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  • RED Raven vs. URSA Mini 4.6k

    I'll have a Raven this weekend (my last one shot on the 4.6k), and I'll be taking it around to non-scientifically test it in various environments. I figured since I'll have it, I should check if anyone here has any questions about how they compare in any way. Let me know if you have a set-up you're curious about. Otherwise, I'll just update the thread with the videos as I put them out.

    UPDATE #1

    Thanks for the ideas, everyone. We got a huge snow storm over the weekend, which caused a problem with the shipment, so I had the camera only long enough to take it into the woods for the video I wanted to make. I'm still editing that one together, but I did manage to get some dramatic home-life moments:


    https://vimeo.com/195824699

    It turned out to be somewhat of a comparison, because a few months ago, I shot a similar video (same room, light, lens) with the 4.6k. That one is here:


    https://vimeo.com/178409013

    Sorry for falling through on doing more. I hope to have another RED camera soon to be able to take my time with the comparisons.
    Last edited by stephenplusplus; 12-17-2016, 06:20 PM.
    Shooting random videos on the 4.6k:
    https://vimeo.com/stephenplusplus

  • #2
    I think a real scene with a decorated and LIT set, and human actors in it - shot with both cameras but the same lens is just about the end-all "real world" comparison test.

    Also it would be could to get a breakdown on the exact RED hardware componentry and configuration you're using. We all know how the UM4.6k comes, but there can really be a TON of variations with RED hardware.
    Cameras: Blackmagic Cinema Camera, Blackmagic Pocket Camera (x2), Panasonic GH2 (x2), Sony RX100 ii, Canon 6D, Canon T2i,
    Mics: Sennheiser, AKG, Shure, Sanken, Audio-Technica, Audix
    Lights: Every Chinese clone you can imagine

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    • #3
      Great point. The Raven is a bit limited in its options compared to the other REDs. For example, it is built with a fixed EF mount and the standard OLPF. I'll be experimenting with the RAW compression options / frame rates. Lens-wise, I'll be using Leica Summicron-R primes. Let me know if there's anything I missed that would be helpful to know.

      I'll try to put together something useful in terms of a scene with actors, but it might have to be my 4 year old daughter as the lead... though, I've seen enough of her meltdowns to know she's a pretty good actress.
      Shooting random videos on the 4.6k:
      https://vimeo.com/stephenplusplus

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      • #4
        I am very interested in a noise comparison.

        My one experience with Red, albeit an MX sensor, was that the moment you touch the mids and darks the image gets noisy. I've heard Dragon and then Weapon get better at this, but still something I wonder about. So, maybe lift them both and see which is better.

        Also skin tones but that goes without saying.

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        • #5
          Like DPstewart said, I'd also be keen to see both cameras do a lit set with people. How they handle key lit skin, backlit skin. Wuite a range of exposure values. Maybe shoot each camera at varying apertures so we can see where the sweet spot of exposure is for both of them.

          Also would be interested in seeing the same lens on both cameras to compare shot size and depth of field on the smaller Raven sensor.

          Hope you have a fun time testing them. Would be awesome if you could whack some dngs and r3d frames online when you're done. Like even 10-20frames of each is enough to see noise etc.
          James Iain Barber
          Editor, writer, director, shooter, yadda yadda.

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          • #6
            Maybe a cycle through the various compression ratios would be nice...especially with HFRs.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by stephenplusplus View Post
              I'll have a Raven this weekend (my last one shot on the 4.6k), and I'll be taking it around to non-scientifically test it in various environments. I figured since I'll have it, I should check if anyone here has any questions about how they compare in any way. Let me know if you have a set-up you're curious about. Otherwise, I'll just update the thread with the videos as I put them out.
              I'd love to see RAW 4:1 footage of a person from both cameras in the following scenarios:

              1.) Indoors with only artificial light (the uglier, flatter, and more office-like, the better).
              2.) A regular, un-lit, indoor scene with a large bright window behind the subject with a bright view of outside.
              3.) A dark scene at night lit with only one 60w light bulb using 1/50 (aka: 1/48 or 180 degree) shutter, f2.8 aperture (or T3.0-ish), and ISO 800 (though I guess it doesn't matter for RAW?)
              4.) A sunny outdoor medium shot of a person looking into camera with sun behind the subject and minimal bounce lighting their face.
              5.) A correctly exposed shot of a person running and walking back and forth, and side to side, through a scene (to see motion effects).
              6.) Any other scenarios you can think of assuming you can't control the light and the light is "bad."

              Stretch goal: Graded and ungraded! And uploaded to YouTube!

              Thanks!

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              • #8
                Thanks for the ideas, everyone. We got a huge snow storm over the weekend, which caused a problem with the shipment, so I had the camera only long enough to take it into the woods for the video I wanted to make. I'm still editing that one together, but I did manage to get some dramatic home-life moments:


                https://vimeo.com/195824699

                It turned out to be somewhat of a comparison, because a few months ago, I shot a similar video (same room, light, lens) with the 4.6k. That one is here:


                https://vimeo.com/178409013

                Sorry for falling through on doing more. I hope to have another RED camera soon to be able to take my time with the comparisons.
                Shooting random videos on the 4.6k:
                https://vimeo.com/stephenplusplus

                Comment


                • #9
                  You wanted a Raven for a while...so what are your thoughts now that you've used both?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Would definitely buy it if I could find one. I remember the wow-effect I had when I first edited footage from my old DVX100A (24p!!! + Guerilla35), from the a7R II (4k!!!), and the URSA Mini 4.6k. The RED still gave me another. Between the Mini and the Raven, the biggest difference I notice in terms of the image is the color depth. Without any tests done to confirm the DR claim of "16.5+ stops", I did notice the difference when I was shooting outside in the snow. And there's a sharpness that I haven't figured out what to attribute to yet. I'm very happy with the Mini's picture, but after using the Raven, I see it as the weaker sensor, but not by far (banding/crosshatching/magenta issues aside).

                    I believe what has changed from before and after:

                    Before: The URSA Mini 4.6k is a great camera, you don't need to spend all that money on a RED.
                    After: The URSA Mini 4.6k is a great camera, but if you can afford it, go with the RED (Dragon sensor).

                    Before RMA experiences with BM: FPN issues and magenta corners are a bummer. But, still so much value in this $5k camera.
                    After RMA experiences with BM: If budget allows, avoid the company for the sake of *dealing with the company* as opposed to the product. I mention this because it does affect choosing RED over BM.

                    These are just quick thoughts, I'll try to put more together after some more time and make sure I answer questions that were already asked above.
                    Shooting random videos on the 4.6k:
                    https://vimeo.com/stephenplusplus

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                    • #11
                      So, obviously its a different experience the camera and footage in hand, but to me, the UM46 footage is waaaaay prettier. Like, it just feels more cinematic to me.

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                      • #12
                        I also preferred the UM4.6, skin tones looked more natural, and a little warmer. Nice comparison, thanks for doing it.
                        Cheers

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                        • #13
                          Yea you can't go wrong with with choosing either one of the cameras.....But from the two examples you posted, The Ursa Mini 4.6 looks better to my eyes. But the Ursa mini 4.6k is a killer camera for the price....I have rented both the raven and the 4.6k as well as the red weapon, and the ursa 4.6k is right up there with them. I am actually excited to see what blackmagic have in store for nab this year.

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                          • #14
                            Definitely prefer the color on the 4.6K in your comparisons.

                            RED footage is weird... it always looks high end, but often people/skintones look a bit strange to me.

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                            • #15
                              Both looked great. To me the Raven had better contrast. The highlights popped, the roll off was creamy, and the shadows are beautifully inky, it felt very cinematic. The Ursa 4.6k had stronger colors and far more natural skin tone. I think this test shows that cameras now are just basically filmstock. It all looks great, just pick that one that visually fits the project.

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