Pieces. A new selection of footage.

[John Brawley]

Was that construction in the background making your sound guy curse the almighty?

Yes. But for story reasons that's why we were there....

jb

[RyGuy]

Was that construction in the background making your sound guy curse the almighty?

[vladnik]

exactly ...
cleanest image without clipped highlights is our goal ...
no size fits all ...
and one more thing different iso ratings dont change DR ....
it just shift more stops to shadows or highlights

[John Brawley]

@John Brawley
http://provideocoalition.com/index.p...you_use_it/P1/
not for alexa for BMC ...
this is forALEXA...
qoute
"Arri’s FAQ states that an 18% gray card should read at 39% in LogC mode and 38% in Rec 709, but none of my regular technical sources believes that 38% is a proper 18% gray value in Rec 709."

Interesting.

for 709 38% does seem to low. I'm used to more like 50% or just below.

I think this is the thing. There's no RIGHT answer because it just depends on where you want to BIAS the over and under exposure. There's a rage of possible ISO settings that will yield different results. The sensor is nominally 800, but at 320 you'll get a less noisy image with slightly less DR, or at higher ISO's you'll get more DR with a noisier image. I think we're back into a more subjective argument again, and with RAW, the exposure theory comes from assessing each scene to DECIDE where to expose, rather than doing what the METER or Histogram says.

jb

[vladnik]

@John Brawley
http://provideocoalition.com/index.p...you_use_it/P1/
37% is probably for BMC ...
this is for ALEXA...
qoute
"Arri’s FAQ states that an 18% gray card should read at 39% in LogC mode and 38% in Rec 709, but none of my regular technical sources believes that 38% is a proper 18% gray value in Rec 709."
prores record between 16-235 with all curves (log , 709 )...if BMD optimize log in that range than it wont be any difference ...
example sony f35 slog goes up to 104 ire ....

[John Brawley]

i would probably use dnxhd and rate camera @400 in daylight ...
because dnxhd use superwhite but prores clips everything above 100 ire...

I think it depends on the FILM or VIDEO mode. My understanding is that in LOG mode it's not like regular 709 where u=you have super white or 100+ values.

I think they are already re-mapped to mean that when you have a zebra set to 100 it is showing sensor clip NOT 100 ire when in fact it's recording to 109.

jb

[John Brawley]

John did you do any sharpening in post? Looks plenty sharp to me, without being "over sharp." Just wondering what post processing was done to it.

No sharpening AT ALL.

No Noise reduction at all.

I like my files organic and free range.... ;-)


jb

[John Brawley]

i just think that there is maybe one more stop of information in highlights but prores clipped them ...
because i can see some noise in the shadows i would rate camera slower , record dnxhd and then recover 100-110 ire in broadcast legal levels ...and u right protecting highlights is most important ...
or shooting raw ETTR (be carefuller not to clip highlights ) and then transcode to cineform RAW..

If you do this you're over saturating the sensor. You will loose DR, but you also improve the SNR, and get cleaner blacks. So better noise and nicer blacks but less overall DR.

jb

[nickjbedford]

Yes, I'm thinking this will be the case for BMCC as well as I don't really know much cameras with 'native ISO800' sensors.

The RED and ARRI digital cinema cameras all have a native ISO of 800 as well as the BMD and the Canon C300 is ISO 850.

[John Brawley]

as i remeber first shots made by John Brawley are done on 320 iso ...
that is probaby native iso....
even alexa when properly expose put middle gray on 40% IRE (native is probably 400)...
BMC film log in PORES is probably around 37%i IRE and thats is standard for log curves ...

The original test that had ISO320 was actually the setting the eventually became ISO 400.

The camera is 800 ISO native. These ISO setting only apply to ProRes and DNx.

When shooting RAW the ISO doesn't apply, EXCEPT, that it affects how you EXPOSE the camera....sort of. I know that sound's obvious but it affects how you monitor the exposure. Your "intent" is then recorded as Metadata and this is what's taken as a starting point in Resolve or Photoshop. But you can also choose to ignore those ISO settings and use something else.

I've never really subscribed to the ETTR or ETTL theory. I've always exposed video / digital cameras by protecting the highlights. Generally speaking, most cameras have more shadow range in terms of stops than highlights. So by underexposing, I can "trade" some shadow range for highlight range. So this is a bit like ETTL

So I like to have a way of indicating exposure clipping. In this case, the zebra @ 100% works well. I can then open the exposure until i see clipping indicated. i can then choose to "protect" those highlights by then dropping the exposure till they are just under clipping. Or, depending on the subject and what's important, I may also choose to let those particular highlights go and clip, because another part of the range is MORE important to me.

So in the 35mm wide shot of Ian and Ella sitting at the table at the cafe, I set the exposure of the clouds. I wanted to try and HOLD that cloud info AND Ian and Ella who were sitting in shadow. BUT when you look at the close up of the same scene, you'll notice the exposure is lifted a fair bit.

Now in the grade I tried to lift the exposure of the first wide frame so I could see as much of Ian and Ella as I could without making it too mikly. But you can clearly see they are right on the edge of what you can recover from the shadows. But this is a VERY difficult shot. I didn't meter the difference but it's CLOUDS lit by SUN and holding information in the SHADOWS and trying to make them look almost normal. A huge ask of any camera. You can see how much better the image is in the close up once the exposure is more health.

Now, I don't know how you would apply an ETTR or ETTL theory to metering or judging exposure for these scenes...

Now middle tray at 37 IRE on Alexa ? Where do you get that from ?


jb

[t.p.]

wow, this looks amazing ,im breathless ,thanks JB

[StarCoreFilms]

Mind = BLOWN!!! Images are PHENOMENAL! Is there a chance the camera won't get certified? If not, what does BMD do then?

[vladnik]

i just think that there is maybe one more stop of information in highlights but prores clipped them ...
because i can see some noise in the shadows i would rate camera slower , record dnxhd and then recover 100-110 ire in broadcast legal levels ...and u right protecting highlights is most important ...
or shooting raw ETTR (be carefuller not to clip highlights ) and then transcode to cineform RAW..

[stip]

In harsh, bright conditions like in this film, with direct sun hitting the actors or subjects, it can make sense to expose for ISO 800 to have more headroom in the highlights and protect them from clipping.

[vladnik]

i would probably use dnxhd and rate camera @400 in daylight ...
because dnxhd use superwhite but prores clips everything above 100 ire...