I just did some quick tests. I haven't examined the footage yet but I did record a ton of different codec types in front of a green screen. Sorry they are short clips, but I didn't have much time to do it. Also this is by no means a great green screen test, but hopefully it is sufficient for learning about the codec and what it can handle under better circumstances.

                              File types I recorded
                              BRAW 3:1
                              BRAW 5:1
                              BRAW 8:1
                              BRAW 12:1
                              BRAW Q0
                              BRAW Q5
                              DNG 3:1
                              DNG 4:1
                              DNG Lossless
                              Prores 422 HQ
                              Prores 444
                              Prores XQ

                              Here is a link to the google drive folder https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...PY?usp=sharing

                              I'd love to know what information you can gather from these samples.
                              It seems BRAW is very different from DNG. If look closer, all BRAW samples have some kind of strange color halo at color patches edges. Less noise, less moire but same time less sharpness. It feels like ProRes in terms of sharpness. This is not a problem when you downscale 4K to HD, but for Pocket or Micro with native HD resolution and OLPF filter BRAW may be too soft with too compressed chroma.


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                              • I think BMD will release firmware for all URSA Mini models to support BRAW soon. If you go to the official Blackmagic RAW page on their website, at the bottom they have all three Ursa Mini models. If it was only going to be for the Pro model, then why would they feature all models at bottom of the Blackmagic RAW page?

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