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  • BMD's Biggest Differentiator

    Every camera that BMD produces from here should only shoot RAW with footage that is automatically designed to import into Resolve, Auto Grade and simply export in any format.

    Right now they have become just like every other camera and smartphone company on the planet with compressed in camera formats.....nothing special and nothing different.

    The magic BMD have is in being able to capture RAW, it is just so beautiful to be be able to pull, push and grade....like Anthony Robbins and Steve Jobs would have said. it's 'Different, Interesting and Memorable'....versus 'whatever'

    Geez....Kodak is about to produce a SmartPhone that will happily compete with ProRes from a BMD camera and yet BMD are so much better than this and equal to RED.....if they choose uncompressed RAW as the input.

    Why would they ever give this up to be just like everyone else......FFS disable the compressed crap that is processed in camera and make it a no brainer for everyone to simply use Resolve to post to wherever, whenever and which ever format they choose.....gee, go crazy and schedule uploads to social media ??

    Maybe even go crazy and go the 'BMD Cloud'
    Last edited by AndrewDeme; 10-21-2016, 08:45 PM.
    Lotsa Zeon thingos with thousands of cute cores...enough is never enough

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  • #2
    Are you drunk?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by kgimedia View Post
      Are you drunk?
      Nope, but I think it is so lovingly of you to ask....thanks.

      So much for 'Think Different'
      Lotsa Zeon thingos with thousands of cute cores...enough is never enough

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kgimedia View Post
        Are you drunk?
        I laughed way too hard at this XD

        If I do understand this correctly Andrew, you're criticizing Blackmagic's implementation/move to compressed RAW vs. its very initial offering of uncompressed RAW?

        You do realize most if not all the Blackmagic cams, the ones that can record internally have Lossless compressed RAW? Lossless is EXACTLY the same bit for bit once decompressed as uncompressed. It's just smaller in file size.
        ( I'm going to take flack for using the term "exactly" but it really is just that. )

        I personally don't see how having the other formats takes anything away from that. It's just more options for those who choose to use it.

        The 3:1 compressed Raw and even 4:1 are also still extremely capable and hold up very well at even more savings in storage space.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Zolac View Post
          I laughed way too hard at this XD

          If I do understand this correctly Andrew, you're criticizing Blackmagic's implementation/move to compressed RAW vs. its very initial offering of uncompressed RAW?

          You do realize most if not all the Blackmagic cams, the ones that can record internally have Lossless compressed RAW? Lossless is EXACTLY the same bit for bit once decompressed as uncompressed. It's just smaller in file size.
          ( I'm going to take flack for using the term "exactly" but it really is just that. )

          I personally don't see how having the other formats takes anything away from that. It's just more options for those who choose to use it.

          The 3:1 compressed Raw and even 4:1 are also still extremely capable and hold up very well at even more savings in storage space.
          Unfortunately this forum has a history of attacking the person and laughing at the person and immediately isolating the person instead of simply focusing on the content and concepts....well done to the first poster as you are an excellent demonstration of the toxic culture....with a long history.

          As for the idea of lossless versus pure RAW, yes I do understand.

          As for minimal lossy such as 3:1 or 4:1 or go crazy and pick something in between such as 3.14159265358979323846 (could have gone more but cut and paste gets boring real quick).....this is where it all becomes grey and BMD just become like 'any other camera'....whilst the whole time they have this amazing post processing engine called Davinci Resolve which can take advantage of serious processing power in Davinci, even on a laptop.
          Last edited by AndrewDeme; 10-21-2016, 10:03 PM.
          Lotsa Zeon thingos with thousands of cute cores...enough is never enough

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          • #6
            Originally posted by AndrewDeme View Post
            Unfortunately this forum has a history of attacking the person and laughing at the person and immediately isolating the person instead of simply focusing on the content and concepts....well done to the first poster as you are an excellent demonstration of the toxic culture.

            As for the idea of lossless versus pure RAW, yes I do understand.

            As for minimal lossy such as 3:1 or 4:1 or go crazy and pick something in between such as 3.14159265358979323846 (could have gone more but cut and paste gets boring real quick).....this is where it all becomes grey and BMD just become like 'any other camera'
            So if I understand you're unsatisfied with BMD's RAW compression, I still don't get what part of that you seem to attribute to "any other camera"
            Are you saying you wish they were more innovative with their compression? what do wish to be improved?

            You don't like the quality of the 3:1 or 4:1 RAW? You want the size of the files to smaller than they already are?

            You're being too general.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by AndrewDeme View Post
              Unfortunately this forum has a history of attacking the person and laughing at the person and immediately isolating the person instead of simply focusing on the content and concepts....well done to the first poster as you are an excellent demonstration of the toxic culture....with a long history.

              Hi Andrew, I think it was just a little humor dabbed in. The original message or context of the thread was undoubtedly a bit hard to comprehend as far as sentence structure goes. Let's just say it was a little comic relief following intense brain workout from reading the 1st post. At least that's my opinion. I find your posts to be informative so i appreciate your positive contributions here.
              Forrest Schultz
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Zolac View Post
                So if I understand you're unsatisfied with BMD's RAW compression, I still don't get what part of that you seem to attribute to "any other camera"
                Are you saying you wish they were more innovative with their compression? what do wish to be improved?

                You don't like the quality of the 3:1 or 4:1 RAW? You want the size of the files to smaller than they already are?

                You're being too general.
                Have no issue with any of the compression formats that BMD provide across any of their cameras, none at all...I just wouldn't be bothered to use any of them as I can't see the point of shooting anything but RAW.

                My desktop doesn't benefit at all from any of the compressed formats and I don't lack storage capacity, either in camera or in post processing.

                So if you think I am being too general then let me be very very specific:-

                1. The camera has the processing power to record uncompressed RAW (very few cameras do)
                2. Not all companies that market uncompressed RAW are talking about the same type of 'uncompressed'
                3. The average desktop, including laptops have more than enough grunt and storage to 'conform', including a basic grade of uncompressed RAW from any of the BMD Cameras
                4. This to me is kinda like next, next, finish and from there it gets really easy for everyone that touches the output
                5. My feeling is that the relationship between the output of RAW from the camera and ever so powerful processing power of Davinci could be leveraged more
                Last edited by AndrewDeme; 10-21-2016, 10:13 PM.
                Lotsa Zeon thingos with thousands of cute cores...enough is never enough

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                • #9
                  If I am understanding what Andrew is saying, continue with Raw and compressed Raw innovations and do away with Prores. Right?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Revdesign Industries View Post
                    Hi Andrew, I think it was just a little humor dabbed in. The original message or context of the thread was undoubtedly a bit hard to comprehend as far as sentence structure goes. Let's just say it was a little comic relief following intense brain workout from reading the 1st post. At least that's my opinion. I find your posts to be informative so i appreciate your positive contributions here.
                    Mate I have been on the Net since the mid 70's and there is nothing at all that phases me, other than small mindedness....as for sentence structure, never really did get much past Primary School English.
                    Lotsa Zeon thingos with thousands of cute cores...enough is never enough

                    www.andrewdeme.com
                    http://www.youtube.com/andrewdeme
                    www.facebook.com/andrewdeme
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                    (I reserve the right to edit, modify or delete any content I create anywhere at anytime...it probably wasn't that good anyway)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AndrewDeme View Post
                      Have no issue with any of the compression formats that BMD provide across any of their cameras, none at all...I just wouldn't be bothered to use any of them as I can't see the point of shooting anything but RAW.

                      My desktop doesn't benefit at all from any of the compressed formats and I don't lack storage capacity, either in camera or in post processing.

                      So if you think I am being to general then let me be very very specific:-

                      1. The camera has the processing power to record undompressed RAW (very few cameras do)
                      2. Not all companies that market uncompressed RAW are talking about the same type of 'uncompressed'
                      3. The average desktop has more than enough grunt and storage to 'conform', including a basic grade of uncompressed RAW from BMD
                      4. This to me is kinda like next, next, finish and from there it gets really easy for everyone that touches the output.
                      Andrew I have perfect solution for you! Its called Lossless.

                      There is literally no drawback to lossless compressed RAW. Like are you afraid the BMD is somehow treating that RAW differently?

                      Its the exact same thing as uncompressed. The DNG implementation of Lossless compression is not an image compression method ( as DCT is in jpeg ), its a data compression method.
                      You just get smaller files.

                      What isn't working for you and the lossless compressed files? I've found many programs to successfully work with them. Seem's like Resolve is your primary, so don't see the issue there.

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                      • #12
                        EYu, That was my take on this! Thanks for confirming it!
                        Cheers

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by EYu View Post
                          If I am understanding what Andrew is saying, continue with Raw and compressed Raw innovations and do away with Prores. Right?
                          I think the biggest differentiation that BMD have is the one between the output of the camera and Davinci Resolve....this is something I am suggesting they have the ability to leverage more....and of course in saying this I am thinking of how.

                          As for simply outputting in other formats which are acceptable to many other software packages and companies, well.......
                          Lotsa Zeon thingos with thousands of cute cores...enough is never enough

                          www.andrewdeme.com
                          http://www.youtube.com/andrewdeme
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                          (I reserve the right to edit, modify or delete any content I create anywhere at anytime...it probably wasn't that good anyway)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by EYu View Post
                            If I am understanding what Andrew is saying, continue with Raw and compressed Raw innovations and do away with Prores. Right?
                            That is one bookend, to immediately leap to a conclusion that I am saying ProRes should be done away with, even though I have never stated this in a sentence in any of these posts...Toxic Culture Continues.

                            How about we try and approach this from the other side of the amount of liquid in a glass and dare I say that BMD have a competitive advantage which I think they could leverage more and that is the relationship they have between the pure RAW data they produce from their cameras and the Davinci Resolve Software which they own and continue to develop.

                            Am thinking in terms of RAW data direct from the camera that BMD have the ability to provide the user, then it is possible they can provide the customer with an improved experience by aligning the RAW output with suitably crafted Davinci Resolve templates and thereby streamlining the workflow with the end result of producing an image that is much more difficult to produce via alternative methods.
                            Last edited by AndrewDeme; 10-21-2016, 10:10 PM.
                            Lotsa Zeon thingos with thousands of cute cores...enough is never enough

                            www.andrewdeme.com
                            http://www.youtube.com/andrewdeme
                            www.facebook.com/andrewdeme
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                            (I reserve the right to edit, modify or delete any content I create anywhere at anytime...it probably wasn't that good anyway)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AndrewDeme View Post
                              Have no issue with any of the compression formats that BMD provide across any of their cameras, none at all...I just wouldn't be bothered to use any of them as I can't see the point of shooting anything but RAW.
                              So here's one for you. I was once on a set where every camera was a C100 and they were shooting native codec. At very last minute one of the C100 failed. I had my BMPCC in the car so I suggested they replace the 3rd cam with my BMPCC. At the first dailies the BMPCC which I shot it raw had that cinematic creamy look while those on the C100 looked overly saturated (Rec709) video. Because it was a multi cam shot, it was hellish to get it match. The director wanted the looked from the BMPCC but the dominant cameras cannot provide it. What ended up happening is that I had to use Prores LT in Video DR on the BMPCC so that the footage could be matched with the C100 by the post guys. So you see, having those other compressed coded has its benefits and like Mr. Forrest Gump said, "...you'll never know what you'll get", or in my case, I didn't have the choice to just shoot Raw even how much I wanted too.

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