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BMPC 4K & RED EPIC Side-by-Side Video

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ctrl View Post
    Yes, sorry for the slomos I couldn't resist.
    Yeah that was dirty...i'm sucker for slo mo

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    • #32
      It is only a fair test when Raw comes out for BMPC.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by rze View Post
        BM Onboard prores encoding adds sharpening. Red adds no sharpening to the r3ds.
        There is no sharpening applied to onboard ProRes encoding on any BM camera. It's a straight encode based on that same de-bayer that's in Resolve V9 for the BMCC and for the pocket V10. There's no "mojo" happening.

        You have no idea what RED does to the file because their RAW is a closed system. For any application to work with RED files they need the R3D SDK and no one knows what actually happens under the hood with RED. For years they haven't even been able to say what bit depth their RAW cameras work at.

        JB

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        • #34
          The BMPC 4K looks way sharper but less DR to me. Great test BTW! Can't wait to try the BMPC 4K!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Emanuel View Post
            Indeed. It costs several BMPC4k units more ;-)

            In any case, everything is still in the hands of the cinematographer, if he'll be able to avoid the clipping, that is, if the shooting circumstances will allow the shooter to set up the exposure accordingly in order you don't feel the budget or the limits on it. It is possible now, that's the big news. No more crappy amateur codec proper of home video, neither small screen size as primary target. If RED was a bolshevik revolution, this is the velvet revolution...

            E. :-)
            I like your analogy at the end, and indeed, no matter what camera, the 'hands of the cinematographer' play a big part. BMPC is quite remarkable in this evolving 4K arena, IMO, and the price... Exciting times.

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            • #36
              my only down fall with red cameras are their skin tones(and price), so looking at that, i like the bmc ones better, more alexa like…though they better fix the red hole soon, doesnt make me that mad since they had this issue with the pocket camera and fixed it immediately with firmware, but a little mad they let something slip like that again!
              so do you ever find the IR filters below .9 cause green in the highlights, i had this issue on alexas so i never use IR NDs unless they are 1.2 and up.

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              • #37
                Guys.

                BMD know about the black dot problem. It didn't slip through.

                It's not actually a "simple" fix from my lay understanding. It's a compromise that comes with optimizing of the sensor.

                As of today the Alexa does it as well (v7)

                JB

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                • #38
                  I cannot believe this camera costs 2995. What an incredible deal.
                  Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF

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                  • #39
                    Thanx for this test.
                    Unfortunately the slow motion messed it up totally!
                    As I can not compare the movement of the camera (something I am very interested to see how it holds up.. so that was extremely unfortunate).

                    All in all very close... but tell me why does the RED look more Cinematic? The color tones the flat image?
                    I find the RED just looks more "cinematic" then the BM4K.
                    Last edited by Dreadas; 02-17-2014, 08:37 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Red's still look "Red" to me in skin tones and in everything else, and it still looks videoish to me. Don't understand their coloremetry. The BMPC color looks closer to what it should look. And again, they are comparing Red Compressed RAW to a camera that does not have it's compressed RAW yet and was shot with 4:2:2 pro res, so it may look better than RED when it has that in the camera. Remember how Attack of the Clones looked muddy in the theater as it was shot with 4:2:2, and Revenge of the Sith looked a ton sharper shot with 4:4:4 in the theater.
                      Go to my site to see my current Production and Post Production Gear
                      http://www.daydreamersproductions.com/

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                      • #41
                        Both look great to me. The BMPC however looks hyper real or video-y...I'm not even sure what it looks like. But not cinematic, for some reason here. The Epic def looks more cinematic to my eyes. I duno if I should judge colour from this on the RED though because of the ND used...think it affects the colour more. I think also you should have used the same lens on bith cameras to make it more consistent. Anyway...many thanks for doing this.
                        Darren Scott
                        Freelance Director/Director of Photography


                        https://vimeo.com/jambredzvisions/videos

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                        • #42
                          If you want "cinematic" look use a soft lens.

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                          • #43
                            I actually found the BM4K to be more cinematic. Found the colours and skin-tones more appealing too.
                            My Official Blackmagic Micro Footage: https://vimeo.com/155747487

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                            • #44
                              ditto. i like the motion and grain structure of the bm4k where it really is film like as well as color rendition on the skin, but the RED obviously wins in DR.
                              Last edited by prio; 02-18-2014, 12:38 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by jambredz View Post
                                Both look great to me. The BMPC however looks hyper real or video-y...I'm not even sure what it looks like. But not cinematic, for some reason here. The Epic def looks more cinematic to my eyes. I duno if I should judge colour from this on the RED though because of the ND used...think it affects the colour more. I think also you should have used the same lens on bith cameras to make it more consistent. Anyway...many thanks for doing this.
                                My intention wasn't a perfect match or a scientific comparison. We didn't have the same filters and lenses because this was more a "lets pack stuff we have and go out shooting". As stated above i just wanted to see what happens if you shot with both cameras and try to intercut. Will that work at a production where you don't what a quality shift between shots? If i would do that for real, i would also not use the same lenses on both etc.

                                I will try to find some time this week to do a basic grading with the footage and see what happens then.

                                Beside that, i posted some pictures of the shooting and the cam setups on Facebook:
                                https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...5488248&type=1

                                @all: Thanks for the great response!
                                Toby Kahler - DP / Cameraman
                                www.motionctrl.de | www.toby-kahler.com
                                twitter | http://www.facebook.com/motionctrl

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