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First BMC Footage From John Brawley

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  • #91
    Originally posted by adam777 View Post
    The BMCC was designed to shoot raw. We already have footage of that and it works well Anything else such as prores is just icing on the cake.
    Which forum thread do you come from, Adam?

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    • #92
      The anguish that precipatated this emotional thread comes from trying to hold two contradictory statements - ISO 1600 and this is not a low light camera. While ISO 1600 is not extreme it is still low light so the only way to reconcile these statements is to infer that there is some problem, such as noise, with the ISO 1600. But noise questions are met with the technically correct statement that noise is subjective. That increases frustration even more, especially when all cameras but RED had more thorough previews.

      John is a feature film DP of with great talent and experience and so he lives more in world of subjective values and that makes him frustrated by requests to make statements from a different viewpoint, that of pixel peeking beyond what he would do within his professional context.

      So. John's frustration and worried potential buyers' frustration form a positive feedback loop of ever increasing intensity. A Perfect Storm.

      What is needed is not blame or calling people on either side names, but the realization that everyone has good intentions and not everyone is as patient as Dan May was at the BM shows where he answered the same questions a hundred times a day.

      I respect John professionally, I am thankful for his posts, but that does not mean that the essential questions have been answered. There has to be some place for people to engage in exploration; if all we do is blindly accept and purchase equipment then there is no role for forums such as this.

      Comment


      • #93
        Philip, we were told earlier that we have to wait a week or so for the real samples. Why don't we just put some embargo on this topic for a while?
        Last edited by rommex; 06-24-2012, 04:46 AM.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by rommex View Post
          Philip, we were told earlier that we have to wait a week or so for the real samples. Why don't we just put some embargo on this topic for a while?

          PS and maybe delete a duplicate? )
          I agree that we should wait a week for the BMCC samples to lift the discussion. What I was attempting to do was to defuse a situation that has resulted in unfortunate personal statements, both explicit and implied, causing many people pain.

          Duplicate deleted, sorry.

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          • #95
            Did I imagine a BMD commitment to get several prototypes in the hands of a few "prominent bloggers"? I'm really interested in BMC evaluations from the "step up from the DSLR you've been using" perspective as opposed to the "put down your Alexas and Reds and go slumming" point of view. :-)

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            • #96
              Originally posted by mattbatt View Post
              From a business end, the client has a right to be frustrated, demanding and pushy - especially if money is involved - whereas the business does not. A business goes by the model, "The customer is always right" knowing full well, that is not always true BUT they do serve the customer and do their best to provide the customer's needs.

              That said, I still stand behind my statements that a business is here to serve and cater to PAYING clients/customers no matter how agitated and demanding. If you can't handle that, don't go into business!

              I have to disagree as well. Working in the creative field you know as well that the customer most of the times doesn't even know what's right for him/her. While it's true that the customer always has the right to be demanding and pushy, there's also a line that you shouldn't allow people to cross because that's the line where it starts to get painful for you and it's a legitimate choice to either swallow it or end it. But that's mainly for services.


              As for BMC. This forums isn't an official BMD forum as far as I can tell. John is here because he chose to. The camera has been announced, not released, and if you preordered a camera that you feel you know too little about, then that was your free choice and 'risk' and you knew you would have to wait.

              BMD doesn't owe you answers at this stage. John doesn't owe you answers.

              So thanks for pissing him off and I'm not saying this because he was our only 'source for information and footage' but because he came here to help answer some of your questions and I'm sure he had better things to do at times.


              EDIT: Matt, 2nd part of this post is not reffered to you of course, hope noone got that wrong!!
              Last edited by stip; 06-24-2012, 06:54 AM.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by stip View Post
                I have to disagree as well. Working in the creative field you know as well that the customer most of the times doesn't even know what's right for him/her. While it's true that the customer always has the right to be demanding and pushy, there's also a line that you shouldn't allow people to cross because that's the line where it starts to get painful for you and it's a legitimate choice to either swallow it or end it. But that's mainly for services.


                As for BMC. This forums isn't an official BMD forum as far as I can tell. John is here because he chose to. The camera has been announced, not released, and if you preordered a camera that you feel you know too little about, then that was your free choice and 'risk' and you knew you would have to wait.

                BMD doesn't owe you answers at this stage. John doesn't owe you answers.

                So thanks for pissing him off and I'm not saying this because he was our only 'source for information and footage' but because he came here to help answer some of your questions and I'm sure he had better things to do at times.
                +10,000,000,000

                Thank you, Stip!

                This is just going to get worse. The only thing that will happen when the evaluation footage hits will be a deluge of frenzied whining and complaining about a bunch of garbage from people who haven't even anted up.

                Mark my words, footage will not help the situation, it will only fuel the naysayers who are just doing a pee-pee dance of excitement over tearing down this system because they have gone as far as they can with out something to reference.

                We have endured the lens mount complaints.
                We have endured the codec complaints.
                We have endured the mac centric complaints.
                We have endured the connections on the wrong side complaints.
                We have endured the dead pixels in the alpha version camera complaints.

                What makes anyone think that the footage will add any more than, "wow that looks great; money well spent," or "wow that doesn't look good at all; money pulled back?"

                Anytime you have something like this being said:

                John is a feature film DP of with great talent and experience and so he lives more in world of subjective values and that makes him frustrated by requests to make statements from a different viewpoint, that of pixel peeking beyond what he would do within his professional context.
                It truly speaks volumes about what is really being looked at by a community. We have an experienced and talented professional who is giving his professional opinion for free to all of us and we value pixel peeping more than his view?

                Insanity.

                I respect John professionally, I am thankful for his posts, but that does not mean that the essential questions have been answered. There has to be some place for people to engage in exploration; if all we do is blindly accept and purchase equipment then there is no role for forums such as this.
                Since when was John the person to answer these questions? Stip said it best: He owes you no answers. BMD has given a timeline for answers. Wait.

                Did I imagine a BMD commitment to get several prototypes in the hands of a few "prominent bloggers"? I'm really interested in BMC evaluations from the "step up from the DSLR you've been using" perspective as opposed to the "put down your Alexas and Reds and go slumming" point of view.
                Wow. If you need help moving to a Raw camera with more latitude, superior codecs, and higher resolution for less than the DSLRs, then you don't really want to buy a BMC, you really, honestly want to buy a DSLR, for what ever reason, and need justification to buy something else, or someone else to blame when you do, and should wait for your confirmation so you feel comfortable with the decision.

                Call a spade a spade people.

                I'm not insulting anybody. I'm just stating facts. This camera was built for me! This community launched on my 33 birthday! I am in the top 10 where I pre-ordered. I am buying new lenses because I am a m4/3 user and I need to adjust my lens investment. I am buying new rigs for this camera. I am buying a Mac, even though I hate them and love my PC, because it (the BMC) integrates more efficiently. I am at 100% buy-in. I am a professional and educated both technically and aesthetically, but I am also an adult who can make a decision for myself and not wait for the internet to provide me a scapegoat or justification for not taking a risk. It's my money, my choice.
                If you are unwilling to buy in 100%, wait for the people who are to give you honest assessments about the camera.
                But no one can right now because no one has the final camera.

                I am with Rommex. I vote for tabling this discussion, but I vote for tabling it until December.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by pharpsied View Post
                  OMG!

                  Why do you guys do this every damn time?

                  You know nothing about anything and run off the people who do!

                  Who the F*CK is going to shoot in the dark anyway?

                  There are some people who are learning and who are waiting until the camera comes to make judgements. Please don't leave those people in the dust, John. We have been helped by your comments and posts. I myself have tried to stay in the off topic section because I don't have the camera so there is nothing more to talk about really. I have been blessed by your posts and don't want them to cease for the anal retentiveness of a few! For Christs sake, STFU and wait, guys. And don't act superior with pseudo-intellectual bravado when you offend someone who is clearly helping this community.

                  Oh, and you can direct any comments towards me to the proverbial brick wall. I don't care if I get banned; I just can't lose a resource like John Brawley.
                  +1 John said enough to make me order a BMC a year before we planned to upgrade. To echo the quoted post Nobody really films in the dark (other then astronomers). John posted footage that was good enough to make most us place an order months ago...if its still as good as that then I'm happy! I kind of like the wait....it's like being a kid again!
                  New Ursa Mini 4.6 owner

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Phil View Post
                    +1 John said enough to make me order a BMC a year before we planned to upgrade. To echo the quoted post Nobody really films in the dark (other then astronomers). John posted footage that was good enough to make most us place an order months ago...if its still as good as that then I'm happy! I kind of like the wait....it's like being a kid again!
                    +1

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by pharpsied View Post
                      Call a spade a spade people.
                      That's not always a polite thing to do. Some folks are offended by words like "Homer", "fanboy" and "cult of personality". The fact that I've pre-ordered (in the top ten at Omega and hope to get my BMC on my birthday) in no way precludes genuine interest in independent professional evaluations. Isn't that centric to the forum? Why in the world would that threaten you?

                      Comment


                      • hey, there will always be the negative nancys who always just complain and complain and i've done my share of ranting about their horrid mentality and even tried to reason with them like we've all done. heck i've made videos to debunk them with facts, but that still doesn't deter many of them. prime example, the comments of my af100 vs dslrs rant/review http://youtu.be/fNpFJcErmxI

                        what would i do to deter them in forums? like how some forums are coming out with reputation points, i think it should be the opposite: troll points! is this person trolling? point em! and if they incur too many points they have a posting limit activated on their account so as to limit their trolling
                        Darren Levine

                        he shoots, he edits, he frequently rants
                        http://mediahalo.com/p/dlevine

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                        • Originally posted by rommex View Post
                          Which forum thread do you come from, Adam?
                          Hi Rommex

                          The title of this thread is "First BMC Footage From John Brawley" and I am happy with this footage, as well as the Leah footage on a separate thread. I don't need new footage as I am happy to deal with the raw workflow. New features and footage are exciting but I am satisfied with what I've seen.

                          If everyone wants to discuss waiting for new and different footage it should be on a separate thread with a different title, maybe titled "waiting for footage" but not on this thread.

                          Also no one is being forced to buy this camera ... there's always many other options such as the fs100/700, 5d mkiii, etc available ... and wishing for a camera and possible features to come into existence won't achieve anything. Like most of us I too waited for the Scarlet for 3 or so years ... and yes this too can be discussed on a separate thread.
                          Last edited by adam777; 06-24-2012, 07:20 AM.

                          Comment


                          • this thread has gotten way off topic. let's bring it back around to its purpose, and take this side discussion over to off-topic.

                            Everyone just needs to have a little patience. All in due time.

                            Thanks...
                            www.bmcuser.com
                            A Landmine Media "User" Community
                            The online resource for the Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by stip View Post
                              I have to disagree as well. Working in the creative field you know as well that the customer most of the times doesn't even know what's right for him/her. While it's true that the customer always has the right to be demanding and pushy, there's also a line that you shouldn't allow people to cross because that's the line where it starts to get painful for you and it's a legitimate choice to either swallow it or end it. But that's mainly for services.


                              As for BMC. This forums isn't an official BMD forum as far as I can tell. John is here because he chose to. The camera has been announced, not released, and if you preordered a camera that you feel you know too little about, then that was your free choice and 'risk' and you knew you would have to wait.

                              BMD doesn't owe you answers at this stage. John doesn't owe you answers.

                              So thanks for pissing him off and I'm not saying this because he was our only 'source for information and footage' but because he came here to help answer some of your questions and I'm sure he had better things to do at times.


                              EDIT: Matt, 2nd part of this post is not reffered to you of course, hope noone got that wrong!!
                              I see your point and I certainly know, as a web developer, that clients sometimes get so out-of-control it is best to cut one's losses. But let us remember one thing: BMD is not a record company or small business or freelance design business nor should it follow those business models. It is a larger business/corporation and should cater on a non-personal, overreaching arch displaying updated info, fast fixes in firmware, good product support and expedient help to those who have preordered. I'm sure they will do a great job.

                              Let us also remember that those with frustration venting have $3,000 tied up in this yet-to-be-released product. I'd say they have a right to get a bit ancy.

                              To get back on target, I work with RAW stills all day long form the Canon 5dmkII when doing weddings and corporate photography. It is "noisy" all day long too, from 100iso on up, depending on how you expose, what you do with shadows, ect. 1600 definitely has grain that is very noticeable - for me, it helps define my image and keeps it from getting a plastic sheen look.

                              RAW is another beast and that is why Lightroom 4 and other editing apps have luma, chroma NR that are fully customizable, and yes, I use them. In fact, chroma is on as a standard setting from Adobe - if I turn it off, color noise is aweful on the 5dmkII. But Adobe knows RAW image files better than any of us and built a superb program to handle it just fine. Also, the RAW's coming off the 5dmkII always need sharpening. I like having the ability to sharpen, NR, expose and grade my way, that is what RAW is for.

                              If you want an image that is pristine off the sensor, have the camera do in-camera processing and bake it all in - but that is the exact opposite of a RAW workflow.

                              I am fully confident that Resolve 9 will meet my needs of properly dealing with the RAW image. That is why I pre-ordered.

                              Comment


                              • we'll start a new thread when there is more footage out. This thread has gone off the reservation.
                                www.bmcuser.com
                                A Landmine Media "User" Community
                                The online resource for the Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera

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