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  • Originally posted by KyleMcConaghy View Post
    Haha, you read my mind. Totally. I just watched it again today and thought, "man, that motion looks so much better". What do you think?

    Of course, we won't share any of this with dvxuser.
    To me, it's a step above or at least on par with the GH2 and Alexa in that regard. I don't know how it could not be obvious to others, it's akin to someone not being able to tell the difference between pink and coral I guess? Haha

    And, yeah, I have no intention to participate in that discussion anywhere else, any longer... unless someone drags my name into it again. xD

    Anyway, motion's a major deal for me. Brian@202020 stated the things that were most important to him, I'd say for me:

    1. DR
    2. Motion
    3. Resolution or Resolved Detail
    4. Semi-Low Noise Floor
    5. Larger Sensor

    Everything else I can get around, but the top three are what brings me to the yard, so to speak. I feel like I'm going to be overtly satisfied with the Magic Cam, once I change the mount.

    SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
    Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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    • Originally posted by Kholi View Post
      I have no intention to participate in that discussion anywhere else, any longer... unless someone drags my name into it again. xD

      Anyway, motion's a major deal for me.
      Agreed. I think after sharing my opinions that last time, Ive learned my lesson : ). But in regards to the BMC, I feel they just nailed it. From the first few seconds of jb's original test footage, I knew this was a winner.

      Although it is interesting how the gh2, alexa and BMC seem to be the only digital cameras capable of pulling it off almost perfectly.
      Test footage Vimeo page: https://vimeo.com/romanalaivi

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      • Originally posted by Kholi View Post
        To me, it's a step above or at least on par with the GH2 and Alexa in that regard. I don't know how it could not be obvious to others, it's akin to someone not being able to tell the difference between pink and coral I guess? Haha

        And, yeah, I have no intention to participate in that discussion anywhere else, any longer... unless someone drags my name into it again. xD

        Anyway, motion's a major deal for me. Brian@202020 stated the things that were most important to him, I'd say for me:

        1. DR
        2. Motion
        3. Resolution or Resolved Detail
        4. Semi-Low Noise Floor
        5. Larger Sensor

        Everything else I can get around, but the top three are what brings me to the yard, so to speak. I feel like I'm going to be overtly satisfied with the Magic Cam, once I change the mount.
        Your #2 "motion" falls in line with my list as well. I just said I hate Long-GOP, mainly for the motion issues that go with it. I agree that the motion looks really nice here.

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        • GH2 is very poor DR even when compared with entry level dSLRs

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          • The GH2's resolution is not enough to overcome all it's other short comings most of all poor skin tones even with the hack. Look at all the resolution and detail in this turd! Not what I want. 5D Mark III is soft as can be. Having owned a 5D Mark II, Mark III, GH2 and a 7D (already sold the 5D Mark III and 7D to pay for the BMD CC) I'll be shooting with the 5D Mark II until I get my BMD CC. The 5D Mark II with the vaf-5d2 filter and magic lantern looks pretty damn good despite lacking the resolution of the GH2. The AA filter in the 5D Mark III ruined that camera for me. Way to heavy handed. I was all excited about that camera too but after having it for a month I had to stop lying to myself that sharpening up the footage in post fixed things for 5D Mark III. It didn't the cammera is soft. Have some one coming to look at the GH2 tomorrow. Hopefully I can get rid of that one as well. The 5D while having it's own issues with skin tones as least is pleasant looking and with both Tungsten and HMI Lighting even though not accurate. Florescent and other lights not so much but hey what can you do? The Alexa is the only camera I have seen that produces good skin tones. Not as good as film but at least they are in the neighborhood. That is the biggest reason why I am so excited about the BMD CC! Skin tones look way more like the Alexa instead of looking like the ghastly RED skin tones or the skin tones on DSLRs which just don't cut it including the 5D Mark II which I do like but is still not right. Look at the Pirates of the Caribbean movies shot on film versus the last on shot on Red. What a GIANT step backwards! Then compare Ironman shot on film with Avengers shot on Alexa. While not as good as Ironman, The Avengers holds up really well in terms of skin tones. Most of the stuff I shoot primarily has people in it even if they aren't the main focus. People's skin has to look alive! This is not my original comment but I'll do my best to quote it or better yet paraphrase it from a friend of mine who is fortunate and talented enough to work on mainly big budget stuff. "Working with Red footage is great in that you can grade it to look just about any way you want it to but it's like dying or painting clay any color you want, it still looks like mud. You can have muddy skin tones in any hue or shade but the tonality is still that of mud or clay." I am leaving his name out of this on purpose because the last 3 movies he has worked on have all been shot on Red and I don't want to compromise him in any way being that he hates RED skin tones.

            If you look at people's faces under good lights close up it's amazing all the wonderful things that are happening in their. It's like the light slightly penetrates the skin and bounces around before being reflected back out and skin is not the same thickness or same level of translucency all over. That is why tonality is so important. Film does a glorious job with this. Alexa comes close and BMD CC seems to be headed in the right direction. I have no inside information and have not seen anything that the rest of you have not seen but I am very, very excited by the little we have seen. I have very little doubt that the footage delivered by this camera will deliver good skin tones which is something that can only be said of Film and the Alexa. Good skin tones is worth a hell of lot more than 3 grand my friends. This really is the big game changer for me. Access to good skin tones for $3000. If you don't shoot humans then their are a ton of amazing cameras already out their for you. If you have human beings in most of what shoot and can't afford to shoot on 35mm film or rent an Alexa for every shoot then salvation is on it's way and it's called the the Blackmagic Cinema Camera!
            Last edited by David; 07-31-2012, 12:37 AM.

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            • I agree with most of what David says above. Although I don't hate on Red so much. The skin tones have a lot to do with the colorist, and of course the light. They chose that pallete for the most part.

              However, when bright highlights hit the skin, the sensor makes all the difference. Film is still the most natural-looking medium for capturing that, but these latest generation are quickly catching up. I can live with BM, Alexa and even Red if done right (slightly underexposed). The only one I can hope to afford, however, is this one.

              I'm really hoping that BM is using this time extension to push that sensor to its max. dynamic range and get the number up above 14. It is supposedly feasible with that sensor, so why not?
              Filmmaker - Author
              https://jgiambrone.wordpress.com/

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              • I disagree with just about everything David says, especially regarding the GH2 color, DR, etc.

                But, different eyes for different people.

                SKYPE (best way to talk to me): Camera_Kholi | twitter
                Avery and Pete: Superseeds Feature Film Trailer

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                • Originally posted by Kholi View Post
                  I feel like I'm going to be overtly satisfied with the Magic Cam, once I change the mount.
                  Has there been any more talk regarding the mount? Is it potentially possible to change it? I was assuming not, but that would be pretty cool if so.
                  http://kylemcconaghy.com | My Reel

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                  • Originally posted by Kholi View Post
                    I disagree with just about everything David says, especially regarding the GH2 color, DR, etc.

                    But, different eyes for different people.
                    I am so glad there are people who disagree with me and agree with you! I was able to sell my GH2 for used for $600 dollars! Not much less than what I payed for it new. So glad to be rid of it. More money for new gear!

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                    • Well hacked, the gh2 is obviously superior to the 5dII/III in every way. But, once we get our hands on the BMC, the GH2 will make a damn fine B cam. I may even pick up one more since they're so useful. The cool thing is that the GH2 has a similar cadence to the BMC in regards to motion and will really cut nicely together. Best of both worlds.
                      Test footage Vimeo page: https://vimeo.com/romanalaivi

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                      • Originally posted by Roman View Post
                        Well hacked, the gh2 is obviously superior to the 5dII/III in every way. But, once we get our hands on the BMC, the GH2 will make a damn fine B cam. I may even pick up one more since they're so useful. The cool thing is that the GH2 has a similar cadence to the BMC in regards to motion and will really cut nicely together. Best of both worlds.
                        I have both the hacked GH2 and 5D2 and I would not say one is better than the other. If I wanted a film look that would intercut with the BMC it would be the 5D2 rather than GH2 because of flesh tones and DR is so much better on the Canon.

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                        • Originally posted by Taikonaut View Post
                          I have both the hacked GH2 and 5D2 and I would not say one is better than the other. If I wanted a film look that would intercut with the BMC it would be the 5D2 rather than GH2 because of flesh tones and DR is so much better on the Canon.
                          Well, it's just my opinion. I actually sold my 5DII for the GH2. The reason being, was that with the right lens, the footage simply had a more of a cinematic look than what I was used up until that point. I always underestimated the GH2 because I didn't see what Pro's were doing with it. Once I saw some seriously skilled people put it to use... I couldn't believe it. It becomes another camera altogether if you're good at grading, know your lenses and apply the hack. You could say something similar of the 5D, but the GH2 has a much more volatile scale for the potential end-result of the footage.

                          With a 5D, no matter what lens you use, no matter what grading style is applied... it has this look that's inescapable. You can sense it's 5D material from a mile a way and there's no way around it. GH2 footage may start out sterile or "lacking" but the ability to transform it, and get the look you want, simply cannot be matched by any DSLR. It's like fresh play-doh, being much more pliable than some that's been used a few times before.
                          Test footage Vimeo page: https://vimeo.com/romanalaivi

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                          • It's all a matter of preference. Stating that the GH2 is better in every way is well, very fanboyish. I am not saying this to be offensive since there are certain things that I am also a fanboy of but when it comes to tools I use for work I can't afford to take the fanboy approach. I ddin't decide to keep the 5D because it's awesome or something. I kept because once you add all of the hacks filters etc, The 5D is less of a compromise than the GH2. So it is obvious to me that the GH2 has better resolution and less artifacts with the hack but it does nothing to improve it's color rendition, skin tone rendition, dynamic range, low light capability, high light capability and overall film like look in a significant way.
                            Also something that is hard to measure objectively is how well the 5D does in mixed light environments as opposed the GH2. In those regards the difference is as night and day in favor of the 5D just as the difference is night and day in favor of the GH2 when it comes to retaining fine details due to better resoluiton and less compression. Also there is a good work around on the 5D for moire and aliasing which is the VAF-5D2. There is no such equivalent filter that can be used for the GH2. All the filters that I have seen to used in conjunction with the GH2 soften the footage to the point that it negates it's resolution advantage. So aliasing and moire is another area where I much prefer the 5D Mark II. Specially when it comes to pepople's hair. The GH2 has more res to show off it's moire and aliasing issues. The VAF-5D2 filter isn't perfect but it helps mitigate the issues extremely well in most real world situations really quite a marvelous little filter. Wish they had one of these for the GH2. Might have kept it for shooting landscapes, city scapes, establishing shots etc,and other really wide shots where people may be at a distance or not in the shot at all and and skintones where not as big a deal.

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                            • Originally posted by Roman View Post
                              Well, it's just my opinion. I actually sold my 5DII for the GH2. The reason being, was that with the right lens, the footage simply had a more of a cinematic look than what I was used up until that point. I always underestimated the GH2 because I didn't see what Pro's were doing with it. Once I saw some seriously skilled people put it to use... I couldn't believe it. It becomes another camera altogether if you're good at grading, know your lenses and apply the hack. You could say something similar of the 5D, but the GH2 has a much more volatile scale for the potential end-result of the footage.

                              With a 5D, no matter what lens you use, no matter what grading style is applied... it has this look that's inescapable. You can sense it's 5D material from a mile a way and there's no way around it. GH2 footage may start out sterile or "lacking" but the ability to transform it, and get the look you want, simply cannot be matched by any DSLR. It's like fresh play-doh, being much more pliable than some that's been used a few times before.
                              I would love to see even one example of good accurate skin tones from the GH2 in a dynamic lighting situation. It's not possible! It can only be done with flat lighting so the limitation is huge. The camera is not capable of it so it doesn't matter how good the people lighting and shooting are if the tool can't do it. The Zacuto shoot shoot out is a clear example of this along with the thousands of videos on vimeo and youtube that only affirm my position. I am not claiming that the 5D has good skin tones but at least they are not as bad.

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                              • Not comparing a lowly 5D to a Hasselblad H4D-200MS but that camera also has a look that is inescapable and for that matter so does 15/70 Imax. Part of that inescapability is that larger than s35 sensor size. It's something that multiplication crop factors can only begin to describe. It's like the difference between looking out of a large floor to ceiling window and a small window that you have to step in close to get a similar angle of view. The exprience is not the same and since the 5D is one of the few cameras I know that shoots video on a larger than s35 size, of course it has an inescapable look. Grade wise there is no look that can be pulled of in GH2 that can't be pulled of in a 5D Mark II. The GH2 better blends in with other stuff in that it has very few tell tale qualities. Everything that plauges the GH2 plauges most other HDSLRs. The footage looks a lot more like traditional video than film and there are many ENG video cameras that out resolve the the GH2 so it doesn't stand out in that regard either. It doesn't have that one thing that stands out where the 5D does have something inescapable about it.

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