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  • I think my biggest point of contention is going to come down to how well the sensor handles moire, the ursa handles it quite well while you can find it if you nit pick it's generally fine. The current pocket has it in spades and it's quite a big negative against it.

    If the 4k does have the same sensor as the GH5S then panasoinc felt it necessary to include an OLPF, let's hope it's not as bad as I'd fear. Really can't wait for samples already!

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    • Originally posted by Ryanite View Post
      I think my biggest point of contention is going to come down to how well the sensor handles moire, the ursa handles it quite well while you can find it if you nit pick it's generally fine. The current pocket has it in spades and it's quite a big negative against it.

      If the 4k does have the same sensor as the GH5S then panasoinc felt it necessary to include an OLPF, let's hope it's not as bad as I'd fear. Really can't wait for samples already!
      There are so many rumors about Panasonic GH5S OLPF but no any real proof from developers. As I remember people ask Panasonic support, and got answer that it has no any OLPF. There is also visible moire in Panasonic GH5S RAW samples. My guess that Panasonic GH5S removes moire in camera post processing, in same way as BM cameras do when shoot ProRes.

      I am sure that Mosaic and Rawlite will do OLPF filter for it Pocket4K. I am almost sure it will have very fast rolling shutter. But I am very skeptical about dynamic range and form factor of this camera.

      Still no any test footage from this camera?
      All my custom made accessories for BMMCC/BMMSC now available here https://lavky.com/radioproektor/

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      • Originally posted by shijan View Post
        There are so many rumors about Panasonic GH5S OLPF but no any real proof from developers. As I remember people ask Panasonic support, and got answer that it has no any OLPF. There is also visible moire in Panasonic GH5S RAW samples. My guess that Panasonic GH5S removes moire in camera post processing, in same way as BM cameras do when shoot ProRes.
        So I had contacted Panasonic customer support and, after a slightly frustrated exchange, I was able to confirm that the GH5s DOES have an OLPF installed. To reiterate though, the GH5 does not.

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        • Originally posted by shijan View Post
          There are so many rumors about Panasonic GH5S OLPF but no any real proof from developers. As I remember people ask Panasonic support, and got answer that it has no any OLPF. There is also visible moire in Panasonic GH5S RAW samples. My guess that Panasonic GH5S removes moire in camera post processing, in same way as BM cameras do when shoot ProRes.

          I am sure that Mosaic and Rawlite will do OLPF filter for it Pocket4K. I am almost sure it will have very fast rolling shutter. But I am very skeptical about dynamic range and form factor of this camera.

          Still no any test footage from this camera?
          For the GH5s Alex.Mitchell got a response from Panasonic a little back. Granted their first response was that it didn't have one but they were referring mistakenly to the GH5.

          "Our apologies for the confusion. The Gh5 does not have the Optical low pass flter however the GH5s does indeed have an optical low pass filter. that is fact one of the differences between the models.

          Thank you.

          Sincerely,
          Customer Relations
          Panasonic Canada Inc"

          So I'm not holding my breath but lets hope it's a touch better than the bmpcc. I'm not worried about dynamic range as while the pocket is quite good having to shoot 2 stops over to get a clean signal holds it back in situations where high dynamic range is needed in the first place. I'm expecting the same dynamic range on paper but with much cleaner blacks, Panasonic simply handicapped their version to fit into V-log L.

          My pre-verdict is. Sharper, better colour & 1-2 stops more dynamic range than the GH5s but with Moire issues, higher noise at high ISO in terms of image alone.

          It's a give take situation with these compact DSLR type cameras. GH5s costs more but is weather sealed, can run dual recording, OLPF, longer lasting battery and high iso with in body NR. BMPCC4k is cheaper, higher quality codecs, XLR on body and records out to SSD. Really sours me that they decided to lop a stop of range from V-log L for 'reasons' though, that and the VFR issues that still haven't been fixed otherwise I'd seriously consider the GH5s over the pocket.

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          • Originally posted by shijan View Post
            There is also visible moire in Panasonic GH5S RAW samples.
            That's because as I've said many times, an OLPF is no guarantee of being moire free.

            Originally posted by shijan View Post
            My guess that Panasonic GH5S removes moire in camera post processing, in same way as BM cameras do when shoot ProRes.
            The BMD cameras don't remove moire in camera when shooting ProRes.

            They may do as a side effect of the encoding to ProRes though. But it's a happy accident more than an actual intention.

            ProRes has to be subsampled into larger macro blocks than the pixels before encoding and I think this "averaging" that happens makes the moire appear less obvious.

            I haven't checked for a while, but you could simulate this in resolve by rendering ProRes clips from Raw and comparing.

            JB

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            • Doing a bit of reading, does the 4k really have a 4x crop factor at 120 fps? seems pretty drastic if so. Or is it just a hd crop from the 4k sensor? Might mean the BMPCC speedbooster could come in handy to reduce the crop factor when shooting HFR.

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              • It is an HD window crop,of the full MFT sensor, so yes, if there is not an internal baffle or other issue, the BMPCC SB would increase the AOV, to get a closer match to full sensor.

                The BMPCC SB does not fit the GH5 or 5S duemto thier internal mechanical shutter getting in the way, not sure if BM is suing a shutter on thr new PC4K for still capture.
                Cheers

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                • Originally posted by Denny Smith View Post
                  It is an HD window crop,of the full MFT sensor, so yes, if there is not an internal baffle or other issue, the BMPCC SB would increase the AOV, to get a closer match to full sensor.

                  The BMPCC SB does not fit the GH5 or 5S duemto thier internal mechanical shutter getting in the way, not sure if BM is suing a shutter on thr new PC4K for still capture.
                  Cheers


                  I believe they said it's just a still frame grabbed from the video feed. No shutter.

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                  • It has two modes, still frame grab while,filming and a dedicated photo mode, but I ageee I do not think it has a mechanical shutter.
                    Cheers

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
                      I haven't checked for a while, but you could simulate this in resolve by rendering ProRes clips from Raw and comparing.
                      ProRes generated in camera, at least in the BMPCC anyway, suffers from fewer artifacts than rendering ProRes in Resolve from a CDNG source. The mazing is notable absent, although there's still a ton of aliasing. Either way, It's a gripe I've always had with Resolve, stretching back all the way to DR10. Hoping that the debayer algorithm gets an update in DR15...

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                      • Did Blackmagic Design ever specify a shipping time frame for the Pocket 4K? I'm starting to worry that we're looking at another long-term delay due to a technical issue they can't solve, like the global shutter issue that delayed the release of the BMMCC.

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                        • Originally posted by xrayspecs View Post
                          Did Blackmagic Design ever specify a shipping time frame for the Pocket 4K? I'm starting to worry that we're looking at another long-term delay due to a technical issue they can't solve, like the global shutter issue that delayed the release of the BMMCC.
                          What BMPCC 4K issues are you referring to?

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                          • I think we're still on course for a September release.
                            Blackmagic Design User Group UK

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                            • Originally posted by Dan K View Post
                              I think we're still on course for a September release.
                              wouldve hoped for a few more teasers by now but let's hope they're just super busy

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                              • Originally posted by Dan K View Post
                                I think we're still on course for a September release.
                                I think hes being sarcastic. No way this camera is going to be shipping september. We dont even have any sample footage from them at all or any updates. I think this camerw will be out March 19. I hope im wrong though.
                                My Youtube Channel
                                https://www.youtube.com/jsfilmz

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