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  • RED vs Black Magic cameras

    Is there any big difference between the RED and Black Magic Caneras? Just wondering what type I should get for 4K video.

    How common is it now to have XLR inputs on a camera?

  • #2
    Yes with the most obvious is the price. Personally I like the color science coming from the Blackmagic. To your second question it is common on high end cinema and studio cameras, not much on DSLR. Having XLR has big advantages over other audio ports. There is a lot of info on the Internet. You should Google the difference and why it is more preferred and used in professional equipments.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by EYu View Post
      Yes with the most obvious is the price. Personally I like the color science coming from the Blackmagic. To your second question it is common on high end cinema and studio cameras, not much on DSLR. Having XLR has big advantages over other audio ports. There is a lot of info on the Internet. You should Google the difference and why it is more preferred and used in professional equipments.
      Thanks,

      I was reading that Apple stopped supporting QuickTime Player in Windows. Does this Mean if I buy a Black Magic Camera and record to PRO Res I can't play it back on a windows computer in Premiere? I got Windows 10. If it does mean this what do I do? The only other option is to record to CinemaDNG Compressed but would be nice to record to PRO Res still.

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      • #4
        One costs about $5,000 and the other costs between $15,000 and $35,000.

        Do we really need to go any further with this?
        Cameras: Blackmagic Cinema Camera, Blackmagic Pocket Camera (x2), Panasonic GH2 (x2), Sony RX100 ii, Canon 6D, Canon T2i,
        Mics: Sennheiser, AKG, Shure, Sanken, Audio-Technica, Audix
        Lights: Every Chinese clone you can imagine

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        • #5
          New, sure, no comparison, but the used market is another story. Used Reds can be had for very reasonable prices. The OP seems to be beginning their cinematic journey, though, so it seems to be a teachable moment.

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          • #6
            I've owned three BMD cameras,starting with the original BMCC going all the way up to the Ursa mini 4.6k (with the pocket in between). I now only own the pocket out of those and a Red is my A cam. Even my old MX sensor is favorable against the latest from BMD in terms of image quality, and in terms of support, it's night and day better on the Red side. If you can get a Scarlet Dragon or an Epic MX, it's just better in every way that matters to me. One thing that's very cool is Red continues to update all of their cameras simultaneously. They just released a new image processing pipeline that increased image quality on my four year old sensor last month.

            The Ursa mini will be better for run and gun, but that's about it in my opinion. I'd suggest renting both for a day each and just going out and shooting with them.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by fahnon View Post
              If you can get a Scarlet Dragon or an Epic MX, it's just better in every way that matters to me.
              fair enough. but we're still talking about 4-10x as expensive, right? i'm not seeing any 5k package on ebay....

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              • #8
                You can find <$5K packages for the RED ONE, and sometimes very randomly (especially via 'Best Offer') grab a Scarlet-X ready-to-shoot bundle (or almost ready) starting around $6K. The prices of course increase with more accessories.

                Adorama actually has a Scarlet-X with everything you need besides mags and mag reader for $6K right now.

                https://www.adorama.com/us%20%20%20%20818631.html

                Then there are some amazing deals out there (provided they are legit) from people who just want to make a sale ASAP. I passed up on a pretty epic deal the other week for an EPIC-X bundle for $9K. (And I think that's my first pun ever.)

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                • #9
                  John Brawley has posted several times about how the 4.6K gives him 90+ percent of Alex performance. He has now shooting a TV series with the 4.6K exclusively. I had 2 Red Ones and always upgraded both through to Epic Dragons. I shoot mostly TV commercials. Weapon and the 4.6K came out at about the same time. I ordered 2 4.6K cameras at NAB and did extensive side by side tests with both Dragon and 4.6K. Other than higher frame rates the 4.6K did everything I needed and no one could tell the difference accept for a more Alexa looking color science. No one can argue that the Red is a truly professional system camera and is far more rugged and has better support, but that comes at a cost. For the money, the 4.6K is untouchable. IMHO.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by offbeatbryce View Post
                    Thanks,

                    I was reading that Apple stopped supporting QuickTime Player in Windows. Does this Mean if I buy a Black Magic Camera and record to PRO Res I can't play it back on a windows computer in Premiere? I got Windows 10. If it does mean this what do I do? The only other option is to record to CinemaDNG Compressed but would be nice to record to PRO Res still.
                    While apple has stopped supporting quicktime on windows Premiere and Resolve (dunno about Avid) have released updates to their software allowing you to view and edit ProRes material without quicktime. However it is limited to only reading ProRes, you cannot export any flavor of ProRes from a windows machine. Though I think you'll find DNxHD and Cineform are suitable alternatives.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kbmjkeys88 View Post
                      fair enough. but we're still talking about 4-10x as expensive, right? i'm not seeing any 5k package on ebay....
                      You can get a ready to shoot package for around $10k, which isn't that much of a leap from a brand new kitted out Ursa Mini 4.6k (cost me around $7,500 for mine and that was with the cheap ebay media cards). If you go with the MX sensor, they are about the same price.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tommy Davis View Post
                        While apple has stopped supporting quicktime on windows Premiere and Resolve (dunno about Avid) have released updates to their software allowing you to view and edit ProRes material without quicktime. However it is limited to only reading ProRes, you cannot export any flavor of ProRes from a windows machine. Though I think you'll find DNxHD and Cineform are suitable alternatives.
                        I've switched to Cineform DI's for editing. Resolve both reads and writes Cineform in proxy and master quality formats. I use Raw4Pro to transcode CDNG files to Cineform. It writes Cineform, DNXHD and Prores at multiple quality levels. Footage Studio 4k also reads writes and transcodes all three on PC's Quicktime is not required. The free GoPro Studio app is required to install Cineform codecs.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fahnon View Post
                          I've owned three BMD cameras,starting with the original BMCC going all the way up to the Ursa mini 4.6k (with the pocket in between). I now only own the pocket out of those and a Red is my A cam. Even my old MX sensor is favorable against the latest from BMD in terms of image quality, and in terms of support, it's night and day better on the Red side. If you can get a Scarlet Dragon or an Epic MX, it's just better in every way that matters to me. One thing that's very cool is Red continues to update all of their cameras simultaneously. They just released a new image processing pipeline that increased image quality on my four year old sensor last month.

                          The Ursa mini will be better for run and gun, but that's about it in my opinion. I'd suggest renting both for a day each and just going out and shooting with them.
                          To each his own I guess. I've shot with MX and won't EVER do it again if I have the choice. Prior to Helium, there is nothing from Red that I like. For me the jury's still out on Helium. I am a fan of res though, and would consider Dragon/Weapon/Helium for that, but IMHO MX is horrible. Absolutely horrid.

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                          • #14
                            BTW, depending on the kind of work you do, the BMPC 4K, UM4K, or Ursa Major all have an amazing look and color science and motion. Their weakness is dynamic range, which you can manage in some conditions, and not so much in others.

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                            • #15
                              RED MX looks to be 12 stops at best. I won't say it is absolutely horrid but it does feel like an older generation sensor that doesn't quite live with the same expectation you get with Dragon or Mini 4.6k.

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