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Peter Culley
08-25-2012, 08:03 PM
I come from a two decade design and advertising background with a few years studio photography for education. Leaving college, the first mono screen macs appeared so I have seen the digital age from near the beginning.

With that of course came the tidal wave of desk top publishing destruction of so much 'craft' and meaningful ad material (if there is such a thing in some minds;)

SO.... I'd be interested to hear opinions on faux pas or techniques in film making that make you cringe... puke... want to hang draw and quarter etc... I realise what is one persons poison is anothers delight but I'd like to calibrate my own instincts in the field of moving images.

randyman
08-25-2012, 08:17 PM
Frankly, an utterly slavish pursuit of a micro-thin depth of field, at the expense of getting an actual good look at a subject has become a cliché.

One aspiring art director continually vetoed my efforts to use a tripod, insisting holding a bare 7D in my hands looked "natural." I had to point out that the human eye tracks whatever it has focused on, leaving no perception of judder or shakeycam motion.

Screw fashion; just responding to your question (no fault of your own) raises my bile. Learn from the storytelling techniques of the masters, incorporate their knowledge, and invent your own techniques for telling your stories - but always use them in service of the story, and not for their own sake.

Paul Stephen Edwards
08-25-2012, 08:28 PM
I don't know if this qualifies, but I've noticed a big uptick in 3rd act music videos (esp. in TV). I'm talking about a short segment near the end of the story in which a song plays over a montage of the disparate cast members doing meaningful things. It's usually a way to bring the story threads together in an emotionally satisfying manner. In the right hands, it's very effective (the "Mad World" end of Donnie Darko jumps to mind) but I think that it's starting to wear out its welcome with me.

Peter Culley
08-25-2012, 08:34 PM
Appreciate your thoughts! The shallow depth of field thing has instinctively bugged me and made me think desktop publishing all over again... Wobbly cam! Yep... Only time I want to see wobbly cam is in journalism on the run...

You have bought me right back to my servitude working for a Mr Bernie Van Elsen here in Adelaide... A dutch trained stills master who like you had the eye for the story and would accept no 'fairy dust' in his studio...



Frankly, an utterly slavish pursuit of a micro-thin depth of field, at the expense of getting an actual good look at a subject has become a cliché.

One aspiring art director continually vetoed my efforts to use a tripod, insisting holding a bare 7D in my hands looked "natural." I had to point out that the human eye tracks whatever it has focused on, leaving no perception of judder or shakeycam motion.

Screw fashion; just responding to your question (no fault of your own) raises my bile. Learn from the storytelling techniques of the masters, incorporate their knowledge, and invent your own techniques for telling your stories - but always use them in service of the story, and not for their own sake.

Peter Culley
08-25-2012, 08:41 PM
Paul... Yep I am agreeing with that one... Flippant of me to say as I have no track record (no pun) in producing any music videos of note BUT the gems stand out like the dogs bollocks. So many look like they have all come out of the same preset filter box and so easily forgotten. All about the moment, the cash... the momentary cheese wizz in a can. How many videos actually add to the music or story?


I don't know if this qualifies, but I've noticed a big uptick in 3rd act music videos (esp. in TV). I'm talking about a short segment near the end of the story in which a song plays over a montage of the disparate cast members doing meaningful things. It's usually a way to bring the story threads together in an emotionally satisfying manner. In the right hands, it's very effective (the "Mad World" end of Donnie Darko jumps to mind) but I think that it's starting to wear out its welcome with me.

RyGuy
08-25-2012, 08:41 PM
Not all of these are "cliches", but still manage to rub me the wrong way:

Unrelenting extreme close-ups with narrow DoF with no real motivation. (It's easy to make a close-up look good with shallow DoF)
Twist at the end where it was... All a dream. (easy out of stupid premise/abstract storyline)
Suicide at the end via gun that ironically was the cause of protagonist's pain (read: deceased child, wife/gf, etc... again the easy way out)
Excessive 1st person narroration (lazy)
Purple (or any color) blacks (screams magic bullet presets)
Five minutes of protagonist walking around before anything happens (you lost me 4 minutes and 45 seconds ago)
Slasher films.
Hand held shots with a 70-200 @f2.8 and four cups of coffee. (Not just an amateur thing... watch Hunger Games)

I'm sure I'll add to this, but these are off the top of my head.

Peter Culley
08-25-2012, 09:16 PM
Oh man you made me spill my coffee... I had the misfortune to waste an hour or so of my life watching the Hunger Games last night... Can I please have that time back?????

Your list puts 50% of current films in the sin bin;)

On a serious note, all this is sharpening my check list...


Not all of these are "cliches", but still manage to rub me the wrong way:

Unrelenting extreme close-ups with narrow DoF with no real motivation. (It's easy to make a close-up look good with shallow DoF)
Twist at the end where it was... All a dream. (easy out of stupid premise/abstract storyline)
Suicide at the end via gun that ironically was the cause of protagonist's pain (read: deceased child, wife/gf, etc... again the easy way out)
Excessive 1st person narroration (lazy)
Purple (or any color) blacks (screams magic bullet presets)
Five minutes of protagonist walking around before anything happens (you lost me 4 minutes and 45 seconds ago)
Slasher films.
Hand held shots with a 70-200 @f2.8 and four cups of coffee. (Not just an amateur thing... watch Hunger Games)

I'm sure I'll add to this, but these are off the top of my head.

Jason M.
08-25-2012, 09:23 PM
If we're talking about cinematography cliches, the one that drives me up the wall is unmotivated lights at night. Like when a man is walking through a forest at night, and it's obvious that there's an HMI edge lighting the hill behind him, not even trying to pass it off as moonlight. I don't generally have anything against stylized lighting schemes, but this one drives me crazy for some reason.

zwarte_kat
08-25-2012, 09:37 PM
Dark stuff mostly:

-David Lynch style student/amateur shorts, have been guilty of them a long time ago BTW.
-To much action-sci-fi, without fitting production value.
-Violence is wrong movies, that glorify violence.
-(Wannabe) gangster movies. I guess Tarantino has been guilty of causing that.

I do like an uncomplicated slasher though, from time to time.

I wish more students/amateurs would focus on human interaction, or even love stories. Guess I am becoming old...

Grug
08-25-2012, 09:46 PM
- Jason Bourne-style ridiculous fast cuts (both Bourne 2 & 3 gave me literal headaches watching them).
- Failing to establish the 'geography' of a scene (lack of establishing/location shots, lack of cohesion is showing movement through a space)

Peter Culley
08-25-2012, 09:50 PM
I'm loving the sensitive intro and then you like an uncomplicated slasher! That is gold!

Your last statement struck a chord with me and my observation is the gratification of the video game age and sfx overload has muted the patience of a generation or two to be involved in something lasting and precious. I'll embarrass myself now... Most memorable childhood filmic moment? Jason and the Argonauts with the minotaur and To Kill a Mockingbird... Just saying the title still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up...

My .02 worth...


Dark stuff mostly:

-David Lynch style student/amateur shorts, have been guilty of them a long time ago BTW.
-To much action-sci-fi, without fitting production value.
-Violence is wrong movies, that glorify violence.
-(Wannabe) gangster movies. I guess Tarantino has been guilty of causing that.

I do like an uncomplicated slasher though, from time to time.

I wish more students/amateurs would focus on human interaction, or even love stories. Guess I am becoming old...

Paul Stephen Edwards
08-25-2012, 09:56 PM
Jason and the Argonauts with the minotaur and To Kill a Mockingbird... Just saying the title still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up...

My .02 worth...

Ray Harryhausen has that effect on lots of us. :) And yeah, Boo Radley gets me every time.

randyman
08-25-2012, 10:02 PM
Did you know that before Liam Neeson was cast as the voice of Aslan in the recent series of Narnia films, the animators used Gregory Peck's Atticus Finch as their reference for Aslan's demeanor?

Or that Atticus is #1 in the American Film Institute's compilation of greatest cinematic heroes?

http://www.filmsite.org/afi100heroesvilla.html

Sorry for the OT... I couldn't resist.

Joe Giambrone
08-25-2012, 10:09 PM
There are an endless amount of ways to screw it up. I know I'll think of more later...

1. I dislike shallow depth, especially on faces. The moment a part of the face drifts in and out of focus it's a mistake in my view. A screw up, a bad decision by someone who should be spanked. Real movies used to never do that sort of thing. And they considered it a problem, for the most part, to be avoided. Nowadays, it's all the kids do. Thanks, DSLRs.

2. Worse than that are the amateurish blown-out windows you see now EVERYWHERE! God I so hate that, and yet it pops up more and more now that no one shoots film anymore or cares much about image quality. The moment I see a blasted out window I devalue your project a good 25% -- unless it's a documentary.

3. Little-dick teenage white boys playing with guns. War is fun. Torture is fun.

4. Handheld.

5. Overlighting.

6. Underlighting, usually with yellow regular incandescents and lots of puke yellow noise.

7. Commercials. Gave up TV 12 years ago to get away from them. Now they've infested the internet. They need to be blocked, permanently.

8. Kids with gigantic 3d digital After Effect introductions heralding their production company name, immediately followed by all that other stuff above.

John Brawley
08-25-2012, 10:38 PM
Dolly Zooms (we've all done them)

DOF so shallow only one eye is in focus

Tripod operating that's more lumpy than hand held.

Staging that says you didn't even think about where the actors were standing, you just filmed them where they stood....

jb

RyGuy
08-25-2012, 10:42 PM
If we're talking about cinematography cliches, the one that drives me up the wall is unmotivated lights at night. Like when a man is walking through a forest at night, and it's obvious that there's an HMI edge lighting the hill behind him, not even trying to pass it off as moonlight. I don't generally have anything against stylized lighting schemes, but this one drives me crazy for some reason.

What? You don't have a 5k spotlight following you around at night? Weird, you must be the only one ;)

Just thought of another not so noticeable, but still makes me say, "Really???": unneeded close-ups of random objects or actions that add NOTHING to the story. For example: mid-shot - guy is drinking morning coffee; extreme close-up - puts coffee down; wide - walks away; never has anything to do with the coffee cup.

Gwangjuboy
08-25-2012, 10:56 PM
It's not not much these days but whenever someone said indie movie short it usually involved someone being tied up in a warehouse about to be tortured or everyone pointing guns at each other, yes Tarantino created a monster. These days you hear indie you know it's going to have a whimsical guitar soundtrack and be about, well not much really. Some of them are good ie Little Miss Sunshine, Garden State etc but most have no purpose, Alexander Payne is the king of them.


A small one, when usually film grads put shorts together they show every god damn shot, like the hand on the door handle, someone walking out of a building etc, 10 shots when they could of used 1.

If you want a master class in movie cliques you better watch 'The Room' I would say its as essential movie making watching as what not to do. I can't watch some scenes without laughing my ass off.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ4KzClb1C4

nickjbedford
08-25-2012, 11:03 PM
Duo toning (and by extension, hideous skin tones).

BIG SWEEPING MOVEMENTS for EVERY shot (even stationary placid dialogue). Unstoppable (2010) is one example.

Not a cliche per sé, but when some big actors appear in a movie and the subject lighting is amateur hour.

RyGuy
08-25-2012, 11:11 PM
Not a cliche per sé, but when some big actors appear in a movie and the subject lighting is amateur hour.

Watch Journey to the Center of the Earth 2008. Pretty bad stuff.

mhood
08-25-2012, 11:11 PM
Crushed blacks, blown out whites and whispers so soft nobody can hear them.

rawCAM35
08-25-2012, 11:58 PM
Zooming in and out
I wish that the Zoom lens was never invented, it is OK if it is used as a set of primes but not as a zoom, watching again those old B&W movies made before 1950 and see how they managed to accomplish a more natural and realistic zoom effect by their camera to character blocking and the creative use of the dolly that Leeds to a more natural closeup or a wide shot.

Joe Giambrone
08-26-2012, 01:17 AM
"A small one, when usually film grads put shorts together they show every god damn shot, like the hand on the door handle, someone walking out of a building etc, 10 shots when they could of used 1."

That is a style choice that is VERY applicable to some projects, as in Requiem for a Dream and Spun. They're both drug movies, but very well done, very experiential.

Peter Culley
08-26-2012, 01:54 AM
The responses here have made my Sunday afternoon... I shall now go put on my Noel Coward smoking jacket and reflect on ... How the hell am I going to produce something worthy?

So my career in wannabe gangsta, fast and the clueless... is done before it begun... :(

All joking aside this has been a reminder to really think about the essence right back to the storyboard... A gold frosted turd always stinks... Maybe a tshirt in that?

Frank Glencairn
08-26-2012, 03:49 AM
Vertigo effect.
Dream sequences
Waking up as beginning: A film that starts with a closeup of a ringing alarm clock and rack focuses to a person waking up in bed.
Waking up as end: Oh this was only a dream - go figure.
Timelapse montage
Synthesizer (the “porn” soundtrack)
“Fishbowl in the foreground” shot
“Overhead for no reason ‘cept we’re shooting with a crane” shot
Camera inside the fridge
unmotivated dutch angle (unless you shoot a spooky house on the hill).

Frank

nickjbedford
08-26-2012, 04:18 AM
I happen to like the camera in the fridge shot :p

Brandon
08-26-2012, 04:45 AM
The 'Waking up in the morning' sequence included in every student film
The wrong color of moonlight
Low contrast alexa footage
Blown out red footage
Bad lighting in obvious multicam scenes
Telephoto coverage on EVERYTHING
Overly stylized grades
Fake anamorphic flares
Dolly shots on uneven ground
Wobbly Steadicam
Focusing in and out on purpose (Act of Valor)

Peter Culley
08-26-2012, 05:04 AM
Bloody hell guys! There goes the rest of the storyboards,,, I like the synthesiser in pron films... Did i just say that?

Tim Hole
08-26-2012, 05:11 AM
Teal colour palette a la Michael Bay.
Shallow DOF is the big one. Not only is it lazy and completely non-story driven but the actors barely ever stay in focus for more than a few seconds at a time.
Self harm and chopping off hair in the mirror.
Excessive POV shots — depends how it's being used.
Mocumentary
Hunting focus and ENG style, snap zooms.
Invading a characters personal space before we have reached that point in the character/audience relationship.
Hosing the scene. Shooting everything from every angle and directing in post.
Hip-Hop montage.
Crossing the line.
Camera acrobatics.
Not repositioning camera for close-up (just zooming in a bit)
Tilt-shift video is getting there
Digital lens flares (especially anamorphic)

Frank has mentioned the important ones a newbie should be aware of.

There are a lot of examples mentioned above are things that can be used if it truly serves the story.

I'm not quite sure what one poster meant by David Lynch style student shorts...are we now saying people shouldn't make experimental and counterstyle films? When an entire film school module is dedicated to this and it is a valid form of storytelling. It is also important for a student filmmaker to learn how to extrapolate the emotional landscape of the characters, to present the story visually. Maybe I misunderstood the point. Or people shouldn't make Sci-Fi films if they havent got a budget? young filmmakers have been making no budget action movies for decades...the only difference now is that After Effects and Videocopilot are their new best friends, and a lot of big budget movies are misrepresenting Sci-Fi. Young wannabes obviously mimic. I don't think people experimenting is a bad thing. The Internet is full of junk we know this but there are so many wannabe filmmakers out there. I know that it can be grinding that there is so much of the same kind of crap out there but we have to get used to it. It's a relatively new landscape we are in now, with a new way to get films shown, material which would normally not have escaped a screening in someone's living room 15 years ago, is now available to the world. So we have a saturated market, and the decent work is in danger of getting buried. So now all those Lucas/Spielberg wannabes are now Michael Bay/JJ Abbrams/Tarantino wannabes and we get it dumped on our heads.

nihilessence
08-26-2012, 05:49 AM
I'm going to have to be the individualist here and say that you need to personally make your film, and avoiding a shopping list of cliches may well create a kind of anti-matter cliche. Your work will have cliche. Even the most original works do. To me a cliche is a misnomer anyway - at least in the sense it is interpreted on this thread. The real problem is when a film is a composite of cliches - not just one or two; it's when the film is void of personality or point of view. That's when you see that the cliche is wearing the creator, not the other way around as it should be.

The biggest 'cliche' I am aware of is the ignorance of craft, i.e. you can identify the one area of filmmaking the creator has obsessed over. Of course this is almost always picture. To avoid this cliche, study your favorite film and catalogue all the aspects of it that affected you. You should be surprised at how little is picture related. George Lucas has said that movies are 65% sound.

stip
08-26-2012, 07:20 AM
Not all of these are "cliches", but still manage to rub me the wrong way:

Unrelenting extreme close-ups with narrow DoF with no real motivation. (It's easy to make a close-up look good with shallow DoF)
Twist at the end where it was... All a dream. (easy out of stupid premise/abstract storyline)
Suicide at the end via gun that ironically was the cause of protagonist's pain (read: deceased child, wife/gf, etc... again the easy way out)
Excessive 1st person narroration (lazy)
Purple (or any color) blacks (screams magic bullet presets)
Five minutes of protagonist walking around before anything happens (you lost me 4 minutes and 45 seconds ago)
Slasher films.
Hand held shots with a 70-200 @f2.8 and four cups of coffee. (Not just an amateur thing... watch Hunger Games)

I'm sure I'll add to this, but these are off the top of my head.

Great list, +1 on all

EDIT: WHAT THE.... my plastic lighter just exploded in my pocket?????!!!

vealti
08-26-2012, 10:44 AM
Some of these lists are hitting close to home! Come on, the alarm clock in the morning isn't a cliche, it's a classic. Here's some on my current list.

Blown out windows
Not using a tripod
Purposely shaky camera work, zooming in and out, and out-of-focus shots (Although I did enjoy Sci-Fi's version of Battlestar Galactica, go figure.)
On camera talent that only shows extreme closeup parts of their face on the edges of the screen
The hero that is being totally trashed and then at the last moment suddenly gets a burst of energy and skill and now no one can touch him. Usually accompanied by a lot of screaming and the word "Nooooooo!"

Paul Stephen Edwards
08-26-2012, 11:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoPSV4ua94

This one.

ubuntujackie
08-26-2012, 12:39 PM
Low contrast alexa footage
Overly stylized grades
Fake anamorphic flares

I really do not like the new Samsung commercials where it's practically LogC. At least give it a proper grade!
And music videos have way too many anamorphic flares these days. A good example would be Domino by Jessie J.

robmneilson
08-26-2012, 12:40 PM
This is a great list, although blown out windows don't bother me if it's a deliberate choice, like in Kubrick films.

My personal pet peeve is an extended opening credit sequence in a SHORT FILM. You don't need two and a half minutes of credits in an eight minute film!!!!

Andrew
08-26-2012, 03:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoPSV4ua94

This one.

Does that video really go on like that for 8 minutes!?

Paul Stephen Edwards
08-26-2012, 04:05 PM
Does that video really go on like that for 8 minutes!?

It's a highly overused phrase.

vealti
08-26-2012, 04:50 PM
This is a great list, although blown out windows don't bother me if it's a deliberate choice, like in Kubrick films.

My personal pet peeve is an extended opening credit sequence in a SHORT FILM. You don't need two and a half minutes of credits in an eight minute film!!!!

I should say just overexposed scenes without a purpose. Like windows, white shirts, bald heads, skies, etc.

CineMac
08-26-2012, 04:57 PM
Here's mine: An overly dramatic and manipulative soundtrack that tells you how to feel.

Tim Hole
08-26-2012, 05:31 PM
It's a highly overused phrase.

Just like 'Lets get out here'...

There's a video for that too...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taZwviU0sy0

randyman
08-26-2012, 05:43 PM
I've got a bad feeling about this...

Tim Hole
08-26-2012, 05:49 PM
I've got a bad feeling about this...

hahah

Add to that 'You look like shit'...

randyman
08-26-2012, 05:56 PM
hahah

Add to that 'You look like shit'...

It ain't the years, it's the mileage...

RyGuy
08-26-2012, 06:04 PM
I present to you the Wilhelm Scream:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf8aBFTVNEU

Fluoro
08-26-2012, 06:35 PM
EDIT: WHAT THE.... my plastic lighter just exploded in my pocket?????!!!

Can't say I know that cliche... Maybe it will catch on?

Peter Culley
08-26-2012, 06:57 PM
Paul... You just made Monday a whole lot more bearable! I just about wet myself...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzoPSV4ua94

This one.

Peter Culley
08-26-2012, 07:00 PM
Oh man.... I am going to do this all day... Is this related to the Australian kookaburra in all Tarzan movies? I have a new ringtone! Just 24K gold!


I present to you the Wilhelm Scream:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf8aBFTVNEU

RyGuy
08-26-2012, 07:15 PM
Oh man.... I am going to do this all day... Is this related to the Australian kookaburra in all Tarzan movies? I have a new ringtone! Just 24K gold!

Not sure, but the first time it was used was in Distant Drums in 1951, but really got it's fame from The Charge at Feather River in 1953. Good call on the ring tone idea! Maybe when I get some in-laws I'll have that as their default ring tone lol!

Joe Giambrone
08-26-2012, 08:28 PM
Of course there's the cell phone that won't connect (guilty), the girl who stumbles and falls every time the killer is chasing her, the car that won't start, and the friend who's entire existence is to get killed ("Dead Meat" in Hot Shots). There's the robber pulling that last job before retirement. The cop on his last day before retirement. The supercop loose cannon who plays by his own rules. Mr. Big gangster who's just like all the other Mr. Big's who have fallen before him. The hero who can run through a hail of bullets but the bad guys can't shoot at all, despite a dozen of them with AK-47s. The mousey librarian who lets down her hair and she's sudenly a supermodel. The school bully. The jerky principal. The goddess hot girl who's really nice, if she could only get away from the jock asshole. The cat that's thrown out from where the psychokiller is no-doubt hiding. The teens who have sex and heads start lopping. The infinite zooming into to photos to retrieve all that hidden detail. Bad science -- pretty much 75% of what screenwriters think sounds scientific.

I'm starting to get a headache.

Paul Stephen Edwards
08-26-2012, 08:34 PM
Of course there's the cell phone that won't connect (guilty), the girl who stumbles and falls every time the killer is chasing her, the car that won't start, and the friend who's entire existence is to get killed ("Dead Meat" in Hot Shots). There's the robber pulling that last job before retirement. The cop on his last day before retirement. The supercop loose cannon who plays by his own rules. Mr. Big gangster who's just like all the other Mr. Big's who have fallen before him. The hero who can run through a hail of bullets but the bad guys can't shoot at all, despite a dozen of them with AK-47s. The mousey librarian who lets down her hair and she's sudenly a supermodel. The school bully. The jerky principal. The goddess hot girl who's really nice, if she could only get away from the jock asshole.

If you put those all together, it would be the most awesome John Hughes movie ever.

Oh, I forgot... the "holding two guns and shooting while jumping shot."

Paul Flack
08-26-2012, 09:27 PM
I hate these ENG style zooms that are completely pointless! They are even in James Cameron's Avatar! I could not believe my eyes. Another reason to hate that movie...


The infinite zooming into to photos to retrieve all that hidden detail. Bad science -- pretty much 75% of what screenwriters think sounds scientific.


Here I highly recommend PRIMER by Shane Carruth. The science talk sounds convincing. Partly because it is too complicated for my stupid braind, but the guy actually studied the stuff he is wrting about!

Of course random über-shallow depth-of-field is terrible (https://vimeo.com/16694019). (I mean, it is EVERYWHERE! (https://vimeo.com/neoheaven/videos)) Actually this was one of the reasons I was looking forward to the fixed Scarlet. At the time I was discovering Kubrick and a lot of even older movies. Really eye opening.

I am sick and tired of watching Scene Selects instead of short films. Everyone is doing a scene select these days. Let me get this clear: if you are a talented VFX guy who wants to get attention from Hollywood by creating something expensive looking with little money, I am okay with that. I love VFX myself.
But if you have no interesting story and no interesting visuals, go write a proper short film, instead of doing a poor "pitch" for a movie that is not finished yet.

This

https://vimeo.com/36813256
and this

https://vimeo.com/13530866
looks nice and souds nice... but is pointless.

I can live with something likes this

https://vimeo.com/26900959

because he is not wasting 10 minutes of my time and seriously tries to pitch something he has in his head.

He knows how to do things.

https://vimeo.com/16838477

Really.

https://vimeo.com/21216091

And please, pleeease, stop using the "Hipster" grade.

And stop overlaying film grain with those scratches on to your (DSLR) footage. (https://vimeo.com/38775602)

And Twixtor Fake Slow-Motion looks like terrible Fake Slow-Motion.

And I believe we do not need to talk about copying stuff from VideoCopilot. I saw an ad in my local city for a local advertisement-company who just download the After Effects preset from Andrew Kramer's reel and changed the text. That was it!

Peter Culley
08-27-2012, 02:02 AM
I think we all need to get together and make the perfect movie by committee...

Can you just imagine????

What a pre production meeting that would be... There would not be a popcorn machine big enoughg...

RyGuy
08-27-2012, 03:01 AM
I think we all need to get together and make the perfect movie by committee...

Can you just imagine????

What a pre production meeting that would be... There would not be a popcorn machine big enoughg...

That would be AWESOME.

I was thinking about something like that a while ago. An open-source BMCC movie, made by different crews across the world, each shooting a select scene, connected by a script that accommodates for different locations and actors.

nihilessence
08-27-2012, 04:24 AM
That would be AWESOME.

I was thinking about something like that a while ago. An open-source BMCC movie, made by different crews across the world, each shooting a select scene, connected by a script that accommodates for different locations and actors.

I am fairly sure that was tongue-in-cheek. Get a committee to design a horse and you end up with a camel - or a Battleship.

Peter Culley
08-27-2012, 06:02 AM
Think of what we could do with a hormel and a battleship!

The props department will love this! I can see the opening scene now with DiCaprio on his hormel on the bow of the battleship singing I will be the king of the world and turning to camera saying YOU JUST DONT GET IT DO YOU...



I am fairly sure that was tongue-in-cheek. Get a committee to design a horse and you end up with a camel - or a Battleship.

Joe Giambrone
08-27-2012, 05:46 PM
They've already done the ultimate made by committee movie:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3NwB9PLxss

Tim Hole
08-27-2012, 09:22 PM
He knows how to do things.

Dear Ruairi, ever the Oscar loser. A part of me would have loved to have seen his Akira, but not if it was to be set in the US. I look forward to Last days on Mars though.

I think the server would crash if I listed all the things I disliked about Avatar... :D

I liked Primer but it wasn't that fantastic. I think my biggest qualm with the sound wasn't fantastic and when I saw it in the cinema I kept missing bits because the director in his infinite wisdom would have the cast spew out three pages worth of dialogue but half the time the camera would not be on him when he was speaking (or was behind him). Normally would not be such a big deal but when the sound is not fantastic...you need lips to help decipher what they were saying. Also I might be getting confused her with another film but was there some type over the film? I seem to remember the film being very white and the typeface was white and kept missing what was written (that might be a different film). I think the concept was nicely played out but it was a frustrating experience watching it.

Tim Hole
08-27-2012, 09:34 PM
It ain't the years, it's the mileage...

We aren't getting crossed lines here are we...you know I am referring to the overused line, I wasn't saying that about you :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlonv3yJCL4

Tim Hole
08-27-2012, 09:44 PM
The infinite zooming into to photos to retrieve all that hidden detail. Bad science -- pretty much 75% of what screenwriters think sounds scientific..

Not sure I get this one...Are we talking like the Bladerunner sequence or are you talking about photo enhancements in political thrillers and detective films etc...

Well its a good excuse to put in the great Red Dwarf parody of the Bladerunner sequence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUFkb0d1kbU

David
08-28-2012, 01:35 AM
A lot of the things that are so hated on here are making a lot of people tons of money! Call me a whore but I'm after the money and if a client want's a 3D animated robot slamming individual letters of their logo against the wall one by one as the wall is cracking behind it with a slow motion shot mixed in there for no reason at all other than they want to see the glint coming off of the exposed metal underneath the paint job, that's exactly what I'm going to give them. Clients pay through the roof for this type of stuff! I've even stooped as low as using sucky trapcode plugins instead of actual design skills to make art directors/clients happy. When clients are smart enough to trust me of course these are not the types of things I would do, but when asked to, I am always ready to give any well paying client the cheesy cliche stuff they want. If you think less of me so be it but I know more than a few people who lead less than financially rewarding careers because they are "Real Artists".

dustylense
08-28-2012, 02:47 AM
I'm gonna add to the narrow thin 1.4 full frame DOF....extreme slow mo for anything other than scientific purposes. OOOOhhhh, the FS700 does 240p!! Great. Vimeo will be littered with boring shots that would be boring in realtime that now will last forever. Just go search RED Epic material and watch paint dry.

Paul Flack
08-28-2012, 10:39 AM
I'm gonna add to the narrow thin 1.4 full frame DOF....

1.4? lol, noob - never heard of the Canon EF 1.2 50mm L?

vealti
08-28-2012, 11:14 AM
I think he was meaning having only 1.4 inches of DOF from a full frame sensor.

dustylense
08-28-2012, 11:16 AM
1.4? lol, noob - never heard of the Canon EF 1.2 50mm L?
Yeah I own it. But a majority of the guys shooting sharp noses don't. Tell me, why do pros buy 1.2 speed lenses?

dustylense
08-28-2012, 11:21 AM
I think he was meaning having only 1.4 inches of DOF from a full frame sensor.
No I wasn't. But you could look at it that way too. The reason I picked the 1.4 is that the 1.2 is a $1400 lens. I have 2 of them. I also own every prime from wide to 135mm. I'll easily take Paul to a lens debate and stack my collection against his. But, I know, or at least hope he was/is kidding...:cool: Ever heard of the Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M ASPH , Paul?

Paul Flack
08-28-2012, 11:41 AM
No I wasn't. But you could look at it that way too. The reason I picked the 1.4 is that the 1.2 is a $1400 lens. I have 2 of them. I also own every prime from wide to 135mm. I'll easily take Paul to a lens debate and stack my collection against his. But, I know, or at least hope he was/is kidding...:cool: Ever heard of the Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M ASPH , Paul?

Of course I was kidding. I thought the "lol, noob" made that clear. And I wasn't even bothering mentionening faster glass ;)

daveswan
08-28-2012, 01:23 PM
Ever heard of the Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M ASPH , Paul?

* Drools*

That is serious lens porn.:D

RyGuy
08-28-2012, 04:21 PM
1.4? lol, noob - never heard of the Canon EF 1.2 50mm L?

This comment made my day. Perfection.

Andrew Rieger
08-28-2012, 06:35 PM
The ones that annoy me include lens flare for anything sci fi, handheld footage during normal/calm dialogue scenes, Body mount shots (Requiem for a Dream), desaturated footage for anything post apocalyptic or "gritty", scenes that takes place in cars that are clearly done with greenscreen, overly loud punching noises during fight scenes, light that seems to come from nowhere during night scenes and last but not least, night scenes that look really blue.

Fluoro
08-28-2012, 08:33 PM
handheld footage during normal/calm dialogue scenes,
You just know how cool the director thinks he/she is for going for a gritty documentary shooting style.

That being said it can work in rare cases such as the Bourne films and the work of Cassevetes.

I don't remember body mounted camera ever being a good idea.

Edit: This last statement has been officially retracted.

Paul Stephen Edwards
08-28-2012, 08:42 PM
I liked the effect in some of Woody Allen's films.

DanielJ
08-28-2012, 11:05 PM
I don't know if this is cliche necessarily, but 3-D that serves no purpose is definitely one on my list.

ryaninoz
08-28-2012, 11:07 PM
Anytime new technology makes something accessible we see an overuse of it. I remember in ENG work when electronic shutter came in endless action sequences being shot in high shutter then slow mo'd. Time lapse was next to get the done to death treatment, then thanks to the 5d super thin DOF ( everytime a director asks for everything to be shot with shallow DOF for no other reason than it looks cool something inside of me dies a little ) I am guessing the next wave of "apply this to every single shot" will be high speed slow motion thanks to the FS700. Personally I think any of these effects can work well IF they serve the story being told, when used for no other reason than it's the new cool look your no longer an artist telling a story but a slave to fashion trying to fit in.

kgimedia
08-29-2012, 12:41 AM
Ever heard of the Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M ASPH , Paul?
The Leica 50mm f/0.95 Noctilux-M ASPH was just a bit to shallow for my tastes. So I sold it and bought a the Canon EF 50mm f/1.0L USM. Lol.

As a person that spent much of my youth in caves in West Virginia I can't stand well lit caves. I know you can't have a pitch black film but come on. Where is that light from around the corner and on the rock coming from if you are miles deep in a cave?

Ryan Paige
08-29-2012, 01:52 AM
I don't remember body mounted camera ever being a good idea.

The Surprising Adventures of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

John Brawley
08-29-2012, 01:56 AM
The Surprising Adventures of Sir Digby Chicken Caesar.

+1.

And Lock Stock & Two Smoking Barrels...

jb

Fluoro
08-29-2012, 02:48 AM
Okay I just thought of the technique being used well (if minimally) in one of my favourite films, Sexy Beast. I hereby retract my statement.

Yaso
08-29-2012, 03:46 AM
The moon in every shot. The Eiffel Tower in every shot. Baguettes to show someone is French or currently in France. The American Flag in every shot. Stuff like that :)

David R
08-31-2012, 08:11 AM
Grindhouse wannabe films, tarentino knockoffs, guy ritchie knock offs (I don't like guy ritchie in general), fake film effect.. I was extremely disappointed when Fincher used this effect in Benjamin Button...PTA did it right in magnolia, if you have the budget why not actually shoot it on the film that you are trying to mimic? I've also seen people do this with a VHS look...why can't you just be a little authentic and find an old VHS camcorder and shoot with it.. bugs me. I should admit that I'm guilty of the fake film effect on one short I made for fun with a friend, but I used an HV40 with twoneil adapter and an old crappy nikon lens rather than DSLR...it was actually pretty convincing. I will add that I didn't put scratches or lines in it, just some grading and subtle noise. But still I hate that effect and for serious projects I would never do that.

daydreamersproductions
09-08-2012, 12:19 AM
Shakey cam handheld camera. in the 70's that was TV like Hawaii 5-0 as they only had a few days to film the episode. In film you had dolly moves, etc., that gave it that polished look. It looked like a movie. Even Die hard was mostly a dolly/tripod shot movie. The only shakey cam movie that worked was Blair Witch project, and it worked cause it was not camera men doing it but real people. Now I hate this shakey cam crap. My friend told me "but it makes it look like a documentary" Documentaries are documentaries. Narrative films are Narrative films. There is a film language to moving a camera to get an emotion. This shakey cam crap will go out soon and 10 years from now people will be looking at it going "God that era sucked"

daydreamersproductions
09-08-2012, 12:25 AM
- Failing to establish the 'geography' of a scene (lack of establishing/location shots, lack of cohesion is showing movement through a space) That is what I loved about Die Hard. McTierrnan wanted to establish location so he put random things that at first you thought were stupid (Like McClane noticing the Playboy Centerfold on the wall in one cut away POV shot) but later he used it to his advantage to show that McClane knew where he was in the location. That is why the next time we see it, he slides his hand across the centerfold poster and says "Girls". McTierrnan did it a few times in the movie on purpose. To establish location and to not only let McClane know where he was at, but also to let the audience in on it.

Spielberg also did it in Jaws too with props. He meticulously did a few shots to establish prop location for later. He had his camera focus on the Quints knife on the wall a few times, then purposely showed him chopping it into the deck of the Orca at a certain spot so that when the shark jumps the stern and is attacking him, it is where he can grab it. He also did a seemingly throw away shot of Brody putting the oxygen tank on the table in the Orca so that later on when the boat tips and Bruce comes in through the window, the tank is logically right there for him to throw into Bruce's mouth.

nickjbedford
09-08-2012, 12:27 AM
Shaky cam. And also, dolly movies where every shot is on a dolly, regardless of whether it actually works.

But shaky cam doesn't equal handheld/shoulder. There's a lot of shoulder cam in Nolan's films (Wally Pfister DP) which I like.

daydreamersproductions
09-08-2012, 12:40 AM
Shaky cam. And also, dolly movies where every shot is on a dolly, regardless of whether it actually works.

But shaky cam doesn't equal handheld/shoulder. There's a lot of shoulder cam in Nolan's films (Wally Pfister DP) which I like.
Sometimes shoulder shots work but sometimes it just looks out of place with the other smoother stuff and looks like they were running out of time at the location and decided to say "Screw it. Shoot it handheld"

pharpsied
09-08-2012, 09:45 AM
Close up with a wide angle lens. Nuff said.

Jason R. Johnston
10-09-2012, 05:11 AM
I don't know which of these is worse: unmotivated anything (composition, lighting, blocking, cutting), or zero thought ("just stand there, I guess").

Other peeves: razor-thin depth of field, moving the camera just to move it, moving the camera in an unrealistic manner (CGI-style), anything Michael Bay or JJ Abrams are involved in, inappropriate "music video" montages at the end of episodic TV dramas, all current American television now that I think of it, Ridley or Tony Scott knock-offs (I'm looking at YOU Michael Bay!!!)...there's just too many.

In my personal experience behind the camera, my biggest beef is a director who doesn't care for anyone else on the set. I once shot half a movie and every one of the [famous actors] confessed (either right there on set, or with me in private) that it was the worst set they'd ever been on. I walked after the first week. I didn't even get paid until I signed a NDA forbidding me to speak ill of the movie or it's director. The thing is there's too many young bastards walking around with DSLR's thinking they're all that and a bag of chips. There's a certain arrogant attitude going around nowadays and I don't care for it. Crappy people = crappy product. The same is true of audiences eating it up as ticket prices increase and the standards of what makes a good motion picture goes down.

About me: I really, really enjoyed The King's Speech. Jaws is my favorite movie. Fiddler on the Roof makes me feel all humble and gooey.

David
10-09-2012, 10:54 AM
Michael Bay is awesome. Transformers 3 kicked ass. Of course it's not going to wow the critics, it's not meant to, but it's an enjoyable watch for the masses. Most every kid, teenager I know loves that stuff.

Paul Stephen Edwards
10-09-2012, 01:41 PM
I quite liked the Bad Boys movies. Transformers resembled a sack of crumpled soda cans tossed at the camera for a couple of hours.

boofagle
10-10-2012, 09:39 AM
-shakey cam-I almost puked during hunger games.
-ridiculously shallow depth of field just because you have a dslr. Look at the most amazing movies, shallow depth of field is used only to enhance the emotion of a scene. It's not used in every scene! (re: amazing movies=the movies at the end of the great movie ride!)
-I shoot with a dslr for sit down interviews but I don't use it for anything else because personally I don't think they work well for what I do. I think it's hilarious when I see people running around with dslrs holding them like point and shoots with rode or some other type of 1/8 mic attached to the top of them. Yeah I know it works well for lots of situations but it's just weird to me.
-when people say "I'm going to film this..or that.." when clearly you aren't using film. I always use the term "shoot." When I worked at a tv station the photogs would rip apart an intern when they used the term "film".

boofagle
10-10-2012, 09:41 AM
Close up with a wide angle lens. Nuff said. except for this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=argCvDpk_KQ

Victor Nguyen
11-19-2012, 11:28 PM
Close up with a wide angle lens. Nuff said.

I believe Amelie uses wide angle for close up a lot. Anyway, what I see often on youtube is horrendous sound. I can forgive some things like shallow depth of field, composition, but I just can't stand terrible sound.

jeebus
01-09-2013, 08:02 PM
Dark stuff mostly:

-David Lynch style student/amateur shorts, have been guilty of them a long time ago BTW.
-To much action-sci-fi, without fitting production value.
-Violence is wrong movies, that glorify violence.
-(Wannabe) gangster movies. I guess Tarantino has been guilty of causing that.

I do like an uncomplicated slasher though, from time to time.

I wish more students/amateurs would focus on human interaction, or even love stories. Guess I am becoming old...


Ahhhh... The David Lynch short. My first year in film school (last year) we had to make homage films. I wrote, shot, directed & edited a David Lynch homage. As is the case when paying homage to any director there is a fine line between biting style and being influenced by them.

Grug
01-09-2013, 11:03 PM
-when people say "I'm going to film this..or that.." when clearly you aren't using film. I always use the term "shoot." When I worked at a tv station the photogs would rip apart an intern when they used the term "film".

Film isn't just a noun, it's a verb too.

Ryan Paige
01-10-2013, 03:41 AM
I always use the term "shoot."

At least if someone overhears you saying you're going to "film" someone downtown, they don't call the police (usually).

nickjbedford
01-10-2013, 03:51 AM
Only photographers can get away with, "Girl, I want to take you out into the bush and shoot you."