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First BMC Footage From John Brawley

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  • #31
    Originally posted by StarCoreFilms View Post
    Hi John. I was wondering. How is highlight handling of the BMCC compared to the Alexa and Red Epic/Scarlet? Does it perform more like the Alexa or the new Red cameras in that regard (excluding HDR mode)? In the test I saw I much preferred the Alexa's highlight handling of the translucent tile glass behind the subject compared to Red's. The Super 16mm was the the best, obviously but Alexa's was the closet to matching it easily.

    Also, will we see anymore footage before the release date? I'm very confused why we saw footage when it's in Beta stage at its announcement, but almost none since as the release date approaches. It's a bit unsettling.

    Thanks!

    There will be more test footage. There's a few things happening behind the scenes that preclude releasing test footage at the moment. I've certainly been shooting a lot with the camera. Most of it is footage that will never be seen because there are still things being worked on. BMD are very clear that they want to show footage that they think best reflects what the camera will be capable of.

    I've been mainly doing ProRes tests and they have been very very promising. The highlight handling straight out of the camera with ungraded files is gorgeous. Right now they're trying to reduce the noise and address other sensor related issues like dead pixels

    jb

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    • #32
      Noise is the key differentiator Among cameras, this is the first thing I Have heard from you that makes me even a little bit concerned.
      Last edited by Philip Lipetz; 06-23-2012, 05:12 AM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Philip Lipetz View Post
        Noise is the key differentiator Among cameras, this is the first thing. Have heard from you that Akers me even a little bit concerned.
        I have been saying since the beginning.

        This is not a low light camera.

        jb

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        • #34
          Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
          I have been saying since the beginning.

          This is not a low light camera.

          jb
          please, please, can you define what you mean by this is not a low light camera. give us an EV range for optimal and acceptable. What you now seem to be saying is that noise is an issue, so much that anything less than optimal light makes it go downhill very quickly.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
            I have been saying since the beginning.

            This is not a low light camera.

            jb
            When I saw jb's "Bondi" footage from 3:46 to 4:05, I though that the level of noise in this excerpt was because the sensor was/is still in calibration stage. Is the camera performing a better quality noise level at the moment than those footage or it will be by the time of shipping?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Willian Aleman View Post
              When I saw jb's "Bondi" footage from 3:46 to 4:05, I though that the level of noise in this excerpt was because the sensor was/is still in calibration stage. Is the camera performing a better quality noise level at the moment than those footage or it will be by the time of shipping?
              Chroma noise, like ugly old Canon cams. Neat Video is pretty good at clearing up chroma noise. Also the balance between luma and chroma noise is largely a matter of in camera processing. But Blackmagic's design philosophy was to rely on Resolve and skip the lengthy and costly process of in camera optimization. That is why things fall apart very quickly, because in this one respect it appears that Blackmagic has failed to deliver what are industry standards of optimization. This could explain why a very sensitive sensor cannot be pushed as much as the lower sensitivity sensors in other cameras. I hope that I am wrong and in the future people make fun of this post, but the footage and the constant warnings are raising red flags.
              Last edited by Philip Lipetz; 06-23-2012, 08:38 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Philip Lipetz View Post
                Chroma noise, like ugly old Canon cams. Neat Video is pretty good at clearing up chroma noise. Also the balance between luma and chroma noise is largely a matter of in camera processing. But Blackmagic's design philosophy was to rely on Resolve and skip the length and costly process of in camera optimization. That is why things fall apart very quickly, because is this one respect it appears that Blackmagic has failed to deliver what are industry standards of optimization. this could explain why a very sensitive sensor cannot be pushed as much as the lower sensitivity sensors in other cameras. I hope that I am wrong and in the future people make fun of this post, but the footage and the constant warnings are raising red flags.
                BTW, I still remember my old Canon G2, at the time the leading digital camera from Canon, and its similarly ugly chroma noise at ISO 400. Yet, there was a quality to the G2 and I have published low light G2 shots in several books despite the technical imperfections. The G2 Canon maintained luma detail and let the chroma go. It seems there is a tradeoff, choose one to reduce. At least in the early days of digital that was the case. My experience with video is that my eyes first focus on luma detail and tend to ignore transitory chroma noise.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by John Brawley View Post
                  I have been saying since the beginning.

                  This is not a low light camera.

                  jb
                  thanks for posting this. It confirms what I suspected. Still looking forward for samples that can be tested with different denoising methods.

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                  • #39
                    What is low light? f/1.4 at 800 ISO? f/2.8 at 1600 ISO? Next week is the last week in June... ;-)

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mhood View Post
                      What is low light? f/1.4 at 800 ISO? f/2.8 at 1600 ISO? Next week is the last week in June... ;-)
                      Please just define the EV limits of this camera. it is very simple, and will tell us everything. You can even give it as far as a clean signal out of the camera and a lower EV that can be cleaned up in post.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Philip Lipetz View Post
                        because is this one respect it appears that Blackmagic has failed to deliver what are industry standards of optimization.
                        How can we even "apparently" suggest that Blackmagic has failed to delivery what are industry standard of optimization when the camera is still in production stage? Isn't this a precipitated assumption? At least Blackmagic deserves the chance to send the camera out before we come out with statements that appears more like confirmations than assumptions.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Willian Aleman View Post
                          How can we even "apparently" suggest that Blackmagic has failed to delivery what are industry standard of optimization when the camera is still in production stage? Isn't this a precipitated assumption? At least Blackmagic deserves the chance to send the camera out before we come out with statements that appears more like confirmations than assumptions.
                          Because John Brawley does not pass up an opportunity to warn us that this is not a low light camera. He has said it many many times. Repeated questions about low light, higher ISO, and noise are met with a repeat of the statement that this is not a low light camera, but no technical details. Even though it has good low light DR the samples certainly have chroma noise that reminds me of digital cameras of more than a decade ago. When we ask if there has been progress in low light John repeats that this is not a low light camera. I would love to be wrong, give me clean 1600 ISO shadows and I will happily shout "I was wrong" as a i shoot interiors.
                          Last edited by Philip Lipetz; 06-23-2012, 08:33 AM.

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                          • #43
                            You know, every morning I get up and check this forum hoping to find the URL to some files recorded by the BMC. I think it is only fair to allow pixel peeping and quantitative independent testing to happen before shipping. I want/need Bloom and Green to get their cameras and tell me what to expect. Next week is the last week in June and my BMC is supposed to ship in July. Are they really still working on dead pixels?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by mhood View Post
                              You know, every morning I get up and check this forum hoping to find the URL to some files recorded by the BMC. I think it is only fair to allow pixel peeping and quantitative independent testing to happen before shipping. I want/need Bloom and Green to get their cameras and tell me what to expect. Next week is the last week in June and my BMC is supposed to ship in July. Are they really still working on dead pixels?
                              Blackmagic sent an email promising samples this coming week. Those sample should include low light, and clearly state what this camera can and cannot do. No one expects it to do everything, but we deserve a clear explanation of limits. And that explanation should include what is meant by saying this is not a low light camera. What is low light. In the first days of Hollywood low light was anything less than blindingly bright lights. What is it to this cinema camera?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Philip Lipetz View Post
                                Because John Brawley does not pass up an opportunity to warn us that this is not a low light camera. I would love to be wrong, give me clean 1600 ISO shadows and I will happily shout "I was wrong" as a i shoot interiors.
                                Thanks for your response. Then, I too would like you to be wrong.

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