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Ursa Mini 4.6k vs C300 Mark II - What looks better?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by innerspark View Post
    Many long time running narrative TV shows that ended with RED or Alexa (dexter, dr who, californication, etc), were initially shot on 900 and f23, but not since 3-4 years ago. however sitcoms, many many daytime shows and soaps are still on 2/3", I still see 900's for field coverage during NFL games, and soccer. Also seen them used on talk shows and EFP work. You don't see them for rent anymore, and didn't really see them for rent back then either because studios and lots dropped 100k each for each of them and currently have no reason to upgrade. It is a dinosaur, but it still gets plenty of work. The proliferation of large sensors doesn't mean the 2/3s are dead.

    In South Korea, even more, but alas, a totally different market. Everything is Sony 2/3" here. Nearly everything. Those wonderful "K-Dramas" that have become so popular now, are still f900/f23 and ENG cams. Sony, and to a minor degree Pansonic, has a massive hold on the TV market here, and you'll only be seeing ARRI and RED for narrative film work.

    DP's working on television often get far less choice on gear than they do on films. Narrative television is changing that, but the massive shift to narrative TV is newer than many think. Sitcoms were the crux of american television for a long time. Studios and lots have invested in their systems, and super fast turn around times. Many TV DPs have stated as much. It's why the alexa/amira got the mxf mpeg2 upgrade, that everyone thought was an utter downgrade. Lots of studios still want mpeg2 with rec709 burnt in.

    Soooooo.... as we get a little OT, but does that relate to the C300 MK2? As I mentioned (in another c300 thread) this camera was not really designed to be an A-Cam. ( though it could certainly be with the talent behind it) but it's color matching feature and slightly expanded color space clearly show how Canon intends this product to fit into existing professional workflows. Perhaps it'll upgrade from a C to a B cam along side an Alexa or RED. The URSA, Mini have been about that highest quality digital film look. The cameras were engineered with different goals in mind. So the URsa mini "looks better" to us because it's the look many of us are aspiring . The C300 MK2's identity is somewhat less specific.
    There may still be some F900s floating around but many of those 2/3" cameras are now Sony XD or newer models running fiber. But you could indeed rent F900s back in the day. Panavision customized and rented. Clairmont famously swapped out the lens mount for a metal mount to prevent or lessen back focus issues. Wexler and VER were huge in them as they rent to most reality/stage/news based show out there. Abel Cine had them, etc etc etc But never said 2/3" was dead. Its always been the standard for ENG.

    Most TV shows that shoot on the Alexa that I have worked on tend to shoot 1080 Prores 444 LOG. One of the exceptions was Agents of Shield that shoots 2k.

    Was the C300/C500 meant to be an "A" camera...it wasn't meant not to. Canon went out and shot a lot of short films for something they called Project Imagination. Each one was exclusively shot with either C300s or C500s in different configurations, and they were outfitted with top crews. I worked on the one that was shot c500 externally to Codex.

    And I dont know about now so much but some shows did attempt to shoot on them exclusively...A now defunct series that barely made it a full season called Animal Practice was a 3 camera show that shot on C300s. Terrible series, but they cameras had nothing to do with it.

    I also worked on a TV movie/Pilot shot by the President of Local 600 a couple years ago that was done so using C300s. So, again...tools for the job. It does take more to make a C300 truly viable for high end production. Same would be true if anyone tried to use an URSA or Mini in the same scenario.

    As far as these "C" cameras or speciality cams "moving up to B cam" it doesn't really work that way, unless you are working really low budget/indie. If you are shooting a large 2 camera show, your B cam will be the same package as your A cam. Matching looks, matching AKS, etc etc.

    If ANY camera is going to peak the interest of DPs on larger shows in to giving BM a shot, aside from the Pocket, I think it will be the Mini. I feel there is a lot of potential there.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Taikonaut View Post
      I know someone at our old uni who shot a series of education videos using his iphone and because his very basic lighting was just right everything look perfect without needing any grade, but like I said earlier the uni does not pay him or even want his service and he got a small grant from a European fund. In all honesty his iphone videos are not inferior apart from a few DR challenges when compared next to the RED videos from an outside company that the uni hires for themselves.

      Unfortunately some clients, especially in the public sector were the money they spent comes from the tax payers, tend to go for prestige over content so if a company that they given jobs to uses a camera that was used in a hollywood blockbuster it helps to massage the institution's egos to justify spending our money. Showing up with a crew gives the impression of that ego massaging and it gets blogged about on the institution's social media even though everybody else thinks the content even the IQ was a load of shite.

      There is something to be said about putting on a bit of a "dog and pony show" for your client. They are spending good money, they want to see pro gear with pro accessories, not just a DSLR....but a DSLR package with rods, matte box, follow focus, etc that looks less like a DSLR...they feel better about their decision.

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      • #48
        check this out

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxN06naWg1w

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Sarlacc View Post
          It does take more to make a C300 truly viable for high end production. Same would be true if anyone tried to use an URSA or Mini in the same scenario.
          Honest question, what extra would it take for URSA or Mini? Maybe BMD are already working on it or could if they read the feedback?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Steven Abrams View Post
            Honest question, what extra would it take for URSA or Mini? Maybe BMD are already working on it or could if they read the feedback?
            Im not sure what the internals boards are capable of...but it could be as simple as a company such Panavision, Otto Nemez, or Clairmont to buy a few and make mounting plates with 2 and 3 pin power ports for 12/24 power to standard accessories along with a top plates offering more mounting solutions.

            Or BM adding them, so break outs can be added.

            The weight of the USRA is a pretty big deal. And while the 10" screen is cool, the couple I know who bought one say its worthless unless you're in a studio setting.

            Reliability...BM has no track record yet. With each firmware they are getting closer.

            Word of mouth...really someone with influence just has to make a case for them and prove they are viable. But its hard when you have other companies dominating the game. The cost of the camera is of no consequence to a big budget DP.

            This can all change over night and suddenly BM is a big player. But they aren't there yet.

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            • #51
              Shane Hurlbut is a big DP in Hollywood who is a fan of BlackMagic cameras.

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