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  • Originally posted by rick.lang View Post
    As you say, it's not the A7s, so it's not that magical, but perhaps you'll be the judge of its efficacy on the whole image latitude.
    Sure, it's not as magical in low light as an a7s, but who cares? If you need to shoot night for day, get an a7s. If you want a dedicated cinema camera that has great color and dynamic range and lets you capture in raw as well as ProRes (or similar), there are only two choices under $10k, and one of them is only under $10k if you use it barebones (KineMAX -- I don't know whether or not that's shipping to end users yet or not, either).

    This obsession with low light is comical. Now that Sony has a low light monster (which has multiplied) in the wild, everyone's obsessed with low light. Whatever happened to making movies?

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    • It's not an Obsession with low light, I would like to take my BMD cameras in places where I can't exactly light the way I want and still be able to pull a workable image without heavy FPN. I'm not asking for 20,000 ISO. I'm looking to be able to set my camera to a mere 3200 & work without having to switch brands, as I enjoy the technology behind the current BMD cameras. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would want something that isn't that far fetched.

      Yes I know I can push the exposure in POST but I'd rather see it while shooting so I can adjust as needed. Everyone loves to say different camera different job, well BMD cameras have been hitting the same mark each and every time for daylight so it would be nice to get 3200 iso in a camera since most of us have several generations of their equipment where I can select a different BMD camera for a particular job.

      Just saying....

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      • It is actually... that doesn't mean that you're one of the obsessed, but it is an obsession. It's the hunt for the silver bullet, much like people who buy Red cameras thinking that the red dot on the side is a talent button rather than a logo.

        The BMCC and BMPCC have better low light performance than they're reputed to already, and the 4.6K sensor has an even lower noise floor.

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        • Originally posted by mjamerson View Post
          I'm looking to be able to set my camera to a mere 3200
          A "mere" 3200!
          What are you shooting? Scenes lit by candle that you want to look like daylight? If you're shooting in low light, shouldn't it be DARK?

          BM have not said anything officially about 3200, so count it out and look for another camera if its a deal breaker for you.

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          • Non lit scenes look non lit. 800 is great for cinema where we light for story. I also don't see the need to push as high as 3200 ISO. You need light to balance your motivating source. Even lighting by candlelight at that extreme will result in clipped candle flames. The extra stops in the 4.6k URSA is greatly welcomed though.
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            • Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
              What do we think then ? Should we not post anything about the fact that cameras are being tested ? Better not to know ?

              I get it and I know it's frustrating. But onve the camera is shipping you can bet there's going to be a ton of free advice from those that have used it and gone before you. Maybe it's worth being a little less dispiriting ?

              I haven't really delved deep into low light yet, but my instincts say it will be marginally improved on the existing 2.5k.

              Noise is better and the 4.6k res also helps reduce the perception of noise too.

              jb
              Thnx for the info, even if just a little I'm devour it with pleasure.
              Last edited by freshtea; 11-02-2015, 06:50 AM.

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              • Also owning a couple of Sony cameras (including a7s and fs700+Q7) I find myself longing for something (hopefully) with lower noise floor & cleaner blacks. It feels like a hunt to gather little pieces of info around the web but so far from the the few things we been told it looks like the image is going to be really clean even in 1600.

                An interview not to long ago they mentioned that they are trying to achieve global shutter without loosing any dynamic range. (if I'm not mistaking)

                I just hope they keep the gyroscope in the EF-version of the camera.

                And with a little luck they can push the frame rates a little higher down the road. 96fps in 4.6k nom nom
                Last edited by freshtea; 11-02-2015, 06:57 AM.

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                • Originally posted by Steven Abrams View Post
                  A "mere" 3200!
                  What are you shooting? Scenes lit by candle that you want to look like daylight? If you're shooting in low light, shouldn't it be DARK?

                  BM have not said anything officially about 3200, so count it out and look for another camera if its a deal breaker for you.
                  I already know it's not there, John answered that question for me back around NAB. What I want to see is how the 1600 holds up compared to the other sensors as mentioned before. 3200 isn't that bright first and foremost specially when you don't want to shoot almost wide open, I shoot a lot of evening work where I can't bring tons of lights. It's amazing how people on this forum act as if BMD camera lack the technology to shoot in these conditions, because they clearly DON'T. It's a choice they make, not a limitation of hardware just a different direction in the business plan.

                  As I've said in the first post I'd love to see how the low light in this camera handles compared to it's relatives, please go forum bash else where as my question is very valid.

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                  • Originally posted by mjamerson View Post
                    I already know it's not there, John answered that question for me back around NAB. What I want to see is how the 1600 holds up compared to the other sensors as mentioned before. 3200 isn't that bright first and foremost specially when you don't want to shoot almost wide open, I shoot a lot of evening work where I can't bring tons of lights. It's amazing how people on this forum act as if BMD camera lack the technology to shoot in these conditions, because they clearly DON'T. It's a choice they make, not a limitation of hardware just a different direction in the business plan.

                    As I've said in the first post I'd love to see how the low light in this camera handles compared to it's relatives, please go forum bash else where as my question is very valid.
                    Except BM cameras don't work like other cameras when it comes to ISO/ASA. The camera is always at 800 and it adjusts it's curve for the other settings. In RAW, it's just metadata. ProRes bakes that curve in. 1600 is slightly different, but only marginally. Perhaps they can do 3200, but I don't think most would consider it usable.

                    I can definitely see how a true 3200 could be useful, especially for event and documentary work. It would be awesome if BM could implement a "low-light mode", but I just don't think BM sees event and documentary work as their primary userbase. I mean, if I wanted to light a gray card at f/1.4 at 3200, I would only need .7 footcandles. f/2.8 would only be 2.7 fc. I know you're not shooting near wide-open, so you likely need more light than that, especially if you want to ETTR, but that's pretty dark.

                    We'll just have to wait and see. Maybe all that extra resolution will make 1600 viable for what you do.

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                    • Really wondering why they havent released us a sample raw file of some sort. They released a raw file for BMCC 3 years ago for us to mess around with. I dont understand.
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                      • Originally posted by jsfilmz View Post
                        Really wondering why they havent released us a sample raw file of some sort. They released a raw file for BMCC 3 years ago for us to mess around with. I dont understand.
                        Same here. Want to know how it works for a halo film
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                        • Originally posted by jsfilmz View Post
                          Really wondering why they havent released us a sample raw file of some sort. They released a raw file for BMCC 3 years ago for us to mess around with. I dont understand.
                          It's not rocket science. They're not ready to release a raw file yet. It's pretty damn simple. How is that hard to understand?

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                          • Originally posted by Steven Abrams View Post
                            It's not rocket science. They're not ready to release a raw file yet. It's pretty damn simple. How is that hard to understand?
                            There's a lot of frustration.

                            If they tell us what's up or give some updates that would calm a lot of frustration. Testers have the camera so are they still tweaking the sensor then via firmware? If so then at least let us know because it's not like the testers have just received the cameras.
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                            • Originally posted by Note Suwanchote View Post
                              If they tell us what's up or give some updates that would calm a lot of frustration.
                              Grant gave one in his IBC video (metalwork was delayed and changes made) and all other interviews with BMD have them saying Nov/Dec shipping so I guess there's nothing new to report since then?

                              Originally posted by Note Suwanchote View Post
                              Testers have the camera so are they still tweaking the sensor then via firmware?
                              We can guess, but what would you expect from beta testing? I would expect the testers are giving feedback on stability and image quality and BM are adjusting things during the process. So yes, probably. But since when has BM been open about that kind of process? You expect them to change that?

                              I don't understand the frustration when this happens every time. We know what to expect. BM are private and say the bare minimum. Choose another company if that doesn't work for you, there's plenty of them.

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                              • Originally posted by Steven Abrams View Post
                                Grant gave one in his IBC video (metalwork was delayed and changes made) and all other interviews with BMD have them saying Nov/Dec shipping so I guess there's nothing new to report since then?



                                We can guess, but what would you expect from beta testing? I would expect the testers are giving feedback on stability and image quality and BM are adjusting things during the process. So yes, probably. But since when has BM been open about that kind of process? You expect them to change that?

                                I don't understand the frustration when this happens every time. We know what to expect. BM are private and say the bare minimum. Choose another company if that doesn't work for you, there's plenty of them.
                                It doesn't happen every time. The last 2 years were much better in terms of communication and shipping.

                                And didn't know about the metalwork, thanks. It's in the hands of the tester so something along the lines of "we're in the final phase now, the metal IS ready and so forth since the 4k is shipping".
                                If you don't like people to post then it's probably best not to view this thread.
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