Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

I'd Like to buy a camera that I didn't have to re-engineer after I buy it

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I'd Like to buy a camera that I didn't have to re-engineer after I buy it

    I don't know if anyone else is frustrated by the state of affairs with cameras but here is my point of view. I am still on the list and excited about the BMC however wouldn't it be great to buy a camera that all you had to add to was a lens and a battery. I am confused as to which meccano set rig I construct, which evf I add, and how I power it. Imagine if a camera company gave us a shoulder mounted camera that was already set up to go. I'd happily pay 10-15 thousand for a shoulder mounted m43 camera with a decent viewfinder, built in ND's and shoulder rig built in.

    I looked at the c300 and to me the ergonomics were so strange and for the price I couldn't justify it. I've read that Canon and Sony consulted camera operators when designing both the c300 and fs700/100. What camera operators would want these ergonomic nightmares. What's wrong with putting a camera on your shoulder. Zacuto have made millions doing just that. Why not make shoulder mounted cameras with large sensors then?

    While I think Blackmagic will clean up with the BMC imagine if they released a m43 shoulder mount ( but still small ) camera with global shutter, ND filters xlr plugs with phantom power and a viewfinder the quality of the alphatron. Surely that's possible for under 10-15k. Alternatively I will give that money to third party companies to build the camera that one of the camera companies should be making.

  • #2
    TRUE

    I completely agree with you. i had my share of problems with red one.
    i strongly feel that camera companies should pay more attention to this aspect

    Originally posted by ryaninoz View Post
    I don't know if anyone else is frustrated by the state of affairs with cameras but here is my point of view. I am still on the list and excited about the BMC however wouldn't it be great to buy a camera that all you had to add to was a lens and a battery. I am confused as to which meccano set rig I construct, which evf I add, and how I power it. Imagine if a camera company gave us a shoulder mounted camera that was already set up to go. I'd happily pay 10-15 thousand for a shoulder mounted m43 camera with a decent viewfinder, built in ND's and shoulder rig built in.

    I looked at the c300 and to me the ergonomics were so strange and for the price I couldn't justify it. I've read that Canon and Sony consulted camera operators when designing both the c300 and fs700/100. What camera operators would want these ergonomic nightmares. What's wrong with putting a camera on your shoulder. Zacuto have made millions doing just that. Why not make shoulder mounted cameras with large sensors then?

    While I think Blackmagic will clean up with the BMC imagine if they released a m43 shoulder mount ( but still small ) camera with global shutter, ND filters xlr plugs with phantom power and a viewfinder the quality of the alphatron. Surely that's possible for under 10-15k. Alternatively I will give that money to third party companies to build the camera that one of the camera companies should be making.
    www.bijuviswanath.com

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree too

      Either a small box (like a bmc .. but with the lens on the end!)

      or an ENG cam (shrunk) is the way to go

      Maybe ikonostop? but im left eye so their finder looks no good to me .

      Canon seem to have no memory..

      thin.jpg

      S

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm sorry I don't share your frustration OP. I believe NDs should be 4x4, shoulder mounts should come off so you can get into tight spaces, and that monitors should be used over viewfinders ie... scopes, waveform monitor, etc...

        The BMCC is an interesting camera. I'll be putting it through it's paces as a low cost run and gun camera for documentary first. This camera also features raw acquisition and post in 12bit uncompressed DNG files and plenty of room for grading.
        Facebook - Angelis Digital Studio

        Comment


        • #5
          When I was considering a 7D, the online advice was mainly that since I had an ENG with Ikegamis background, I should avoid the more complicated and much harder to master shooting requirements of the DSLRs. Several well known people recommended a "traditional" 1/2" (or was it 1/4"...I forget) CCD camera because it had better ergonomics, resolution, features, no rolling shutter and no moire. I chose the path less traveled (I was up for a challenge) and got the 7D.

          Almost immediately, my footage stood out above the folks who were still shooting traditional CCD. My audio improved (DAR), my lighting requirements shrunk from 4,500 watts to 120 minus the heat. I could shoot in an office (just me and the talent...I call corporate executives "talent") with 30 minutes of set up maximum. I could work circles around an agency crew of 4 people and my footage looked at least as good...often better (bokeh was a very new look back then and clients loved it).

          Now, I've grown quite fond of using the 7D...warts and all. To this day, I make an excellent living with it and owe recent World travels to the footage I can get out of my 7D. I see the BMC as a new challenge. As I use it, I fully expect to grow comfortable with it's operation and learn to get nice looking footage from it.

          After all is said and done, it is the Indian and not the arrow.

          Comment


          • #6
            there is a difference between ENG cameras and other smaller shoulder mount solutions.

            ENG cameras are too big, and not everyone shoots documentary/reality or ENG work, so not everyone needs a shoulder mount. but something smaller like an arriflex 416 body could be more ergonomically pleasing.

            and your asking for a high end prosumer/entry level cinema priced camera to have better capabilities and the same ergonomics as a 2/3 ENG camera. that's not reasonable, there needs to be a sacrifice somewhere in the equation.

            i would not lump the c300 with the fs700 in the same ergonomic level.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am saying a good Indian will adapt any arrow to his needs. When/if I get my BMC, I have every confidence that I will adapt my procedures to using the BMC to give me what I want out of a camera. I will also probably hone my wants based on the strengths of the BMC. I don't rent cameras, so I won't have the choice of the best camera for the job. It is a good thing for me that "the job" is fairly fixed. And where did I ask "for a high end prosumer/entry level cinema priced camera to have better capabilities" than anything. I was saying that I plan to adapt and overcome. Hoo Rah!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Amr Rahmy View Post
                asking for a high end prosumer/entry level cinema priced camera to have better capabilities and the same ergonomics as a 2/3 ENG camera. that's not reasonable,
                The size and shape of a camera doesnt really affect cost (beyond making it smaller) - I mean a toaster cost $15 and is about the same amount of plastic!

                But ENG form is not perfect for everything for sure, and a chip-in a box is probably the most universal because it can be built for all needs

                Honestly the BMC is not far off that..

                S

                Comment


                • #9
                  you asked for x amount in price for ENG camera ergonomics. and x amount is high end prosumer/entry level cinema.

                  if you make it bigger, you'll have to make it both lighter and sturdier, and shift the center of gravity. and some people will complain about not having enough buttons and switches when the camera is that big and more buttons and functions could be added.

                  which means more designing and engineering, which would add cost, and you would not expect the same company making ENG cameras to make you a camera with the same ergonomic features as an ENG camera and add in much better features and then reduce the price as well. that's not logical on any level. and i mentioned as well as others that not everyone needs an ENG style camera. and i think a lot of people are adding in the follow focus, mattebox, nd filters, rails, ...etc. as part of the shoulder mount rig. you will need those in any case.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brad Ferrell View Post
                    ... I believe NDs should be 4x4 ...
                    Hi Brad: It's OK with me if your answer is yes, but I'm curious: By your comment, are you saying you prefer NDs to be in a matte box instead of in a built-in rotating filter wheel? Is it because NDs in a matte box can be stacked? Just wondering what you meant. Cheers.
                    Last edited by Peter J. DeCrescenzo; 10-14-2012, 12:47 PM.
                    www.peterdv.com
                    Blog: http://HereForTheWeather.wordpress.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by morgan_moore View Post
                      The size and shape of a camera doesnt really affect cost (beyond making it smaller) ...
                      Heat management is one of the most difficult technical challenges faced by video cameras designers, arguably the most fundamental one. The size, shape, density, materials, capabilities, and target selling price of a camera hugely affect how it handles heat management, and in turn are the result of how the designers approached the issue.

                      It's one of the reasons why I, too, strongly favor having the option of "sensor in a small box" video camera design. By removing as much as possible from the box other than the sensor & its support electronics, heat management is greatly simplified, and for my purposes, the camera becomes more versatile and cost-effective.

                      Other necessary "camera" components -- recording device, LCD/EVF, power, A/V & control I/O breakout, rig/support, etc. -- are nowadays available relatively easily and cost-effectively from a wide variety of sources.

                      The BMCC is the closest we've gotten to this ideal in terms of cost & video quality so far. Certainly there have been "box" camera heads available from major manufacturers for decades, but most are either conventional in terms of video quality, and/or much more expensive.

                      I'd love it if a future BMCC was even more stripped-down, but not the only model, maybe one of a small family of cams available in a few different size, shapes & form factors.
                      www.peterdv.com
                      Blog: http://HereForTheWeather.wordpress.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I meant making a small box is hard cos you gotta get all the clobber away from the sensor

                        Surely a bigger box is easier?

                        Interesting on my EX1 the is almost a gap between the sensor and the rest of the body

                        Back to ergonomics..

                        Id like a box, or a great ergonomic cam

                        The FS, C300 and all fall between the posts - neither box nor nice to handle

                        So I guess that makes the BMC the best design for the moment

                        S

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm all for a super modular system.

                          Have a main box, a box with different sensors in front of it, boxes for different media, I/O and so on.
                          So you can configure your camera perfectly for each job and only buy or rent when you really need it.

                          And yeah, I know that sounds like RED to some degree. But I mean even more versatile and modular and for a Blackmagick price.

                          Frank
                          Blog: http://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I kinda like the modular thing as well. It means the camera can be whatever you want it to be. Shoulder, tripod, handheld, slapped easily on a car door without big rigs, in a giant studio cage with devices hanging off left, right and center, or in a tight corner with no room for anything except the DSLR sized body and lens.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ryaninoz View Post
                              I'd happily pay 10-15 thousand for a shoulder mounted m43 camera with a decent viewfinder, built in ND's and shoulder rig built in.
                              Modular is the way to go. In a year the body may be outdated. The extra $12,000 can be spent on support gear that will be in service till you grow old.
                              Last edited by ROCKMORE; 10-14-2012, 04:06 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X