PDA

View Full Version : 5D vs BMPCC?



flean
01-30-2014, 06:07 PM
I'd love to hear feedbacks from shooters who switched from a 5D to BmPCC (or vice versa) and their reasons for the switch. It'd be interesting to hear how their visual approach and style changed (if changed)....thanks

nickjbedford
01-30-2014, 06:15 PM
I own a Mark III and a BMPCC and it's night and day.

The entire dynamic range is captured into the image, the image is noticeably more detailed, you get a nice subtle grain (noise) structure and no edge sharpening and over softening problems that make it look like video.

Here's a frame from when I just got my BMPCC. Can't get that kinda detail out of the 5D Mark III video. This was shot in ProRes.

http://www.nickbedford.com/uploads/bear-medium.jpg

flean
01-30-2014, 06:31 PM
I own a Mark III and a BMPCC and it's night and day.

The entire dynamic range is captured into the image, the image is noticeably more detailed, you get a nice subtle grain (noise) structure and no edge sharpening and over softening problems that make it look like video.

Here's a frame from when I just got my BMPCC. Can't get that kinda detail out of the 5D Mark III video. This was shot in ProRes.

http://www.nickbedford.com/uploads/bear-medium.jpg

Thanks for the image. It's pretty sharp and detailed.

Are you using your BMPCC for all your video work? In what situation do you use your 5D?

misterkofa
01-30-2014, 07:45 PM
Just watch this. It's not the pocket but the same applies. I've owned several canons from t2i to 5d2, 60d and 6D and the pocket has a much better, filmic image.


https://vimeo.com/49875510

J.F.R.
01-30-2014, 10:40 PM
I'd love to hear feedbacks from shooters who switched from a 5D to BmPCC (or vice versa) and their reasons for the switch. It'd be interesting to hear how their visual approach and style changed (if changed)....thanks

Very different tools...... If you are a 5D owner I would suggest you rent the Pocket Camera for a weekend ( about $100) before you decide to purchase. Many things about the camera you will NOT like if you have never used it before. The advantage over the 5D is image quality, the disadvantage is many things...... You need an ND filter + IR Cut Filter. You also need to grade your image in order to get something nice and that alone can be very challenging compared to a 5D shooter which already has it's Canon Picture Profiles baked in. Also you will lose Shallow DOF, Low Light Sensitivity/ High Iso and 60fps (720p Mode). 5D also can take some beautiful time lapse pictures in full resolution, the pocket camera is stuck to 1080p...... Many more things and I suggest you Rent it and form your own opinion.

flean
01-31-2014, 05:52 PM
Thanks everyone. very helpful. But I really wanted to hear about users who shot with a 5D Mark III w/magic Lantern (not just the 5D) compared to BMPCC.

BM4EVER
01-31-2014, 07:05 PM
NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick and misterkofa are clearly talking about an unhacked 5D....that video is comparing the 5D H264, not raw, and THAT is night and day. The Magic Lantern hack has made the Canon's extremely close in terms of DR. The 5D3 is just as sharp if not sharper than the pocket at 1080P, but can also shoot at higher resolutions in crop mode. Considering its full frame gives a completely different look than a s16 or even s35 sensor, given that it can shoot slo-mo raw, and that it is an incredible stills camera (or 5K timelapse camera), it is a very valuable tool to many people.


http://vimeo.com/72008856

jpblack
01-31-2014, 09:43 PM
I own both, and shoot with both. Personally, I find the raw output from both cameras very similar. The 5D III has a clear picture while the pocket always has a bit of grain -you can choose to remove it-, the colours can be matched pretty easily between them but the pocket's colour science is slightly better to my eyes. I consider them equal when it comes down to which one I would choose, but I still use the 5D3 as an A cam, since moire can occur quite often with the pocket -obviously you can avoid it-, and most commercials or shows I shoot, don't care about raw and prefer smaller files. That being said I feel that everything has its place, h.264, prores, or raw, depending on the project. If I could have just one camera, and remember we probably don't have the same needs, that would be the 5D III, more rentable/desirable, great photos, 4:2:2 hdmi out, raw, magic lantern, battery life, dual cards, rugged/waterproof, full frame -questionable advantage-, better menus/ergonomics, resale value, 50/60p, etc...One thing that annoys me is the fact that the 5D III doesn't output sound through the HDMI. If I was focused purely on filmmaking I would probably choose the pocket. Confused? :)

cpc
02-01-2014, 09:31 AM
A frame lifted directly from a 5dm3 raw video file (1920x960), default debayer sharpness (10) in resolve, no additional sharpening, iso 1600, no NR, primary color correction only:
http://imageshack.com/a/img43/2527/5u49.jpg

Sharp enough but organic. Much cleaner than both BM cameras in terms of aliasing.
A couple of batteries will last you a shooting day. ML can be quirky though (at least you can see space/time left on the card :P).

Hampus Lager
02-01-2014, 11:04 AM
nice, cpc! what's the lighting setup?

Ody
02-01-2014, 11:34 AM
anytime a camera is hacked the potential for a better picture ..

Thekreative
02-01-2014, 11:53 AM
I have to say I love my 5D mark III ML combo. Not the same as a BM camera but it also shoots stills, has audio meters, I like using small CF cards, huge sensor, great low light....... but I love the BM colour mojo.

flean
02-01-2014, 11:57 AM
Great Pic! Now, what would be interesting is to compare a 5D with ML for raw and a BMPCC with speed booster? Has anyone know of a video comparaison?

cpc
02-01-2014, 12:54 PM
nice, cpc! what's the lighting setup?

Large windows spanning the whole wall 2-3 meters in front of her. You can read these in the eyes and the hair highlight. Large windows on the right but much further away. The windows are looking into a large inner court with a translucent ceiling. I possibly used a black flag somewhat far on the right and behind her to keep a bit of light off the background, but not sure about that, there were quite a lot of setups done in a limited time. In any case, I only used white sheats and black flags on that location. I had a couple of HMI pars (1.2kw and 575w) in case I need to augment natural light but never saw the need to use them, and I have no reservations about using the 5dm3 at 1600 with good exposure.

There is much more to ML than raw image quality.
ML gets you some excellent video tools. In fact, ML offers tools you can't find in pro video cameras worth many times more $$. I use the digital spotmeter all the time, I never turn it off. Used to use it with my 550d all the time. I now see any camera lacking this or similar spot tool (like a spot WFM) as crippled. Magic zoom + digic peaking is the best single operator focus tool I've used, and the cool thing is digic peaking works fullscreen on top of magic zoom so it also applies to the zoomed window. This makes traditional peaking tools look like children toys. I've made solo focus pulls with this combo that I would never otherwise even consider possible (characters coming into closeups). There is, ofc, much more (zebras, wfm, vectorscope, raw histogram, exposure headroom indicator, traditional peaking, etc), but these are my favorites.
There are caveats though. Most notably, random artefacts that look like memory damage can render frames unusable (happens rarely). This is probably solvable with the right settings, but I don't own the camera, so haven't made extensive tests.
Bottom line: For narrative I'll take a 5dm3+ml instead of a BMCC or BMPCC anyday (or at least any overcast day ;). Probably because I hate aliasing more than I like extended DR, and even though I don't like the full frame shallow dof look. Low light is a nice bonus. YMMV.

flean
02-01-2014, 11:29 PM
I've found this comparison. "In depth test – 5D Mark III and 7D raw video vs Blackmagic Pocket vs GH3"
http://www.eoshd.com/content/11350/depth-test-5d-mark-iii-7d-raw-vs-blackmagic-pocket-vs-gh3
What do you think?

misterkofa
02-01-2014, 11:31 PM
Thanks everyone. very helpful. But I really wanted to hear about users who shot with a 5D Mark III w/magic Lantern (not just the 5D) compared to BMPCC.

Then why didn't you say that in the first place? :confused:

yoclay
02-02-2014, 01:36 AM
NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nick and misterkofa are clearly talking about an unhacked 5D....that video is comparing the 5D H264, not raw, and THAT is night and day. The Magic Lantern hack has made the Canon's extremely close in terms of DR. The 5D3 is just as sharp if not sharper than the pocket at 1080P, but can also shoot at higher resolutions in crop mode. Considering its full frame gives a completely different look than a s16 or even s35 sensor, given that it can shoot slo-mo raw, and that it is an incredible stills camera (or 5K timelapse camera), it is a very valuable tool to many people.


http://vimeo.com/72008856

You can do slo-mo Raw on the 5D MIII? Is this in 720p or 1080p? I am assuming the former...
When you say higher resolution in crop mode, what are the resolutions and crops?

Ody
02-02-2014, 03:56 PM
A frame lifted directly from a 5dm3 raw video file (1920x960), default debayer sharpness (10) in resolve, no additional sharpening, iso 1600, no NR, primary color correction only:
http://imageshack.com/a/img43/2527/5u49.jpg

Sharp enough but organic. Much cleaner than both BM cameras in terms of aliasing.
A couple of batteries will last you a shooting day. ML can be quirky though (at least you can see space/time left on the card :P).

5d 3 is starting to look like a red epic