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Sangye
04-13-2013, 05:39 PM
Although I called this thread a "complete" list, it is and might always be incomplete.
You can help by submitting more lenses in comments below!

I think it would be very useful, and interesting to a good number of people, to compile a centralized list of lenses for various mounts that could be adapted to the Pocket Camera. That is the purpose of this thread, which will include current availability, pricing, FOV, DOF (normalized to 6' subject distance), and other information specific to each lens.

Compiling this list will be a lot of work, so any help is more than welcome. Please use the comments to submit lenses for listing, or to add more information about lenses that are already listed. Of particular importance, once the camera is available, will be information that confirms whether or not specific C-mount, PL mount, Arriflex, and other non-MFT mount lenses work with proper adapters, which is to say that the rear element does not touch the sensor, and that the lens focuses to infinity. Subjective comments about any of these lenses are also welcome. If there is apparent consensus on lens quality, I will annotate in that information as well.

Native MFT Mount - note: all lenses designed for the MFT format should work on the Pocket Camera. The list is long, but here are some of the more notable options:


SLR Magic 12mm f/1.6 - $550 new (as of Apr 2013). Fully manual. Soft wide open, but some including myself find its softness beautiful. The flares can get a little ugly, however.

FOV on Super-16: 52.9°.
DOF at f/1.6 for subject at 6': 3.96'


Olympus 12mm f/2.0 - $800 new (as of Apr 2013). Auto-focus.

FOV on Super-16: 52.9°.
DOF at f/2 for subject at 6': 5.3'


Olympus 17mm f/1.8 - $500 new (as of Apr 2013). Auto-focus.

FOV on Super-16: 38.7°.
DOF at f/1.8 for subject at 6': 2.07'


Voigtländer 17.5mm f/0.95 - $1250 new (as of Apr 2013). Fully manual. De-clicked aperture.

FOV on Super-16: 37.7°.
DOF at f/0.95 for subject at 6': 1.02'


Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 - $400 new (as of Apr 2013). Auto-focus. "Pancake" form factor.

FOV on Super-16: 33.2°.
DOF at f/1.7 for subject at 6': 1.39'


Voigtländer 25mm f/0.95 - $1200 new (as of Apr 2013). Fully manual.

FOV on Super-16: 26.9°.
DOF at f/0.95 for subject at 6': 0.5'


SLR Magic 25mm T/0.95 - $800 on pre-order (as of Apr 2013). Fully manual.

FOV on Super-16: 26.9°.
DOF at f/0.95 for subject at 6': 0.5'


Leica Summilux 25mm f/1.4 - $500 new (as of Apr 2013). Auto-focus.

FOV on Super-16: 26.9°.
DOF at f/1.4 for subject at 6': 0.74'


Olympus 45mm f/1.8 - $500 new (as of Apr 2013). Auto-focus.

FOV on Super-16: 15.1°.
DOF at f/1.8 for subject at 6': 0.28'


SLR Magic 50mm T/0.95 - $1100 new (as of Apr 2013). Fully manual.

FOV on Super-16: 13.6°.
DOF at f/0.95 for subject at 6': 0.12'




C-Mount - note: C-mount is just a mount, it is not a sensor format. Common sensor formats that utilize C-mount include 1/4", 1/3", 1/2", 2/3", 1", and 1.3". Of these, only those lenses that were designed for 1" and 1.3" sensors can be expected to cover the Super-16 size sensor of this camera. Even so, there is no guarantee that these lenses are compatible, due to potential flange-distance issues. For that reason, I will be marking each lens as being either confirmed or unconfirmed to work with the Pocket Camera.


Fujinon 2.7mm f/1.8 Fisheye - $400 (as of Apr 2013).

FOV on Super-16: 130.6°.
DOF at f/1.8 for subject at 6': infinite.
Unconfirmed.


Kowa 6mm f/1.8 - $600 (as of Apr 2013).

FOV on Super-16: 88.8°.
DOF at f/1.8 for subject at 6': infinite.
Unconfirmed.


Kowa 8mm f/1.4 - $450 (as of Apr 2013).

FOV on Super-16: 72.6°.
DOF at f/1.8 for subject at 6': 8.3'.
Unconfirmed.


Kowa 16-64mm f/1.8 - $ unknown (as of Apr 2013).

FOV on Super-16: 40.9° - 10.7°.
DOF at 16mm at f/1.8 for subject at 6': 2.36'.
DOF at 64mm at f/1.8 for subject at 6': 0.133'.
Unconfirmed.




PL Mount - note: there are a number of MFT to PL mount adapters, allowing for the use of various Super-35 and Super-16mm lenses. These generally fall in the several-hundred-dollar range.

I have not yet had time to do research on this lens format. You can help me by listing PL mount lenses that are well suited for this camera, in a comment below!


Arriflex Mount

I have not yet had time to do research on this lens format. You can help me by listing Arriflex mount lenses that are well suited for this camera, in a comment below!



Other Mounts

I have not yet had time to do research on other mounts. You can help me by listing noteworthy mount types, and corresponding lenses that are well suited for this camera, in a comment below!

Sangye
04-13-2013, 05:39 PM
A short discussion on "crop factor", and related confusions.
There seems to be a considerable amount of confusion around the "crop factor" of this camera. It is true that to get the same field of view on this camera that you would have on a "full frame" DSLR at a given focal length, you need to have a lens with 1/3 the focal length. However, the sensor is not "cropped" in any way. It is simply another format, which closely resembles Super-16, a format with an established history in filmmaking and a long list of lenses that are optimized for it and other similarly sized formats.

Whatever the reason for the confusion, I think the best way to dispel it is to begin talking about focal lengths in reference to field of view (FOV), rather than in reference to "full frame" equivalence. To help ease that transition, here is a simple chart of common focal lengths for "full frame" cameras, and their FOV equivalents.


17mm: 93.3°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 5.5mm lens on Super-16.
20mm: 84°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 7mm lens on Super-16.
24mm: 73.7°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of an 8mm lens on Super-16.
28mm: 65.5°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 9mm lens on Super-16.
35mm: 54.4°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 12mm lens on Super-16.
50mm: 39.6°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 17mm lens on Super-16.
58mm: 34.5°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 19mm lens on Super-16.
70mm: 28.8°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 23mm lens on Super-16.
85mm: 23.9°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 28mm lens on Super-16.
105mm: 19.5°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 35mm lens on Super-16.
135mm: 15.2°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 45mm lens on Super-16.
180mm: 11.4°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 60mm lens on Super-16.
200mm: 10.3°. This corresponds roughly to the FOV of a 67mm lens on Super-16.

Sangye
04-13-2013, 05:40 PM
2nd reply reserved.

Hearnia
04-13-2013, 05:51 PM
I don't think the Panasonic 20 f1.7 is image stabilized. Not sure though.

Thanks for keeping this list. Lot of misinformation out there.

Sangye
04-13-2013, 06:32 PM
Thanks - you're right that the 20 1.7 is not IS. I'll fix that now. Also adding a Kowa 16-64mm f/1.8 that's designed for 1" sensors. Can't confirm if it'll focus to infinity or have any other flange issues, but on paper it looks like a great zoom telephoto.

J.F.R.
04-13-2013, 06:42 PM
Do NOT forget Slr Magic other lenses (Which I currently own and use on a GH3).....

25mm f/.95
35mm t 1/.4 (also they will be releasing a .95 35mm as well)

bitcrusher
04-13-2013, 08:34 PM
On the PL side I would also include arri bayonet in the same catagory - here is what I have found

This list is of native s16 glass or legacy 16mm glass that covers.

Primes

Zeiss Ultra 16 Lenses T/1.3
6mm, 8mm, 9.5mm, 12mm, 14mm, 18mm, 25mm, 35mm, 50mm

Zeiss Super Speed s16 T/1.3
9.5mm, 12mm, 16mm, 25mm, 50mm* only on MK2 MK3 sets.

Zeiss B speed s16
8mm T/2 (the older mk1 version in T/2.4 i think) * I am not sure if this lens covers S16 EDIT Looks like there is a good chance of vignetting, It will not cover the full s16 frame but will just barley cover 16:9 but the BM is just slightly bigger with its 16:9 crop.....

Optar Illumina Super-16 T/1.3
8mm, 9.5mm, 12mm, 16mm, 25mm, 50mm

Cinema Products Ultra T T/1.25
9mm, 12.5mm, 16mm, 25mm

One-Offs:
4mm T1.9 OPTEX SUPER CINE
5.5mm T1.9 OPTEX SUPER CINE
6mm T1.9 CENTURY 2000
5.7mm T1.8 KINOPTIK

Zooms

Canon
7-63mm T2.6
8-64mm T2.4
11-165mm T2.5
11.5-138mm T2.5

Zeiss
11-110mm T2.2

ANGENIEUX HR
7-81mm T2.4
11.5-138mm T2.3

Robert Rogoz
04-13-2013, 09:21 PM
Schneider also makes some c-mount lenses for 1" and 1.3" chips. A couple are F.0.95.

RockettMan
04-13-2013, 11:03 PM
Is this the SLR Magic you have listed? http://www.adorama.com/SLR1216MFT.html

Robert Rogoz
04-14-2013, 01:39 AM
This site has whole list of C-mount lenses. They are lenses for 1" sensors, including Pentax and Schneider Optics
http://www.rmassa.com/lenses.htm
There is a video with S16 footage showing some of the lenses used on S16 film camera
https://vimeo.com/5039428
According to the tester these lenses will work with S16 sensor:
1. Optar Illumina 8mm T1.3 PL Mount
2. Cosmicar TV Lens 12.5mm f/1.4 C-Mount
3. Taylor Hobson 1 Inch (25mm) f/1.9 C-Mount
4. Elgeet 2 Inch (50mm) f/1.5 C-Mount
5. Kern Paillard YVAR 75mm f/2.8 C-Mount

BenHalford
04-14-2013, 01:40 AM
I know I keep going on about it but you should include the metabones speed
Booster in the list. I know its been delayed but the 4/3 with Nikon F should be out by the time the pocket arrives...
So there's a tonne of great Nikon Glass that can be put on the PCC with a FOV ( equivalent to 35) of about X2 giving us
Some great options.

Its a shame the Tokina Cine is going to be so expensive..

LostBoyNZ
04-14-2013, 01:49 AM
Extremely helpful, thank you! Especially the "crop factor" comparison :)

Jtorrents
04-14-2013, 04:38 AM
I'm thnking about using Leica M lenses with adapter. Optically are excellent and being small in size would be a perfect match for the pocket camera.

Nomad
04-14-2013, 05:08 AM
Please keep in mind that most C-mount TV lenses from the past have been made for standard TV resolution, not for HDTV, so they may be quite soft.

morgan_moore
04-14-2013, 05:24 AM
Also of interest is the Oly 7-14 zoom

a lot of DOF at F4 but good range!

Robert Rogoz
04-14-2013, 01:29 PM
Also of interest is the Oly 7-14 zoom

a lot of DOF at F4 but good range!
Panasonic makes one (7-14mm). Why would you need a massive shallow DOF for panoramic/landscape/interiors shots?

zackwilson
04-15-2013, 03:36 PM
Does anyone know if the Angenieux Zoom 12-120mm - Type 10x12 B 1:2.2 Lens - Arri ST With C mount adapter would work with the Pocketcam? Any issues with using it?

double_vision
04-15-2013, 03:55 PM
Just for clarification that active micro four thirds mount only apply for changing aperture/iris and provide image stabilization. There's no autofocus for this camera using native lenses, which is fine for video.

Kyle Presley
04-15-2013, 05:56 PM
None of the kowa c mount lenses will work. The diameter of these lenses is too wide to fit in the throat of the mft mount where flange of the c mount is located.

Sangye
04-15-2013, 08:06 PM
Just for clarification that active micro four thirds mount only apply for changing aperture/iris and provide image stabilization. There's no autofocus for this camera using native lenses, which is fine for video.

True there is no auto-focus, but auto-focus lenses can be remotely focused on this camera via a LANC controller. See http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/techspecs

This may sound like a gimmick to some, but it is extremely useful when operating a steadicam.

Sangye
04-15-2013, 08:07 PM
None of the kowa c mount lenses will work. The diameter of these lenses is too wide to fit in the throat of the mft mount where flange of the c mount is located.

This is very disappointing if true. Can you post the conflicting measurements?

double_vision
04-15-2013, 08:17 PM
True there is no auto-focus, but auto-focus lenses can be remotely focused on this camera via a LANC controller. See http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/techspecs

This may sound like a gimmick to some, but it is extremely useful when operating a steadicam.

Well, that's really cool. I didnt know that. Do you have suggestion on which affordable LANC controller for this purpose?

ROCKMORE
04-15-2013, 09:15 PM
Does anyone know if the Angenieux Zoom 12-120mm - Type 10x12 B 1:2.2 Lens - Arri ST With C mount adapter would work with the Pocketcam? Any issues with using it?

I have an Angenieux Zoom 12-120mm in storage with all my old 16mm gear. Before I packed it up I considered a super 16 conversion. It covered from about 14 to 120mm, and with the Century Precision 1.6 wide adapter the lens should get back to a 10mm. Glad I still have it now that there is an HD camera coming out to put it on. You will no longer be able to call it a Pocketcam however.

Here is one that just sold for $110. Better get one while they are cheap, but beware the rear element is very clean. I saw a lot of damaged lenses before I found a clean one.
http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Angenieux+Zoom+12-120mm&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

Kyle Presley
04-16-2013, 08:49 AM
I don't have any of the measurements, but I did try to use several lenses of similar diameters on my GH1 and had those issues.

zackwilson
04-16-2013, 02:58 PM
Thanks for the info - when you get it converted, is that something you need a specialty shop to do or is it as simple as getting a specific adapter?


I have an Angenieux Zoom 12-120mm in storage with all my old 16mm gear. Before I packed it up I considered a super 16 conversion. It covered from about 14 to 120mm, and with the Century Precision 1.6 wide adapter the lens should get back to a 10mm. Glad I still have it now that there is an HD camera coming out to put it on. You will no longer be able to call it a Pocketcam however.

Here is one that just sold for $110. Better get one while they are cheap, but beware the rear element is very clean. I saw a lot of damaged lenses before I found a clean one.
http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Angenieux+Zoom+12-120mm&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

ROCKMORE
04-16-2013, 04:51 PM
Thanks for the info - when you get it converted, is that something you need a specialty shop to do or is it as simple as getting a specific adapter?

The conversion I was referring to was converting the camera gate to super 16 then moving the lens mount over. These are all highly technical and expensive.

The good news is that the only modification is on the camera, the lens has no modification, it just can no longer be zoomed out all the way without seeing the corners of the wider super 16 frame.
I think the 12-120mm Angenieux will be a nice addition to the pocket bmc. An f2.2 para-focal zoom lens that has a range from 14mm to 120mm in a modern piece of glass would be expensive as hell. The ones that just sold on ebay cheap went before the pocket camera was announced so I think that prices are likely to go up.

Charlie Doom
04-17-2013, 01:57 PM
Sangye, thank you for posting this. It was exactly what I was hoping for and another example of the caliber of people we have working in our field and on this forum!

jdwyer
04-17-2013, 05:22 PM
Just for clarification that active micro four thirds mount only apply for changing aperture/iris and provide image stabilization. There's no autofocus for this camera using native lenses, which is fine for video.


Why would they build an active M43 mount that can activate aperture but not autofocus? This is such a pity I wanted to use this as a small B cam to grab shots and not worry about pulling focus.

vagabondlover
04-17-2013, 09:40 PM
How about Pentax/Cosmicar 12.5mm f/1.4? Cosmicar 8mm f1.4? Cosmicar 4.8mm f/1.8? Cosmicar 8-48mm f1.0?

ROCKMORE
04-17-2013, 11:26 PM
How about Pentax/Cosmicar 12.5mm f/1.4? Cosmicar 8mm f1.4? Cosmicar 4.8mm f/1.8? Cosmicar 8-48mm f1.0?
Here is a link to some other tests I came across/
http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/2513-pocket-cinema-camera-c-mount-compatibility-list/

vagabondlover
04-17-2013, 11:49 PM
Thanks Rockmore. Also someone mentioned the Tarcus or Fujinon 25mm f0.85. I'd be curious to know how that lens fares.

sbrenner
04-19-2013, 07:31 AM
I've got a nikon Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 that will work great with an MFT to Nikon metabones.
I was wondering though, when using that lens with a normal MFT to Nikon adapter if the
3x crop factor is going to darken the f/2.8 aperture? The Tokina is actually an APS-C sized
lens so that may factor in the math.

Jason M.
04-19-2013, 08:20 AM
I've got a nikon Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 that will work great with an MFT to Nikon metabones.
I was wondering though, when using that lens with a normal MFT to Nikon adapter if the
3x crop factor is going to darken the f/2.8 aperture? The Tokina is actually an APS-C sized
lens so that may factor in the math.

Doesn't make a difference at all. f/2.8 will let in the same amount of light regardless of the sensor.

EDIT: To expand slightly: how much light any given f-stop lets in will change slightly from lens to lens. T-stops measure the actual amount of light transmitted by the lens, not the aperture. But for any given lens, the amount of light it can transmit at a given aperture remains constant. Sensor size doesn't play a role.

sbrenner
04-19-2013, 08:49 AM
The f-stop would remain the same but perhaps the t-stop would diminish if only a smaller portion of the light coming through the lens was being used? I can understand how the speedbooster works since it's concentrating a larger amount of light on a smaller area, but it would seem to be the opposite for cropping....similar to the light lost with a tele-converter... Anyone with both an mft camera w/adapter and a full frame camera using the same full frame lens would confirm one way or another. I'm guessing you're correct.

mikey1004
04-19-2013, 08:23 PM
Remember, it's not total light that we're worried about, it's light per unit area. The SpeedBooster increases light per unit area by decreasing the total area occupied by a given amount of light. Whereas cropping proportionally reduces both the total light used and the total area occupied, which leaves light per unit area the same. At least, that's how I've come to understand these things. I hope that clears things up at least a little.

Here's a question for y'all: is it safe to assume that all 1" format lenses are going to cover (e.g., the ones that can be found here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Format_1%22&ci=3659&N=4045021054+4291756351), among which this Pentax 12.5mm f/1.4 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/553973-REG/Pentax_C21211KP_C21211KP_1_C_Mount.html) looks particularly tempting)?

Sangye
04-19-2013, 11:10 PM
Yes, any lens that covers a 1" format sensor will cover the pocket cameras sensor as well. That's not to say that other factors won't prevent it from being useable though, of course. Flange, physical size, and other factors could prevent it from being useable on an MFT-mount camera.

sbrenner
04-20-2013, 07:05 AM
I've got a very old Cosmicar 12.5mm f/1.4 C-mount lens that I was wondering about.
Should I be concerned that the rear element is only 12-13mm in diameter? Is there
a direct correlation between that measurement and the ability to cover the sensor?
I also have a couple of tv zooms where the Fujion 2/3" lens rear element is 23" in diameter
while the Canon 1/2" lens rear element is 27" in diameter, so clearly something is going on
here that I don't understand.

sfpuk
04-20-2013, 12:38 PM
I've got a nikon Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 that will work great with an MFT to Nikon metabones.
I was wondering though, when using that lens with a normal MFT to Nikon adapter if the
3x crop factor is going to darken the f/2.8 aperture? The Tokina is actually an APS-C sized
lens so that may factor in the math.
How much is the Metabones MFT to Nikon adaptor? I have a Canon Tokina 11-16 but theres currently no adaptor to fit the Pocket cam... So i may get a Nikon version Tokina and an adaptor.

Im still trying to work out what lenses i will eventually end up with. :)

BenHalford
04-20-2013, 01:56 PM
How much is the Metabones MFT to Nikon adaptor? I have a Canon Tokina 11-16 but theres currently no adaptor to fit the Pocket cam... So i may get a Nikon version Tokina and an adaptor.

Im still trying to work out what lenses i will eventually end up with. :)

You guys wont be able to use these Tokina's properly with the speedboost adapter, as the the Nikon F to M4/3 speedbooster is a dumb mount...
and your iris in the lens is controlled electronically.

EDIT: My bad, you guys are just talking about the standard adapter which has iris control right? :P

Nomad
04-20-2013, 02:25 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I tested a Schneider Variogon 1:2 / 18-90mm on a Panasonic GH2 and cropped it to S-16. It works well at all focal lengths without vignetting and pretty good sharpness, just a bit more CA in the corners. I found a sample in good condition on German Ebay for 270,- €.

You may have to support this lens, since it weighs 800 grams.

Hope this helps.

sbrenner
04-20-2013, 03:06 PM
You guys wont be able to use these Tokina's properly with the speedboost adapter, as the the Nikon F to M4/3 speedbooster is a dumb mount...
and your iris in the lens is controlled electronically.

EDIT: My bad, you guys are just talking about the standard adapter which has iris control right? :P

Sfpuk and I were talking about the metabones, but I don't see an MFT versions for sale, they are mostly NEX based right now.
The Tokina 11-16 does not have manual aperture, so any type of adapter is going to need to control it.

--------
I was looking over the Metabones website and it looked like they were not supporting DX or EF-S lenses nor any G lenses.
So I sent the following message to them:

"From your FAQ, it looks like you are focusing on manual Nikon Lenses.
The Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 would be an ideal candidate for an MTF-Nikon
speedbooster on the new Blackmagic pocket camera. The Tokina is both
a DX lens and G lens (having no aperture ring of it's own). Does this make
it very unlikely that you will support a speedbooster that will function on
this lens?"

I got the following response which did not really address my question:

"Yes! We will launch Nikon speed booster at next half-year…PLs wait….
Pls pay attention on our website later…."

Rakesh Malik
04-20-2013, 06:45 PM
This may sound like a gimmick to some, but it is extremely useful when operating a steadicam.

And the Pocket cinema camera might as well have been specifically designed for steadicam... I'm getting a Merlin 2 (on its way) so that I can pratcie with my Nex-7 since it's approximately the same size + weight... and since I'm planning on using the Pocket + a Hero 3 as my backcountry/mountaineering video toys of choice (teamed up probably with either a Rode video mic or an Audio Technica XY stereo mic), it's like that was specifically designed with my functional requirements in mind. It certainly doesn't hurt that a Merlin 2 costs about the same as my Gitzo Mountaineer tripod and weighs about the same, also. :)

BenHalford
04-21-2013, 02:16 AM
Sfpuk and I were talking about the metabones, but I don't see an MFT versions for sale, they are mostly NEX based right now.
The Tokina 11-16 does not have manual aperture, so any type of adapter is going to need to control it.

Yeah, the Nikon F speed booster to M43 has been delayed, they said about June/July. Will retail for 400 US but another Chinese firm are doing something similar for 200-300, that's what I read on 43rumors anyhow.

double_vision
04-21-2013, 05:34 AM
pana 7-14mm vs oly 9-18mm. Any thoughts for wide angle shot?

sfpuk
04-21-2013, 06:27 AM
pana 7-14mm vs oly 9-18mm. Any thoughts for wide angle shot?

I am thinking about the Pana 7-14 but is it possible to use a Vari ND Filter on this lens?

double_vision
04-21-2013, 01:08 PM
I am thinking about the Pana 7-14 but is it possible to use a Vari ND Filter on this lens?

Not possible. Why not oly?

dcloud
04-21-2013, 02:58 PM
Except for the f 4.0 , the 7-14 would be perfect for this cam. Its rectilinear and not fisheye.

noirist
04-21-2013, 09:47 PM
Except for the f 4.0 , the 7-14 would be perfect for this cam. Its rectilinear and not fisheye.
Perfect is a bit strong IMO. The 7-14mm has a lot of barrel distortion that will not be corrected by the BMPCC.

dcloud
04-22-2013, 12:52 AM
Perfect is a bit strong IMO. The 7-14mm has a lot of barrel distortion that will not be corrected by the BMPCC.

itll be cropped in the middle that has less distortion and at 7mm, there isnt any lens that wont have any kid of distortion at that focal length.

noirist
04-22-2013, 01:51 AM
Here's an optically corrected S16 crop of picture taken with the GH1 and 7-14mm at 7mm f4.0:
2938
Here's the same image without any optical corrections:
2939
It's workable, but the distortion and vignetting are noticable even in the crop.

Nomad
04-22-2013, 08:52 AM
Now tested the Tevidon 1:2 / 10mm and I can confirm that it covers S-16 with a safe margin.
Distortion is pretty low, the center is very sharp, corners only so-so.

Please don't battle with me for the 16 and 25 on Ebay ;-)

bitcrusher
04-22-2013, 09:47 AM
Here's an optically corrected S16 crop of picture taken with the GH1 and 7-14mm at 7mm f4.0:
Here's the same image without any optical corrections:
It's workable, but the distortion and vignetting are noticable even in the crop.

Ouch, I did not think it would be that bad. That changes things.

stip
04-22-2013, 11:37 AM
This looks like another C-mount lens option, it covers 1"

Apollo 18-90mm f1.8
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Apollo-18-90mm-f-1-8-Lens-with-C-Mount-EXLN-NR-/151024120414?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2329bd325e


I'm not really sure though if all these c-mount lenses aren't far worse image-quality wise than even decent FF / APS-C lenses. Then again I feel like the sharpness of BM cameras can use a little softening.

Nomad
04-23-2013, 08:50 AM
Tested a Kern Switar 25mm f1.4 today, a 16mm lens with very good reputation. Other than the 10mm, this one covers S-16 without vignetting. It is very sharp in the center, but outside of the 16mm area it get's quite soft. I don't have a 16mm for testing, it may just be close to vignetting by a very tight margin.

But you might be better of with those Tevidons made for 1". After all, they were made by Zeiss (east) to spy on their fellow citizens…


@ stip: Well, I'm afraid that most of the cheap ones from 1" TV cameras will not resolve HD very well. Zeiss, Schneider, Angenieux or Kern Paillard should be quite good, but they don't come that cheap.

As soon as I find some time, I'll test the 25mm Kern against a 25mm Voigt.

Robert Rogoz
04-25-2013, 10:19 PM
Kinoptik 5.7mm wide angle

Sangye
04-25-2013, 10:37 PM
Can someone comment on the SK Cinegon 10mm f/1.8? There's a very good deal on one on eBay. I wish I could buy it and try it for myself, but I'm presently overextended.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-Cinegon-1-8-10mm-C-mount-Vintage-Cine-Lens-for-Pentax-Q10-Q-/221219046259?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3381aec373

Nomad
04-26-2013, 01:31 AM
@ Robert: Sure about the Kern Switar 10mm? It vignettes here.

Robert Rogoz
04-28-2013, 08:07 PM
You are right. Info was incorrect

mcnys
04-29-2013, 03:16 AM
so sorry for my stupidity, but just to make shure, will slr magic 16mm work on pocket camera?

Nomad
04-29-2013, 04:14 AM
I don't know about the 16mm, but SLR magic 12mm will work very well, since it covers MFT.

Received and tested Zeiss Tevidon 16mm today, it covers S-16. Better coverage than the 10mm, pretty sharp into the corners with impressive center sharpness even WO. Now I have no doubt the longer Tevidons will cover too, the 35mm even covers NEX.

But in this range we have alternatives, of course. Hard to beat the Tevidons for size and weight, though.

Sangye
04-29-2013, 11:05 AM
I don't know about the 16mm, but SLR magic 12mm will work very well, since it covers MFT.

Received and tested Zeiss Tevidon 16mm today, it covers S-16. Better coverage than the 10mm, pretty sharp into the corners with impressive center sharpness even WO. Now I have no doubt the longer Tevidons will cover too, the 35mm even covers NEX.

But in this range we have alternatives, of course. Hard to beat the Tevidons for size and weight, though.

Nomad, did the Tevidon 10mm not cover S-16 without bad vignetting? Or did it just have a loss of sharpness around the edges? I'm okay with subtle vignetting and a slight loss in sharpness. It would be nice to start with a set of Tevidons, since they are so compact and affordable.

Nomad
04-30-2013, 01:21 PM
The Tevidon might be the best option at 10mm right now, it only has soft corners. If I find the time on the weekend, I'll post examples with S-16 frames from a few lenses.

Philip Lipetz
05-02-2013, 05:48 AM
Our team has a Super 16 10mm lens that should work just fine. Schneider-Kreuznach Cinegon 10mm 1:1,8. Make sure you order the the black lens, the silver can be a different design.

The Cinegon line was orignially designed to cover a 1" sensor.

stip
05-02-2013, 06:01 AM
Our team has a Super 16 10mm lens that should work just fine. Schneider-Kreuznach Cinegon 10mm 1:1,8. Make sure you order the the black lens, the silver can be a different design.

The Cinegon line was orignially designed to cover a 1" sensor.

Did you have a chance to check this lens yet? I had an eye on it but know nothing about, especially it's usability wide open.

Nomad
05-06-2013, 03:00 PM
A few more tests (simulated on a GH2):

– The Schneider Cinegon 10mm 1:1.8 in silver version (large front lens with 55mm thread) does not vignette. The widespread information that it has a smaller image circle than the black version (small front lens) is obviously wrong, which seems logical to me. It is even described in current PDFs from Schneider as being good for 1" ( http://www.alliancevision.eu/product...enses_standard ). It fit's normal, cheap c-mount adapters for infinity and is pretty sharp wide open, but it has quite some distortion. If anybody can tell me how to deactivate lens correction for the Panny 7-14 in Apple Aperture, I can lend one and compare.

– The Schneider Variogon 18-90 T2 is a heavy beast with 810 grams. It is OK wide open, only the corners lack a bit, but it improves considerably from T4. It fit's cheap adapters getting to infinity but will need support. No vignetting, smooth aperture, focus and zoom with nearly constant length. Not parfocal on my adapter, may need some shimming.

– A relatively cheap Fujinon TV Zoom 18-108 f2.5 was a surprise. It is quite soft wide open but improves considerably at 5.6, corners even better than the Schneider and it doesn't vignette. It weighs about half as much and is very thin. Smooth zoom and over 180 degree throw focus with minor change in length, but clicked aperture. Parfocal on my cheap adapter!

As soon as I get the special adapter for the Tevidon 10mm, I'll post a comparison against the Schneider. But I suppose you'll need to wring the Schneider 10mm out of my cold hands, since my sample looks like new and is so perfect apart from the distortion…

Robert Rogoz
05-07-2013, 12:13 AM
Is it possible to mount The Schneider Cinegon 10mm 1:1.8 onto MFT mount (due to size)?

Nomad
05-07-2013, 04:46 AM
Yes, other than the Tevidon, which needs machining down.

Philip Lipetz
05-07-2013, 02:47 PM
Is it possible to mount The Schneider Cinegon 10mm 1:1.8 onto MFT mount (due to size)?

It is actually a very small C Mount lens, smaller than most m4/3 lenses, that works with any C Mount adapter, no problem with lens hitting the sensor. Balck version.

rawCAM35
05-08-2013, 07:11 PM
I have a collection of ARRI 16 and 35mm lenses from my old ARRI cameras, these lenses are very light and small in size, it could work well on the Pocket Cam without rigging for on the go kind of filming, ARRI standard to MFT adapters are available, I paid $ 57.00 for the adapter.

3092

Nomad
05-08-2013, 09:29 PM
Tried a Kern Switar AR 16mm 1:1.8. It shows quite some vignetting and the corners get soft WO. From 2.8 the corners improve considerably, center sharpness is excellent from the start.

This lens is tiny, BTW!

Also compared the 10mm CZJ Tevidon 1:2 with the Schneider Cinegon 10mm 1:1.8. My first impression was right: the Schneider is a tiny monster, sharp WO into the corners and better contrast. Even stopped down to 5.6, the Schneider stays ahead, but the difference shrinks. Both have quite some barrel distortion.

A good Cinegon fetches twice the price of the Tevidon, though.

Nomad
05-09-2013, 11:50 AM
Now a Cosmicar 12.5mm 1:1.4 TV lens. While the Cosmicar 25mm is a little beauty, this one has severe barrel distortion plus vignetting and very soft sides at 1.4.
Closing down beyond 2.8 it improves considerably and get's nice around 4.

Other than the tiny 25mm this one needs machining down to reach infinity in adapters for MFT. Probably not worth the effort, but working on it is easy, since you can unscrew the ring with the c-mount. It can also be repositioned to arrange for good placement of the marks when on an adapter.

mikey1004
05-11-2013, 01:54 PM
A few more tests (simulated on a GH2):

– The Schneider Cinegon 10mm 1:1.8 in silver version (large front lens with 55mm thread) does not vignette. The widespread information that it has a smaller image circle than the black version (small front lens) is obviously wrong, which seems logical to me. It is even described in current PDFs from Schneider as being good for 1" ( http://www.alliancevision.eu/product...enses_standard ). It fit's normal, cheap c-mount adapters for infinity and is pretty sharp wide open, but it has quite some distortion. If anybody can tell me how to deactivate lens correction for the Panny 7-14 in Apple Aperture, I can lend one and compare.

Is this (http://mkoptics.net/m/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=6493&osCsid=b41ebacd81e5057371aa941878a4e1a4) the Cinegon you tested? I.e., will it work? Or would it be wiser to plunk down an extra $150 to get this one (http://www.ebay.com/itm/251215702977), if you're more certain of its functionality on a BMPC?

By the way, you deserve thanks from hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have and will come here and make good use of the information you've provided. At least one of those people really appreciates the effort you've put in to figure this stuff out and the selflessness required to share that which you've learned with all of us.

Nomad
05-11-2013, 02:16 PM
The first one is an Arriflex Cinegon I didn't test. It seems from the era of 16mm and might vignette. Plus, you'd need to add an adapter, driving up the price.

The one I tested is the second one.

Even Zeiss didn't consider their Arri/Zeiss 9.5mm Superspeed safe for S-16, since it get's very soft in the corners beyond 16mm area. So, I'd not bet on the first lens.

Glad to help – so many others have helped me when I started with this whole stuff…

Messerjocke
06-10-2013, 12:46 PM
Any opinion about Sigma s cheap m4/3 primes? They come at F2.8 with autofocus at 19, 30 and 60mm. All around 200$.

bluheat
06-17-2013, 10:50 AM
With a Leica M to m4/3 adapter, will a voigtlander 28mm F2 serve as a good 85mm full-frame equivalent for the bmpcc?

rick.lang
06-17-2013, 11:11 PM
With a Leica M to m4/3 adapter, will a voigtlander 28mm F2 serve as a good 85mm full-frame equivalent for the bmpcc?

Very close, it will have about a 25 degree horizontal angle of view compared to an AOV of about 24 degrees with an 85mm lens on a full-frame camera. The apparent focal length will be about 81mm for that 28mm lens on the BMPCC.

Gregg MacPherson
06-22-2013, 07:57 AM
Does anyone know if the Angenieux Zoom 12-120mm - Type 10x12 B 1:2.2 Lens - Arri ST With C mount adapter would work with the Pocketcam? Any issues with using it?

The AnngenieuX 12-120 was never a very sharp lens. The Zeiss 10-100 T3.1, also standard 16, from roughly the same era, was very sharp, and sometimes sells cheap. I once carefully checked the vignetting on the Zeiss and there was no simple answer. Although some were described as covering S16 above focal length 15mm, I found at T16, min focus distance, a bad vignette untill 50mm. Much better at longer focus and bigger aperture..

I'm not sure I understand what the mount is in your description above. Most of he standard 16 lenses are Arri S or B.
If you can get inexpensive Arri B and S mount adapters for the pocket camera then you are good to try them.

rawCAM35
06-22-2013, 12:19 PM
The AnngenieuX 12-120 was never a very sharp lens. The Zeiss 10-100 T3.1, also standard 16, from roughly the same era, was very sharp, and sometimes sells cheap. I once carefully checked the vignetting on the Zeiss and there was no simple answer. Although some were described as covering S16 above focal length 15mm, I found at T16, min focus distance, a bad vignette untill 50mm. Much better at longer focus and bigger aperture..

I'm not sure I understand what the mount is in your description above. Most of he standard 16 lenses are Arri S or B.
If you can get inexpensive Arri B and S mount adapters for the pocket camera then you are good to try them.

I bought Angenieux 17.5-70, covers 16, also I bought 4 of these Arri-M4/3 adapters, my Arri lenses fit nicely on these adapters:

Arri Arriflex Film Cine Movie Lens to Micro 4/3 M43 $ 45.88

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150895985225?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Liszön!
07-21-2013, 04:17 AM
None of the kowa c mount lenses will work. The diameter of these lenses is too wide to fit in the throat of the mft mount where flange of the c mount is located.

There's a guy here, who was using the 8mm Kowa on a GH1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q_rpI_xuoU

There might be no infinity focusing, I don't know.

@Edit:

He's explaining it here: LINK (http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/1145/kowa-lm8hc-full-coverage-8mm-f1.4-on-standard-m43-sensor-gf1-ep1-etc/p1)

"I took out the rear mount and glued the Super thin C-mount adapter."

Robert Rogoz
07-22-2013, 01:57 AM
That Kowa looks like crap- corners are all almost black and hellish fisheye effect combined with super bad CA. It look bad on GH1 and I am sure it would look even worst on pocket cam. I don't think it works at all- this is not footage I could sell.

Liszön!
07-22-2013, 02:21 AM
Well,

Sure it looks like shit, because it was designed for a 1" sensor.
And actually it would look better on the Pocket Cam because:

GH1 sensor: 17.3mm × 13mm
BMPCC: 12.48mm x 7.02mm

That's a massive difference. Actually if you put any other c-mount lens on a GH body, it produces mostly the same results.

I wouldn't say to rush and buy a Kowa, but probably after some modification, it could be an option. Maybe you are able to screw an adapter on the rear, not to glue it etc. It would be a nice lens to play with.

Robert Rogoz
07-22-2013, 10:06 AM
yes, but CA issue will remain for sure, so is the fisheye effect. Fisheye will be to a lesser degree with a smaller sensor, but I would imagine CA will be even more noticeable.

Liszön!
07-22-2013, 05:10 PM
Will see. The distortion is 1.2% officially, I guess you see that fisheye because of the heavy edge smearing. The center looks pretty flat to me. Yes, CA could be an issue, but then again, will see. I'm sure someone has the lens already and wish to try it on the Pocket as soon it's available.

John Brawley
07-22-2013, 05:18 PM
The AnngenieuX 12-120 was never a very sharp lens. The Zeiss 10-100 T3.1, also standard 16, from roughly the same era, was very sharp, and sometimes sells cheap. I once carefully checked the vignetting on the Zeiss and there was no simple answer. Although some were described as covering S16 above focal length 15mm, I found at T16, min focus distance, a bad vignette untill 50mm. Much better at longer focus and bigger aperture..

I'm not sure I understand what the mount is in your description above. Most of he standard 16 lenses are Arri S or B.
If you can get inexpensive Arri B and S mount adapters for the pocket camera then you are good to try them.


The Zeiss won't cover super 16 until maybe 50mm.

JB.

Eli Hershko
07-22-2013, 06:18 PM
how about this C mount lens? will it cover the sensor size?
Computar 12.5-75mm F1.2

Robert Rogoz
07-23-2013, 12:53 AM
the short answer is no. Most of c-mount zooms are for 2/3" sensor. Canon lenses with letter V are made for 1" sensor, and Fujinon with letter C. Most of Canon and Fujinon zooms focal range starts somewhere at 15mm.

Lee Saxon
08-09-2013, 05:02 PM
It's a shame not enough people are making S16 cameras to justify our own SpeedBooster! That'd be really cool.

Lee Saxon
08-18-2013, 11:26 PM
A few more tests (simulated on a GH2):

– The Schneider Cinegon 10mm 1:1.8 in silver version (large front lens with 55mm thread) does not vignette. The widespread information that it has a smaller image circle than the black version (small front lens) is obviously wrong, which seems logical to me

I have read, though I can't find the source now and obviously don't know how reliable it is, that there are two silver versions, one which has the same I.C. as the black version (presumably the one you had) and an earlier one with a smaller I.C. That would explain the confusion if true.

alex1
08-19-2013, 10:31 AM
Can anyone tell me if any of these lenses will work throughout the focal range on the pocket camera?

KERN Vario switar Zoom 12.5-100mm f : 2

ANGENIEUX ZOOM 2.2/12.5-75MM C-MOUNT LENS

ANGENIEUX ZOOM F 9.5-95mm 1:2.2

ZEISS VARIO-SONNAR CINE ZOOM LENS 2/12.5-75MM



Thanks.

Robert Rogoz
08-19-2013, 03:50 PM
You'll have to find out which once were made or adopted to S16. Usually C-mount is for 16mm only, which will not cover S16 sensor. There are zooms with C-mount for 1" old video cameras, and they will cover S16. You can buy them on eBay for relatively cheap. Here is a link to the list of Canon lenses: http://www.c-mountlens.com/lenses/c-mount-lens-brands-a-e/canon/

mikey1004
08-19-2013, 08:46 PM
This (http://mkoptics.net/m/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=3097&osCsid=b41ebacd81e5057371aa941878a4e1a4) looks like it could be a steal -- assuming it's one of the Cinegons whose image circle is big enough. Can anyone confirm that for me before somebody else snatches it up?

alex1
08-19-2013, 09:05 PM
You'll have to find out which once were made or adopted to S16. Usually C-mount is for 16mm only, which will not cover S16 sensor. There are zooms with C-mount for 1" old video cameras, and they will cover S16. You can buy them on eBay for relatively cheap. Here is a link to the list of Canon lenses: http://www.c-mountlens.com/lenses/c-mount-lens-brands-a-e/canon/

Thanks for the link. Just to confirm, the 1" lenses will cover the 12.48mm x 7.02mm sensor of the pocket camera?

Lee Saxon
08-19-2013, 11:27 PM
I just purchased an Angenieux 17-68mm f/2.2. There are four versions of this lens, "Type L1" "Type L2" and "Type L3" in silver and the later "Type 4x17B" in black which is what I purchased. The seller claims to have confirmation from the reliable White House Audio Visual that my version, at least, covers S-16. I have emailed them to ask about the earlier ones (since the "Type L1" came out in 1958, I'm guessing at least that one is a "no"). I will post again when I have confirmation.

Nomad
08-20-2013, 04:56 AM
@mikey1004
No, that one won't cover.

Philip Lipetz
08-20-2013, 05:50 AM
This (http://mkoptics.net/m/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=3097&osCsid=b41ebacd81e5057371aa941878a4e1a4) looks like it could be a steal -- assuming it's one of the Cinegons whose image circle is big enough. Can anyone confirm that for me before somebody else snatches it up?

Many people report that this version of the Schnieder 10mm will not cover S16, but that the version with the wide front lens element will.

mikey1004
08-20-2013, 08:48 AM
Many people report that this version f the chnieder 10mm will not cover S16, but that the version with the with front lens element will.
Mm. Bummer. So then this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-10-1-8-Cinegon-C-mount-12175512-/280886652311?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item4166262d97) must be the silver version that DOES cover, correct?

alex1
08-20-2013, 11:13 AM
Does anyone know if this lens will cover the area of the pocket cam?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-ORIGINAL-CANON-12-120mm-F2-2-C-16-MACRO-ZOOM-LENS-C10X12-FLUORITE-/160875690598?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

Nomad
08-20-2013, 04:02 PM
@mikey1004
No, it's the one below for 750 …

(silver rear, large black front)

@alex1
Only the Canons with the letter V in front of the version cover, this is a "C".

Philip Lipetz
08-20-2013, 06:04 PM
Mm. Bummer. So then this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schneider-10-1-8-Cinegon-C-mount-12175512-/280886652311?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item4166262d97) must be the silver version that DOES cover, correct?

no

Philip Lipetz
08-20-2013, 06:06 PM
This one will cover S16, as I now see Nomad said.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eoorider/6803038592/

Robert Rogoz
08-21-2013, 03:43 PM
Does anyone know if this lens will cover the area of the pocket cam?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-ORIGINAL-CANON-12-120mm-F2-2-C-16-MACRO-ZOOM-LENS-C10X12-FLUORITE-/160875690598?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123
Yes it will cover, but there is no way of attaching to MFT mount at the moment.

alex1
08-21-2013, 05:17 PM
Yes it will cover, but there is no way of attaching to MFT mount at the moment.

Thanks for the reply. Also how do you know if it will cover the pocket cam and why is there no way of attaching to MFT?

mikey1004
08-22-2013, 12:05 PM
Continuing the search for a 10mm lens, I saw that that EOSHD confirmed the usability of the Kern Switar 10mm f/1.6. So I dive into ebay and, whaddaya know, there are several versions for sale. These (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kern-Pailliard-SWITAR-10MM-C-MOUNT-LENS-f-1-6-For-BOLEX-/390641095093?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item5af40611b5) two (http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-Mount-16mm-Switar-f-1-6-10mm-Kern-Lens-/350856282974?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item51b0aa035e), to be specific. Anybody have any knowledge as to the usability of either of these potentially wonderful little pieces of glass? Thanks a bunch for the help, guys! You're life-savers.

Robert Rogoz
08-22-2013, 01:44 PM
Thanks for the reply. Also how do you know if it will cover the pocket cam and why is there no way of attaching to MFT?
This lens was made for cameras with 1" sensor. These lenses have "fluorite" glass, they have opinion of being one of the sharpest lenses ever produced. However the problem is the mount, because nobody makes an adapter for MFT. They cave 2 mount types, there is a link to another one http://www.ebay.com/itm/290963230804?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2661. The link I provided has mount very similar to AAton mount, so maybe with some fiddling, it could be mounted to MFT on Pocket. Here is a list of the lenses made by Canon, that will cover S16 sensor: http://www.c-mountlens.com/lenses/c-mount-lens-brands-a-e/canon/.
I bought Canon TV Zoom V10x15 2.8/15-150mm, still don't have Pocket camera to test. There are 2 types of these lenses, I bought one with housing around, for remote control, gutted the housing. The advantage of this is, that you get your focus and zoom already geared for FF. Here is a link to ebay listing of the lens I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261087268682?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Fresno Bob
08-22-2013, 02:49 PM
Continuing the search for a 10mm lens, I saw that that EOSHD confirmed the usability of the Kern Switar 10mm f/1.6. So I dive into ebay and, whaddaya know, there are several versions for sale. These (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kern-Pailliard-SWITAR-10MM-C-MOUNT-LENS-f-1-6-For-BOLEX-/390641095093?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item5af40611b5) two (http://www.ebay.com/itm/C-Mount-16mm-Switar-f-1-6-10mm-Kern-Lens-/350856282974?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item51b0aa035e), to be specific. Anybody have any knowledge as to the usability of either of these potentially wonderful little pieces of glass? Thanks a bunch for the help, guys! You're life-savers.

I was putting aside to get one of these lenses anyway - and this recent wave of posts about it because of the pocket has driven prices through the roof in the UK. Not happy

Robert Rogoz
08-22-2013, 03:21 PM
I was putting aside to get one of these lenses anyway - and this recent wave of posts about it because of the pocket has driven prices through the roof in the UK. Not happy
well it's how it goes. 2 years ago you could purchase Canon 8-64mm on eBay for under 1K, now they fetch again a prime coin.

Nomad
08-22-2013, 03:42 PM
That Kern Switar is a RX version, calculated for the Bolex camera with a reflex viewfinder. It'll be soft on any other camera. Get a non-RX version!

Fresno Bob
08-22-2013, 04:05 PM
Does anyone know of a good online guide for 'machining' a lens/adaptor?

I've got a C mount Cosmicar TV Lens 12.5mm.
From what I understand, it won't fit onto a C mount > M43 adaptor without some work.

I don't have a lathe, so will have to file by hand.
Never done it before, so would appreciate if someone could give any advice!

Robert Rogoz
08-22-2013, 08:22 PM
I don't think machining by hand will be that easy, even with 7075. Your best bet would be some for of drill press with maybe a dremel tool? Whatever you do wear safety goggles.

nico
08-22-2013, 09:46 PM
This lens was made for cameras with 1" sensor. These lenses have "fluorite" glass, they have opinion of being one of the sharpest lenses ever produced. However the problem is the mount, because nobody makes an adapter for MFT. They cave 2 mount types, there is a link to another one http://www.ebay.com/itm/290963230804?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2661. The link I provided has mount very similar to AAton mount, so maybe with some fiddling, it could be mounted to MFT on Pocket. Here is a list of the lenses made by Canon, that will cover S16 sensor: http://www.c-mountlens.com/lenses/c-mount-lens-brands-a-e/canon/.
I bought Canon TV Zoom V10x15 2.8/15-150mm, still don't have Pocket camera to test. There are 2 types of these lenses, I bought one with housing around, for remote control, gutted the housing. The advantage of this is, that you get your focus and zoom already geared for FF. Here is a link to ebay listing of the lens I bought: http://www.ebay.com/itm/261087268682?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Would you care to explain how, for instance that 15-150mm, how you'll make it work the Pocket's m43 mount? I've heard that some C-mounts won't even fit in a C-mount to m43 adapter, and even if they do, they might not reach infinity and need some modifying to make it work. Thanks!

Robert Rogoz
08-22-2013, 10:48 PM
Would you care to explain how, for instance that 15-150mm, how you'll make it work the Pocket's m43 mount? I've heard that some C-mounts won't even fit in a C-mount to m43 adapter, and even if they do, they might not reach infinity and need some modifying to make it work. Thanks!
Most lenses were made for 2/3 or 1/2" sensors, but there are lenses for older 1" sensors. Canon lenses made for 1" sensor will start with V or PV, 2/3" starts with J or YJ. Fujinon 1" lenses are marked as C. Some lenses are also called TV-16, they are also made for 1" sensor. Lenses made for 1" will cover entire S16 size, 2/3" will not, unless you use a doubler. All the 2/3" B4 lenses with a doubler will also easily cover S16.
As far as C-mounnt lenses, what you have to make sure their back diameter is below 36.7mm. The lens I provided link for (15-150 F2.8) is 35.1, so it will fit. So basically you'll be able to attach this lens to MFT via MFT to C-mount with infinity focus. So as long as the lens is for 1" sensor and the diameter is below 36.7mm, there is no issue.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261250166661?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Nomad
08-23-2013, 05:47 AM
It's not about flange distance, but diameter of the rear of the lens. Needs to look something like this (the milled area shows the brass):

4191

Robert Rogoz
08-23-2013, 12:42 PM
Thes are the pictures of the back of the lens of the Canon 15-150 lens:
4193

Robert Rogoz
08-23-2013, 12:44 PM
There is another possibility of a decently priced WA lens here: http://www.thorlabs.us/Thorcat/21900/MVL8M1-AutoCADPDF.pdf
http://www.thorlabs.us/thorproduct.cfm?partnumber=MVL8M1

nico
08-23-2013, 04:17 PM
Most lenses were made for 2/3 or 1/2" sensors, but there are lenses for older 1" sensors. Canon lenses made for 1" sensor will start with V or PV, 2/3" starts with J or YJ. Fujinon 1" lenses are marked as C. Some lenses are also called TV-16, they are also made for 1" sensor. Lenses made for 1" will cover entire S16 size, 2/3" will not, unless you use a doubler. All the 2/3" B4 lenses with a doubler will also easily cover S16.
As far as C-mounnt lenses, what you have to make sure their back diameter is below 36.7mm. The lens I provided link for (15-150 F2.8) is 35.1, so it will fit. So basically you'll be able to attach this lens to MFT via MFT to C-mount with infinity focus. So as long as the lens is for 1" sensor and the diameter is below 36.7mm, there is no issue.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261250166661?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Is that 15-150mm f2.8 V10x15 similar to the 15-150mm f2 that goes by the name of "Canon TV PV10X15B2"? Is it like a version 2?

Robert Rogoz
08-23-2013, 05:05 PM
Is that 15-150mm f2.8 V10x15 similar to the 15-150mm f2 that goes by the name of "Canon TV PV10X15B2"? Is it like a version 2?
I might be mistaken, but I think PV lenses will have mostly Canon Cine mount. It looks very similar to Aaton mount, but I am not sure if you could mount it via adapter. There are MFT to Aatom S16 adapters, so if it fits you'll have killer glass, but if it doesn't you'll be out quite a lot of cash.

chrisso
08-23-2013, 06:59 PM
So basically you'll be able to attach this lens to MFT via MFT to C-mount with infinity focus. So as long as the lens is for 1" sensor and the diameter is below 36.7mm, there is no issue.


So Canon TV16 with C-Mount is OK?

nico
08-24-2013, 01:31 AM
I might be mistaken, but I think PV lenses will have mostly Canon Cine mount. It looks very similar to Aaton mount, but I am not sure if you could mount it via adapter. There are MFT to Aatom S16 adapters, so if it fits you'll have killer glass, but if it doesn't you'll be out quite a lot of cash.

Could it possibly be a B4 mount? I've been checking out some other Canon Tv Zooms, and the ones with a B4 mount look a lot like the PV10X15B2 mount.

John Brawley
08-24-2013, 01:42 AM
I might be mistaken, but I think PV lenses will have mostly Canon Cine mount.

Not to be confused with PV mount lenses. As in Panavision Mount.

4215

A 17mm Panavision VINTAGE lens mounted to a BMCC mft with a HotRod PV mount adaptor.

jb

nico
08-26-2013, 01:43 AM
This is the PV10x15B2 Canon 15-150mm f2 that I bought on ebay. Can anyone identify the mount? I've been googling everything but can't find anything about it. I've only come to the conclusion that it looks a lot a like a b4 mount.

4235
4236

Joshua Cadmium
08-26-2013, 04:19 AM
This is the PV10x15B2 Canon 15-150mm f2 that I bought on ebay. Can anyone identify the mount? I've been googling everything but can't find anything about it. I've only come to the conclusion that it looks a lot a like a b4 mount.

First, are you sure that it is not B4 mount? I didn't think it was, as I believe I heard that Sony created that mount standard, and I don't think they were around in the camera business when these lenses came out, but I just wanted to be sure, since they do look quite similar in the pictures I've seen.

I did a bunch of research on the PV lenses, and it looks like they were around back in the 70s. I attached a Canon advertisement from 1976 I ran across.

I then looked at cameras around that time and I ran into a Bosch / Fernseh KCN92 that looks like it has one of those attached (see the attached picture.) It also looks like (in the pictures I ran across) RCA cameras (like the TK-76) around that time used the same lenses.

I could not find any information about what the exact mount was, though. I think I saw something that said the Bosch cameras used a bayonet mount (I could be wrong, though) but not what type of bayonet mount. I'm guessing that these cameras used a completely different mount that is now obsolete. I hope I'm wrong though, and you find some type of adapter. I did read somewhere that someone used a PV lens on a more modern Ikegami camera, but the lens could have been modified to fit on that mount at some point, as the B3 Ikegami mount is completely different.

Robert Rogoz
08-26-2013, 04:01 PM
This is the PV10x15B2 Canon 15-150mm f2 that I bought on ebay. Can anyone identify the mount? I've been googling everything but can't find anything about it. I've only come to the conclusion that it looks a lot a like a b4 mount.

4235
4236

Like I said, it's most likely Canon Cine mount. It's very close to Aaton S16 mount, but I am not sure it Aaton will work or not. B4 is for 2/3" lenses only, so most likely it's not B4. And yes, PV lens and PV mount are two DIFFERENT things all together.

nico
08-26-2013, 08:13 PM
Hmm, I see. Do you guys think it's worth a try to maybe take the mount apart and try to attach something else instead? Maybe try to measure the flange distance and do some sort of DIY PL mount or something?

Even if I didn't do it myself, is it even possible, or is there any company who'll do professional custom mount jobs?

Robert Rogoz
08-27-2013, 12:27 AM
Nico, contact peter at rplens dot com. He probably can give you a good advice.

Worzel Gummidge
09-22-2013, 09:20 PM
This nice Kowa lens just arrived. Great clean and sharp image, covers GH3 sensor, but so far macro only. Can't get the thing to focus infinity because of the rear plate not going into the adapter deep enough. Any ideas? Too tricky to drill hole into the adapter as the position is right on the edge of the adapter recess. Must be a way round it. The Metabone style adapter is the right way but 2mm too thick. Can liquid nails be srong enough to try and glue an adapter on if I removed the rear screw plate?

4648

Robert Rogoz
09-22-2013, 09:58 PM
Is this for 1" ot 4/3? Anw what brand of MFT to C-mount are you using?

Worzel Gummidge
09-22-2013, 10:00 PM
1" format. Tried the very thin Chinese adapters and the Metabones one.

Nomad
09-22-2013, 10:29 PM
You'll need to machine down the rear plate of the lens. The adapters are too thin to do this, they'll fall apart.

Worzel Gummidge
09-22-2013, 10:30 PM
What about drilling holes into the adapter to line up with the 3 on the back of the lens and remove that silver plate?

Augusto Alves da Silva
11-05-2013, 09:43 PM
Just for clarification that active micro four thirds mount only apply for changing aperture/iris and provide image stabilization. There's no autofocus for this camera using native lenses, which is fine for video.

On the BMPCC the focus button works ok. Just press it and it will focus.

Augusto Alves da Silva
11-05-2013, 09:46 PM
I have an Angenieux Zoom 12-120mm in storage with all my old 16mm gear. Before I packed it up I considered a super 16 conversion. It covered from about 14 to 120mm, and with the Century Precision 1.6 wide adapter the lens should get back to a 10mm. Glad I still have it now that there is an HD camera coming out to put it on. You will no longer be able to call it a Pocketcam however.

Here is one that just sold for $110. Better get one while they are cheap, but beware the rear element is very clean. I saw a lot of damaged lenses before I found a clean one.
http://www.ebay.com/csc/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Angenieux+Zoom+12-120mm&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

I have the 12-120mm but it doesn´t work....I wouldn´t call it vigneting it is more a circle around the sensor...ehehe. I had I hopes for it but no way....

Joewi
11-14-2013, 03:26 AM
Can anyone tell me if any of these lenses will work throughout the focal range on the pocket camera?

ANGENIEUX ZOOM F 9.5-95mm 1:2.2



I own this lens and it doesn't work, some vignetting under 40mm, okay for widescreen work.

Nomad
11-18-2013, 02:26 PM
Does anybody know the image circle of Fuji "E" TV lenses?

idealsceneprod
12-20-2013, 12:14 AM
Happy to report that the Wollensak Revere 1" F2.5 lens covers the whole sensor of the BMPCC. This is a 25mm lens.

This is a parfocal lens, so no focus ring, and if you screw it all the way in, it only starts to focus about 6ft in front of the lens (everything else is in focus), but the more you unscrew it, the closer the focus gets. I'm probably going to buy some sort of a spacer. It's fine for steadycam work, or Establishing shots where you don't need shallow depth of field. Paid $26 on eBay for it.

Here is photo proof - it was late at night and almost no light in the room, so ISO was 1600 and it looks real grainy.

6039

tecel
12-21-2013, 03:55 PM
Here's an optically corrected S16 crop of picture taken with the GH1 and 7-14mm at 7mm f4.0:
2938
Here's the same image without any optical corrections:
2939
It's workable, but the distortion and vignetting are noticable even in the crop.

And that is really bad... I have the Zuiko 12mm 2.0 and the barrel distortion is anoying :-( Is there a way to correct that in post by Resolve? Lightroom has features like that, didn t find them in Resolve yet. Anyway I loose quality. A 800$ prime should have a better performance. That s why you buy primes, right?

Useg Diaz-Granados
12-21-2013, 04:24 PM
Happy to report that the Wollensak Revere 1" F2.5 lens covers the whole sensor of the BMPCC. This is a 25mm lens.

This is a parfocal lens, so no focus ring, and if you screw it all the way in, it only starts to focus about 6ft in front of the lens (everything else is in focus), but the more you unscrew it, the closer the focus gets. I'm probably going to buy some sort of a spacer. It's fine for steadycam work, or Establishing shots where you don't need shallow depth of field. Paid $26 on eBay for it.

Here is photo proof - it was late at night and almost no light in the room, so ISO was 1600 and it looks real grainy.


I took a chance and bought the Wollensack 17mm Cine Raptar 2.7 but have not been able to test it due to mailing delays that have hampered the delivery of my MFT to C-Mount adapters.

I Hope my lens covers the sensor as well as yours cover yours.


Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

Useg Diaz-Granados
12-22-2013, 09:39 AM
I am looking for a zoom within the 14-85mm range that is not that heavy and wonder if anyone tried the FUJINON 14-70mm F2 for use with the Pocket Camera?

Any other lightweight zoom lenses that anyone can recommend for use with the Pocket that cover that range?


Sincerely,

Useg Diaz-Granados

idealsceneprod
12-23-2013, 10:29 AM
@Useg ... good luck! I hope it does too, because I also got one of those on eBay... it just hasn't arrived yet. They're estimating Dec 24 when it arrives. They shipped it on the 17th... :(

So, good luck to both of us!

idealsceneprod
12-24-2013, 12:32 PM
Very happy to report that my Wollensak Raptar 17mm wide angle f2.7 works great on my BMPCC. The lens is tiny which makes operation more challenging, and the it's not the fastest thing on wheels, but it's decently wide and hence camera shake is greatly minimized making handheld footage completely usable.

I'll have to post some footage when I have time (lens just arrived this morning), but at first glance it looked great!

Nisse-Tuta
12-25-2013, 06:35 PM
I just bought a Tamron/Sony branded 18-108/2.5. I will get back to the forum with some impressions when I get it but I guess it will be like the Canon 18-108/2.5.
http://forumbilder.se/CGEUE/photo4.JPG (http://forumbilder.se/CGEUE/photo4)

KARLS
12-26-2013, 12:24 PM
I would like to know if someone successfully uses the Kowa Lenses (1"): http://www.kowa.eu/lenses/en/LM6HC.5423.php
on BMPCC or there are problems with 'C-mount/adapter' ? thnks.
;-)

Steve Wake
12-26-2013, 12:42 PM
There are a couple of long threads on those lenses. Member kazkioken uses them and has posted some great footage. Search his posts for the threads or search Kowa. Also check Kowa's pdf diagrams available online for measurements of the base diameter.

Kowa is also planning to release cinema type MFT mount lenses which are probably based on their next-size larger line of industrial lenses.

Robert Rogoz
12-26-2013, 02:58 PM
Kowa 6mm works.
Probably this one works as well: http://www.rmaelectronics.com/azure-photonics-0614-mlm-1-6-5mm-f1-4-manual-iris-c-mount-lens-1-3-megapixel/. This lens is fixed focal length, so most likely you'll need to use F5.6 or higher, in order to have everything in focus. It's cheap and it should work well for landscape shots and panoramas.

carlmart
12-26-2013, 04:10 PM
OK, maybe I'm lazy, but can someone tell me on what page are the zoom lenses?

All I could see were prime lenses.

Robert Rogoz
12-27-2013, 01:17 AM
http://www.c-mountlens.com/lenses/c-mount-lens-brands-a-e/canon/

carlmart
12-27-2013, 03:45 AM
OK, I meant non C-mount lenses. I hate C-mounts.

Nomad
12-31-2013, 10:26 AM
What's wrong with them? Recently got me a Canon TV Zoom V6x16 2/16.5-95mm for a decent price and it's quite a good lens.

OTOH, I still like the Schneider Variogon 18-90mm T2 better. More compact and a bit lighter, very pretty rendering. The Canon is more 'sober' in rendering, if that makes any sense. Both can be found between 200 and 350 $, depending on condition.

If you strictly want PL-mount glass, expect to spend serious dollars, well beyond the price of your camera.

Brian@202020
12-31-2013, 06:03 PM
Well I just prepped my BMPCC today at the local rental house with the CineMagic Snorkel System. The job is on Jan 2nd, and I'll take pictures of the set up. So I guess the CineMagic Snorkel System is proven to work with the BMPCC :)

carlmart
01-01-2014, 05:48 AM
What's wrong with them? Recently got me a Canon TV Zoom V6x16 2/16.5-95mm for a decent price and it's quite a good lens.

OTOH, I still like the Schneider Variogon 18-90mm T2 better. More compact and a bit lighter, very pretty rendering. The Canon is more 'sober' in rendering, if that makes any sense. Both can be found between 200 and 350 $, depending on condition.

If you strictly want PL-mount glass, expect to spend serious dollars, well beyond the price of your camera.

Of course I'm not considering PL-mount, but I prefer bayonet mounts, like Nikon or Canon.

I had my quota of screwing-unscrewing C-mount lenses in my 16mm film years, with the Bolex, and using Arriflex and Eclair was a relief. You have be very careful when you manipulate the lenses, or you can ruin the threads, so exchanging lenses takes a lot of time. I think I am talking from experience.

Nisse-Tuta
01-01-2014, 10:49 AM
Of course I'm not considering PL-mount, but I prefer bayonet mounts, like Nikon or Canon.

I had my quota of screwing-unscrewing C-mount lenses in my 16mm film years, with the Bolex, and using Arriflex and Eclair was a relief. You have be very careful when you manipulate the lenses, or you can ruin the threads, so exchanging lenses takes a lot of time. I think I am talking from experience.

Cant you just buy an adapter for each one?

Nomad
01-01-2014, 12:20 PM
Absolutely, that's my solution too. These adapters are cheap, but even the more expensive ones would need shimming, so I pair an adapter with every lens, shim it carefully and never separate them again.

Flange distance spot-on and fast changing!

The only considerations why I'm not even glueing them together is respect for some of my classic beauties and the fact that some adapters might wear out over time.

Robert Rogoz
01-01-2014, 01:32 PM
Of course I'm not considering PL-mount, but I prefer bayonet mounts, like Nikon or Canon.

I had my quota of screwing-unscrewing C-mount lenses in my 16mm film years, with the Bolex, and using Arriflex and Eclair was a relief. You have be very careful when you manipulate the lenses, or you can ruin the threads, so exchanging lenses takes a lot of time. I think I am talking from experience.
Just buy adapters for each lens.

Brian@202020
01-02-2014, 09:48 PM
As promised, here is a couple pictures of my BMPCC with the Cinemagic Revolution Snorkel System attached.

6254

6253

Tom C. Hall
01-04-2014, 04:49 PM
As promised, here is a couple pictures of my BMPCC with the Cinemagic Revolution Snorkel System attached.

6254

6253

Why? The lens height of the snorkel is basically the same as a naked pocket

Brian@202020
01-04-2014, 08:03 PM
I needed it because the front element on the snorkel is less than 3/4 of an inch making small objects look huge as I slide by. It was a jewelry shoot.

Robert Rogoz
01-04-2014, 11:13 PM
Looks like some chinese outfit managed to mount Kowa 8mm to MFT mount. The advantage of this over 6mm model is, that 8mm can accept filters.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blackmagic-pocket-BMPCC-lens-8mm-f1-4-Wide-angle-Fast-cine-lens-KOWA-MFT-mount-/221346433419?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item338946898b

AZScott
01-06-2014, 01:16 PM
I have this exact Kowa 8mm, and have been struggling to decide the best way to adapt to the BMPCC, as the rear barrel is wider than any C/MFT adapter I've run across. Not just the silver mount part, but the actual black barrel, rearward of the focus ring (the bottom section with a white line in this photo (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Blackmagic-pocket-BMPCC-lens-8mm-f1-4-Wide-angle-Fast-cine-lens-KOWA-MFT-mount-/00/s/MTAwMFg4NTI=/z/q7cAAOxyVaBSu92a/$_57.JPG)).

It appears from this photo (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Blackmagic-pocket-BMPCC-lens-8mm-f1-4-Wide-angle-Fast-cine-lens-KOWA-MFT-mount-/00/s/Nzk5WDEwMDA=/z/FM0AAOxydlFSu92s/$_57.JPG), they've drilled straight through the adapter to use the Kowa's existing mounting screw points (but not the original screws). Edit: and what's with all the crappy-looking stuff around each hole? Why not do a clean counter-sink with beveled screw heads? This could be a definite advantage to lathing down the silver knurled / C-Mount back part of the lens like in this YT video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UftqwZeKNug).

In fact, the actual lens would not need to be modified at all - that is exciting! Anyone know by the looks of the adapter which one they've most likely used? It looks strikingly similar to the M42/C-mount (http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/0/7/5/2/9/2/webimg/720635315_o.jpg?nc=77) combo adapters I've seen on ebay (http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/0/7/5/2/9/2/webimg/720635315_o.jpg?nc=77).

Edit 2: You'd still have to be mighty careful with filters, as the front element of the lens is really bulbous, and protrudes well into the threads - darn near flush to the front (http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Blackmagic-pocket-BMPCC-lens-8mm-f1-4-Wide-angle-Fast-cine-lens-KOWA-MFT-mount-/00/s/MTAwMFg4NTI=/z/q7cAAOxyVaBSu92a/$_57.JPG), in fact. Most likely not a problem if you're using a step-ring to a larger diameter filter, but something to be aware of.

Bern Caughey
01-06-2014, 04:02 PM
Looks like some chinese outfit managed to mount Kowa 8mm to MFT mount. The advantage of this over 6mm model is, that 8mm can accept filters.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blackmagic-pocket-BMPCC-lens-8mm-f1-4-Wide-angle-Fast-cine-lens-KOWA-MFT-mount-/221346433419?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item338946898b

Robert,

Thanks for sharing. Just ordered the Kowa 8mm to test out.

Also thanks to AZScott for their thoughts.

Best,
Bern

Robert Rogoz
01-07-2014, 02:03 PM
Also another option ( I intend on purchasing in the next couple of months) is this lens:
http://www.rmaelectronics.com/azure-photonics-0614-mlm-1-6-5mm-f1-4-manual-iris-c-mount-lens-1-3-megapixel/
It's 6.5mm, fits easily into MFT adapter and is a fixed focus.

jpblack
02-07-2014, 07:44 AM
Has anyone tried Arri standard mount lenses on the BMPCC? I'm facing a dilemma on how to mount them, with a pretty solid PL adapter to the PL mounted BMPCC, or with a straight Arri Std to m4/3 adapter? What scares me in the first solution is the probability of needing shimming, plus the second seems easier and suits the small size of these lenses, does anyone have any personal experience? Thanks

haavard
02-07-2014, 07:50 AM
I'm using an Arri std converted to pl lens on BMPCC with a PL mount adapter and it worked perfectly out of the box.
The only thing to keep in mind is that some of the older STD primes are quite small and a PL mount is quite large, so it might not be the most practical solution for some.

jpblack
02-07-2014, 08:01 AM
Thanks haavard, for example the old Zeiss 8mm f/2 is tiny, not that practical as you said :)

Nomad
02-07-2014, 08:40 AM
And an Arri Standard adapter is cheap, around 40-60 U$. Unfortunately that old Zeiss 8mm is a N-16, not DS-16. It vignettes quite a bit.

jpblack
02-07-2014, 08:43 AM
Sure, the price of the Arri adapter is good, that's something to consider as well. Have you tried one yet Nomad? I'm hoping the vignetting won't be that bad, am I being too optimistic? :)

Edit: Found this PL adapter, the picture doesn't help selling the product.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Adapter-to-converting-the-old-Arri-standard-lens-on-Arri-PL-Mount-/111248202432?pt=UK_Photography_Movie_Camera_Access ories&hash=item19e6e8dac0

carlmart
02-08-2014, 05:36 AM
Do you still find affordable Arri lenses around?

That 8mm was probably for 16mm instead of super 16, as it should be, is it not?

There might not be that many second-hand to look for.

jpblack
02-08-2014, 07:51 AM
I happen to have free access to the lens inventory of the biggest & oldest cine rental company in my country, so that's where I get most of the lenses..
The 8mm was for 16mm but as you can see from the following video it doesn't look that bad on the pocket http://vimeo.com/77872653

carlmart
02-09-2014, 05:21 AM
Very nice short!

It really shows what the Pocket can do and what the lens can do. I wonder what would happen with a Speedbooster, if one was available.

Some shots, two or three, look a bit soft in focus. Why is that?

jpblack
02-09-2014, 06:46 AM
This video made me want to check it out, wide enough, and I like the way it resolves and its softness, it has a 16mm look :) But I didn't shoot this video so you'll have to ask him in Vimeo, my guess is he missed focus, not sure which scenes you are referring to, there are several "soft" ones, but still nice :)

carlmart
02-09-2014, 07:02 AM
The wide shot with the train far away and the second with the characters walking look slightly out of focus, even when compared with the fourth shot of the train coming towards the camera.

Maybe it was a missed focus, which is slightly difficult on an 8mm lens. It looks like a filter perhaps, or a lens not completely locked. I'm talking garbage perhaps, but those do slightly less sharp than most of the shots.

Where's the vignetting that was mentioned?

jpblack
02-09-2014, 07:11 AM
I'll let you know when I check it out for myself, until then I can just speculate like yourself :) The first shot stood out to me as well, also in case he didn't use a filter maybe he had to stop down enough and diffraction made the footage super soft. Vignetting is slightly visible in the top corners, but I guess he cropped a bit or corrected it in raw with software.

Worzel Gummidge
02-09-2014, 09:40 AM
I like this on the Pocket. Cosmicar 12.5mm 1.4. Nice clean image from it.

7082

Worzel Gummidge
02-09-2014, 09:50 AM
...and it's 1.9 cousin.

7083

carlmart
02-09-2014, 12:17 PM
Pity those Cosmicars are C-mount, as I abhor that mount from my 16mm Bolex times. Never looked back since I got to use Eclair or Arri bayonet mounts.

Besides threads being a too delicate thing, prone to any kind of dirt, every time you insert it you run the risk of not being as it should be. The proper way would be to put a C-to-MFT adapter on the lens, and leave it there forever.

I've just seen a Vimeo video of a Pocket with a 12.5mm Cosmicar, and it doesn't look bad. Not as good as the Arri 8mm, but not something to hide away:

http://vimeo.com/77914383

Robert Rogoz
02-09-2014, 01:53 PM
Does this one cover entire sensor, without dark corners?


...and it's 1.9 cousin.

7083

Nomad
02-12-2014, 04:33 PM
Finally had the chance to test a few serious (and expensive) PL-mount S-16 zooms on the GH2 (with framing for the BMPCC) and used my trusted Schneider Variogon 18-90 for comparison (yes, I know, it's not wide).

A Canon 8-64 (probably the most expensive on the 2nd hand market) was really disappointing. Massive distortion at 8mm, on par with the 8mm 1.4 Kowa (which was sharper at f1.4 than the zoom at T4.0), but massive field curvature too. Focussing to the center made the corners soft and focussing to the corners improved those a bit, but made the center soft. Even stopping down a bit didn't help. Plus, it's 8mm is more like 10mm in practice, since it doesn't focus as close as a wide prime and it's so damn big and long – the angle is obviously not calculated from the sensor plane, but from the front. I could get as wide or even a tad wider with my Cinegon 10mm (which was sharper with less CA and nearly no distortion). Sure, it's getting a bit better when zooming to 12mm, distortion is reduced quite a bit, but what's appealing at first view with this lens is the wide end. Plus, the one I tested was quite yellow. At 2,000 grams and about 1 dollar per gram – forget it!

The Canon 11,5-138 weighs about 1.700 grams and should be a bit more interesting if you can find it for a good price. It's getting acceptable around T4, but wide open (T2.5 or so) it can't hold a candle to the Lumix 12-35 at f2.8 resolution wise.

The extreme Canon 11-165 (around 2 kg again) is really stretching it, only good from medium to tele. But who needs such a tele on the BMPCC? Maybe for wildlife, OK, but you'd need a massive tripod then…

A Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 11-110 T2.2 was the shortest one, but massive too. At least it had a more predictable distortion than the Canons, being pincushion all the way through. No field curvature either, but resolution WO wasn't impressive. Even at T4 it didn't get as good as the Lumix at f2.8. Shortest focus is quite long at 1.5m and between 13-28mm it get's quite dark in the corners at some apertures – labeling it "S-16" is stretching things a bit.

Of course, they all have serious cine mechanics, but the also breathe massively all over. These lenses were made for news, sports or wildlife and, above all, for 16mm film.

My advice would be: don't hunt for such massive vintage cine zooms these days if you don't own one yet. They are too massive for the BMPCC and they won't resolve future 4K sensors in small cameras. The Schneider Variogon can be found much cheaper, weighs only 850 grams and has serious mechanics too. It's resolution isn't too impressive either, but it has less CA, distortion and vignetting (the latter compared to the Zeiss only).

If you need something wide, hunt for good vintage primes as described here before or get modern glass plus SB, RJ or Mitakon or the tiny Kowa lenses.

carlmart
02-13-2014, 06:29 AM
Very good evaluation, Nomad. I expected a little more from the Zeiss 11-110, which I believe is the Super 16 version of the original 16mm 10-100, which was sold with Arriflex 16mm cameras.

The other lens that was very much used back then was the Angenieux 9.5-57, which was a very good lens and much better than the 12-120 and 9.5-95 most people used. I think some people did try the 9.5-57, but not on the Pocket, AFAIK.

There was another lens that was very much used in 16 times, which was the Kinoptik prime 9.5", but I wonder if it won't vignette for S16 or the Pocket.

In any case it's interesting that the Lumix can improve on above lenses.

Nomad
02-13-2014, 12:04 PM
Thanks for the kind words!

Well, it improves only in resolution, of course. Ergonomics of the Lumix are crap in comparison and it distorts too when wide (but less than the old cine zooms beyond 15mm).

The Kinoptik 9.5 has been discussed here AFAIK.

We have to face the fact that just like 4K on a S-35 sensor is already seriously challenging many classic lenses, S-16 challenges them with HD. If we get 4K one day on this sensor size, older lenses will replace the missing OLPF ;-)

Bern Caughey
02-16-2014, 05:20 PM
Thanks Nomad. Been considering the Canon 8-64 but had reservations.

k0bayashi
05-02-2014, 04:18 AM
Hey guys, I just got my BMPCC and tried a Cosmicar 12.5mm f1.4 C-mount lens I bought off of ebay, which was supposedly mod-ed to focus to infinity on the Pocket camera, but alas, i tried it last night and I can't focus on anything beyond 2 meters. The cheap c-mount to m 4/3 I am using works as ti fits snug on both ends.

I see the lens has been shaved on the back and the seller claimed it had been mod-ed for inifnity focus with BMPCC but not tested. Well I did the testing for him and it doesn't. The questions is - for those that have the Black 12.5 Cosmicar 1.4 lens - are there any dimensions on how much of the back should be shaved in order to facilitate infinity focus?

I dont have access to a lathe but I am trying to find somewhere locally in London where to do this, but I need to know how much I need to take off additionaly? Anyone done this with measurements or just eyeballed it?

haavard
05-02-2014, 05:25 AM
There are quite a bit of difference between the adapters, I have both cheap and expensive ones and for some of the c-mount lenses I had to try a few adapters to find one that gave me infinity.

With a particularly difficult lens that would not reach infinity, I was successful with an adapter similar to this, as it seems to get the lens closer to the sensor than some of the other adapters:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/C-mount-Lens-to-Micro-4-3-M4-3-adapter-E-P3-E-PL5-E-PM2-DMC-GH2-GF5-GX1-Silver-/171044501988?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_c aps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item27d30bf9e4

I would try a few adapters before trying to modify your lens.
Also, try to unscrew the lens in the adapter and see if you reach infinity moving the lens further away from the sensor.

k0bayashi
05-02-2014, 05:37 AM
Thanks for the suggestion haavard - will get this adapter and try as pointed out. I have tried 2 adapter, cheap ones, but none of them give me focus to inifnity. Hope to get it with this adapter. will order today hope to get it in a couple of weeks and will update if I get a different adapter or mod the lens.

k0bayashi
05-02-2014, 05:53 AM
Also those with the Cosmicar 12.5mm what adapter did you use? anyone have a link? Thanks

haavard
05-02-2014, 06:09 AM
Where in London are you located? I'm in SE. If you want to try a few of my adapters, we could meet up if you are not too far away. Just send me a private message if you want.

k0bayashi
05-02-2014, 06:11 AM
Where in London are you located? I'm in SE. If you want to try a few of my adapters, we could meet up if you are not too far away. Just send me a private message if you want.

Awesom , I am based in SW - nearby Vauxhall, we could do that :)

Nomad
05-02-2014, 12:24 PM
I think the Cosmicar needs machining the rear ring down a bit with any adapter, just like the Zeiss (Jena) Tevidons.

It's easy to take the ring off, just three screws, and take it to a service provider for small metalwork.

Worzel Gummidge
05-07-2014, 04:58 AM
8684

Kowa LM6HC 6mm 1.8 - perfect for BMPCC and D16.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/cmountm43/