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markmwilliams
03-21-2013, 02:35 PM
Just a bit of fun really, but with NAB fast approaching and everything going rather quiet from BMD over recent weeks will there be any surprises from them this year?

BMCC Mk2?

Active MfT Mount?

Super new firmware inc. 60fps, global shutter mode etc.?

Let the wild speculation begin... :)

mhood
03-21-2013, 03:39 PM
I think BMD should give it until 2014 to do anything "revolutionary". That *might* give the memories of 2012 enough time to simmer down. With NAB less than a month away now, I suspect reps at the booth will spend a lot of their time explaining the shipping problems...don't you?

razz16mm
03-21-2013, 04:13 PM
I think BMD should give it until 2014 to do anything "revolutionary". That *might* give the memories of 2012 enough time to simmer down. With NAB less than a month away now, I suspect reps at the booth will spend a lot of their time explaining the shipping problems...don't you?

At least as far as cameras are concerned, BMD has their hands full as it is. I don't expect anything new on that front. They make a lot of other stuff too though.

Thekreative
03-21-2013, 04:59 PM
HD-SDI EVF. Their monitors are great and they have all the knowledge to make a EVF for the BMCV and any other SDI camera. Just make it $800 with the mount and they'd sell tons...... now about the pre-order :)

rawCAM35
03-21-2013, 05:02 PM
May be
An 8" location monitor for $ 500.00
19-24" 4K color grading monitor for $ 1600.00

Working on S35 camera, but I think they will announce it by the end of 2013- NAB 2014, ( not ready for shipping until the end of 2014 for $ 7-8 K

m0fe
03-21-2013, 06:13 PM
I think they will have updates and tweaks to all their existing hardware. Some may even be black magic cam specific. As far as the actual camera is concerned a nice new firmware with much needed functions is all I am expecting, anything else is a bonus

innerspark
03-21-2013, 11:16 PM
It'd just be great if their announcement was the hiring or more technicians to get them out the door faster without problems.

PaulDelVecchio
03-22-2013, 11:32 AM
They'll probably show some work done on the BMCC and have the BMCC at the show with a new firmware. It's way too early to be announcing a new camera. Maybe 2014.

RockhopperVFX
03-22-2013, 05:31 PM
prehaps someone should go to the stand with a bottle of windowlene and a cleaning cloth and demonstrate how to clean glass. Or how about a 10 foot neon sign with the words SORRY displayed above the kit.

Think for blackmagic that they hide in the shadows till the debacle that was the BMCC dies down, cos there will be bigger players there announcing there version of the BMCC with a real export date.

rawCAM35
03-22-2013, 06:40 PM
The bigger players exist only in a dream land, most the so called big players are in the red for the past five years and dying, they have no clue about the market and stuck in their old way of thinking of high prices, customer strangling and control.
I had a meeting two weeks ago with one of them, may be few broadcasters will buy the camera that they are introducing at the NAB, their philosophy about cameras and the customer ( market ) is twenty years backward.
BMD is a very strong company financially, it is not going anywhere, their business model is a good one, they find a sector of our industry that was ignored by the so called big players and they create a reasonably priced product and sell it to the masses.
BMD only mistake was announcing the shipping date, they should have sat on the camera until it is done, but who does not make mistakes, another big company could not make a simple zoom control work on one of their cameras for almost a year, I have not checked it since two months ago, how about the options ( for a price ) that they announced ?.
We have this forum because of this little camera, we learned a great deal from each other while we are waiting for this camera, it is great that there are so many knowledgeable people on this forum.

mrholman
03-23-2013, 09:56 AM
The bigger players exist only in a dream land, most the so called big players are in the red for the past five years and dying, they have no clue about the market and stuck in their old way of thinking of high prices, customer strangling and control.
I had a meeting two weeks ago with one of them, may be few broadcasters will buy the camera that they are introducing at the NAB, their philosophy about cameras and the customer ( market ) is twenty years backward.
BMD is a very strong company financially, it is not going anywhere, their business model is a good one, they find a sector of our industry that was ignored by the so called big players and they create a reasonably priced product and sell it to the masses.
BMD only mistake was announcing the shipping date, they should have sat on the camera until it is done, but who does not make mistakes, another big company could not make a simple zoom control work on one of their cameras for almost a year, I have not checked it since two months ago, how about the options ( for a price ) that they announced ?.
We have this forum because of this little camera, we learned a great deal from each other while we are waiting for this camera, it is great that there are so many knowledgeable people on this forum.

All that. I've learned a ton on here.

rick.lang
03-23-2013, 12:10 PM
The bigger players exist only in a dream land... stuck in their old way of thinking...
BMD is a very strong company financially, it is not going anywhere, their business model is a good one, they find a sector of our industry that was ignored by the so called big players...

It's that simple I think. They are feature driven, obsessed with all the bells and whistles, and left the field open to a simple camera that easily is capable of taking great pictures and allows those pictures to be edited easily in the right hands by the standards it supports and then coloured by their bundled software. It's the combination of things like this that the bigger players haven't fully appreciated. Perhaps BMD will announce even greater integration of all the parts and grow their markets and not be obsessed with the bells and whistles that many want but they consider secondary to their view of what is needed and wanted. Sure in time the bells and whistles in part will be added but that's not what will be exciting.

mhood
03-23-2013, 01:28 PM
...so VU meters are "bells and whistles"?

Andrew
03-23-2013, 02:39 PM
Rawcam35, you comment is spot on. It's almost as if the bigger companies just don't get it. Not that they don't make good products, but the idea of a simple but powerful camera isn't really something they would consider.



It's that simple I think. They are feature driven, obsessed with all the bells and whistles, and left the field open to a simple camera that easily is capable of taking great pictures and allows those pictures to be edited easily in the right hands by the standards it supports and then coloured by their bundled software.

So true.


...so VU meters are "bells and whistles"?

IMO, yes. I don't know why exactly, but even with audio inputs I've been expecting to do dual system sound from day one. I'm not opposed to them adding features and making the camera better, but for $3000 I feel like I'm already getting more than I could ask for with the image quality alone.

rick.lang
03-23-2013, 03:02 PM
...so VU meters are "bells and whistles"?

Yes in the context of what I was arguing. I did say bells and whistles would be added but that's not the driving force for what may be BMD's focus for NAB2013.

Did you see Randy's post in the BMD Forum on this similar theme? He said words to the effect that he is is impressed by how easy the BMCC has made much of the image capture and post processing and that distinguishes them from the major players. I think after a while there must be a kind of tunnel vision that has set in for some of the major players, that limits their ability to step back and rethink what is important. That's partially why an outsider like BMC could become a competitor without competing head-on. There are other outsiders also hoping to do the same for cameras and for lenses but BMD seems they will be the first to ship these alternative cameras in volume (and I think they'll announce at NAB2013 that they have started volume production for both cameras).

If I was BMD and having suffered the frustration of the Tokina infinity focus problems and the difficulty of reverse engineering the EF mount electronics so all EF lenses worked properly on the proprietary EF mount, I would throw my energy into the BMCC MFT and develop BMD prime and zoom lenses (perhaps in concert with the new lens designers posting here) for their camera. Canon certainly isn't going to help BMD be successful with the BMCC EF. So why not take a page form Arri, Red, Sony, Canon and roll their own lenses? The fact they have never done it means it wouldn't be a piece of cake but they will get it right with the right partners.

I look at the impressive lenses SLR Magic has designed, particularly their 35mm hyperprimes, and think it is still early enough to get In that game and be ensured the BMCC cameras and lenses work well together. I admit that would be a major divergence from their original thinking about building camera hardware that would use lenses from other sources, but the BMCC EF experience with 3rd party lenses may be enough to have them question their original concept and given them time to weigh the alternatives. Even incorporating the Metabones speed boost technology must have been something they have now considered.

Frank Glencairn
03-23-2013, 03:38 PM
but for $3000 I feel like I'm already getting more than I could ask for with the image quality alone.

Good point, I feel the same, every time I look at my material.

Roman
03-23-2013, 03:43 PM
If the bmcc had only ProRes, 800 ISO, no internal battery, and even more moire- It'd still be a huge steal for me. Obviously with those kind of drawbacks, your options are severely limited, but the image is just... amazing.

mhood
03-23-2013, 05:00 PM
I'm out of my league discussing this with you guys for sure but didn't BMD start this BMC saga targeting the huge pool of people who were shooting video on DSLRS? It seems to me that the whole last year has been a steady progression from the big end of the funnel down to the tightly defined little end. The BMC has gone from being good for sporting events, weddings, documentaries, almost everything to being a RAW CINEMA camera with a complicated workflow. It now feels like if you aren't a capable colorist with a powerful workstation, you aren't equipped for BMC work and if you require quick turnaround, even ProResHQ won't save you.

Independents and upper eshelon working DPs seem to be the target now...a much smaller customer pool. And the $3K is wasted on the working DPs because they would spend much more for a camera. This niche gr8ly limits the number of folks who will find the BMC most appropriate. If something like a $1K 4K GoPro were to come along, the big end of the BMC customer funnel would be in real jeopardy.

As I've said before, I'm not a cinematographer and am feeling more and more out of place with the BMC...I guess, however, that is my point.

rawCAM35
03-24-2013, 01:25 AM
Hi mhood, the cheapest raw camera that you can buy just two years ago was the IKONOSKOP DII for $9000.00, BMD made their camera to fit in between the Ikonoscop and the red, and also for Canon and the Nikon users to have a raw camera that they can afford and allowing them to use the lenses they already own.
Learning color grading is not a bad thing, I am trying to learn DaVinci so I can manipulate my work the way I want it, I know some guys who shoot on the Canon and the Nikon and they color grade everything before they post it on the site, so color grading is a necessity for creating visual media these days.
For sporting events, weddings and documentaries, you still can shoot in DNxD and ProRes and avoid raw, but I do not know of anyone who does not color correct their edited projects.
I think you will get so many members on this Forum to help you with color grading issues, I am planing on doing so my self.

Regarding the powerful computer, it is not that expensive, I nailed 3 PCs on eBay, HP Z800 with the following specs:
Z800 8-Core 2.8GHz Workstation $ 1100.00
(2) Xeon QC X5560 2.8GHz CPU's
24Gb DDR3 Memory (6 x 4Gb)
300Gb 10K SATA Hard Drive
Nvidia Quadro FX4800 PCI-e
Lightscribe DVD-RW DVD Burner Drive
Windows 7 Professional 64-Bit
(9) USB, (1) FWire, (2) ENet Ports
1110W Power Supply

I added
PNY GeForce GTX 680 4 GB $ 510.00
PNY Quadro 600 $ 145.00
So this is not bad for a decent computer
Good luck to you

Frank Glencairn
03-24-2013, 01:58 AM
Good points.

I find it funny, that especially a lot of DSLR/Apple guys I talked to lately, are grumbling about the need of transcoding and grading with the BMC.
Though that's what they did for years (and seemed quite happy with it).
They transcoded everything to ProRes, cause it was the only thing that FCP could read, and the shot everything superflat, so the can grade it better.

And now suddenly that's a bad thing?

RyGuy
03-24-2013, 02:59 AM
but for $3000 I feel like I'm already getting more than I could ask for with the image quality alone.

This! Every time I mention that I ordered a BMC to someone they are shocked and say "But it only has internal battery!" or "No XLR!" "You can't even monitor audio levels" or "I heard you can't even see the screen outside"

I look at all these things as bonuses. I would have happily paid for a $3000 brain that produced an image like the BMC. The fact that I can have all these bells and whistles on top of it just makes it that much better.

Kingswell
03-24-2013, 08:29 AM
The next logical step in BMD's ecosystem is a grading monitor. They've got the camera, the grading software, the playback cards/boxes. Only thing missing in that lineup is a monitor.

As for the camera i'm very happy with it, but i would love it in a more friendly form factor rather than just a brain. Messing about with 15mm rods, shoulders pads, evf mounts (although the $25 solution thegregferris suggested is awesome) annoys me greatly. Copy the Aaton design and be done with it.

mhood
03-24-2013, 09:53 AM
Hi rawCAM35. I truly understand the IQ benefits but also recognize the ergonomic shortcomings. Even your new desktop systems lack TB. Place yourself in the position of a person who absolutely requires portability...everything must fly to a wide variety of locations in the possession of a single individual...a laptop is an absolute requirement and that laptop must run CS6 on Win7. If I may borrow an excellent way of putting it: "I want a camera that will get out of my way".

To me, it's a case of the old "good, cheap, fast, pick two" scenario. BMC = good + cheap. C100 = good + fast. Pick your poison.

I reread this and decided to amend it a bit. BMC = gr8 + not as cheap as you might think since you'll be buying all the bells and whistles.

...and where are all the TB equipped Windows laptops I was told last April to expect? Is TB really a given going forward?

rawCAM35
03-24-2013, 02:26 PM
The next logical step in BMD's ecosystem is a grading monitor. They've got the camera, the grading software, the playback cards/boxes. Only thing missing in that lineup is a monitor.

As for the camera i'm very happy with it, but i would love it in a more friendly form factor rather than just a brain. Messing about with 15mm rods, shoulders pads, evf mounts (although the $25 solution thegregferris suggested is awesome) annoys me greatly. Copy the Aaton design and be done with it.

I am using the dual 8" from BMD at work, great monitor for the price, and also I suggested a field monitor concept to BMD last summer, I think we will see a grading and field monitors from BMD soon.
I agree with you regarding BMD camera forum factor, I took my camera out for the first time at this year's OSCARS, I was on the job and I know that I will not have the time to shoot with my BMD camera, but I had few minutes just when the arrivals just started on the red carpet, first I could not see anything on the LCD monitor, 3-10 K lights hitting the monitor, I could not focus, I was using an old Nikon 24mm lens, it was heavy to hold for long periods of time, just did not work for me, I own film cameras and I would like to see BMD to create a fully functional camera body with minimum attachments to it, it is OK if it costs a little more, may be something in the works ????.

rawCAM35
03-24-2013, 02:45 PM
Mr. mhood, I forgot to mention that I put 3 TB of storage on the PC, but I will be sharing my Avid storage.
There is no escape from off loading the media if you shoot raw, you have to do that on the RED, ALEXA, Sony and the Ikonoskop, unless you buy enough SSD drives.
In total agreement with you regarding the ergonomic shortcomings, I think that BMD got the message ( they do read the Forums ) and hopefully will see something different.
I think there is a hope for you may be coming from GoPro, I think they are up to something when they acquired CINIFORM ?
Regards

BJNY
03-26-2013, 06:32 PM
I'd like a HyperDeck Shuttle
• with built-in 5" 1080p IPS display (as found in many Android smartphones)
• and capable of streaming wirelessly to iPad.

Alexey
03-26-2013, 07:19 PM
Just a bit of fun really, but with NAB fast approaching and everything going rather quiet from BMD over recent weeks will there be any surprises from them this year?

BMCC Mk2?

Active MfT Mount?

Super new firmware inc. 60fps, global shutter mode etc.?

Let the wild speculation begin... :)
Can anyone explain why global shutter was not enabled by default? It's just a trigger in software? Or am I mistaken?

innerspark
03-27-2013, 01:28 AM
I think the version version of the BMCC is awesome. I just hope to see more advances in the firmware, hopefully by NAB. The two biggest being a global shutter and audio meters.

The audio meters, or lack of, in a two audio input camera, is perplexing. Like renting out a rowboat, without the paddles.

yoclay
03-27-2013, 03:29 AM
Global shutter?
That's pie in the sky and wish fulfillment.
This camera does not have the horsepower to do that.

John Brawley
03-27-2013, 08:33 AM
Can anyone explain why global shutter was not enabled by default? It's just a trigger in software? Or am I mistaken?

With many sensors, you get a dramatic reduction in DR.

jb

rawCAM35
03-27-2013, 01:13 PM
Global shutter implementation requires more circuitry and processing speed, it will lower the frame rate, introduce some noise and a lower DR, the photosites current values ( after exposure ) have to be read and off-loaded to a buffer, then each photosite value stored in the buffer has to be read sequentially and sent for farther processing and then flushed, then all photosites have to be reset and ready for a new exposure, all these operations plus the frame rate have to be performed in less than one second , the higher the number of the photosites in a sensor the more processing speed needed.

Tzedekh
03-31-2013, 03:20 AM
If the sensor in the BMC is, as has been speculated, the CIS2051, use of the global-shutter mode would, in theory, result in the loss of about one stop of dynamic range. At least that's what the specs of the pco.edge (http://www.pco.de/fileadmin/user_upload/db/download/BR_pco_edge_105.pdf#page=4) (which also uses the CIS2051) indicate.

dcloud
03-31-2013, 08:25 AM
bmcc2 would be abad idea. something to supplement the current bmc would be better.

popcornflix
04-05-2013, 08:32 PM
I've read several mutterings from reliable sources that BMD will make some kind of announcement about MFT ship dates at NAB.

From their track record with announcing previous ship dates, I don't think this amounts to much more than wishful thinking. More about announcing intentions than announcing actions.

popcornflix
04-05-2013, 08:35 PM
Early on, there was some talk among the ranks about a "sports mode," which would be a global shutter mode with reduced DR at 1080 only. That way, the BMDCC could process the footage in time, rather than reducing the frame rate to try to process 2.5k frames.

Tzedekh
04-06-2013, 11:42 AM
Early on, there was some talk among the ranks about a "sports mode," which would be a global shutter mode with reduced DR at 1080 only. That way, the BMDCC could process the footage in time, rather than reducing the frame rate to try to process 2.5k frames.
It's not just the sensor that determines whether a global shutter is possible, but also the camera's other processors and, I suppose, on-board heat dissipation. The pco.edge camera with global-shutter mode (yes, there is one without it) costs nearly $20K, not $3K. But yeah, the CIS2051 in that camera can do 100 fps at 1080p in global-shutter mode, and 50 fps at the full 2,560 x 2,160 resolution.

Sfernald
04-06-2013, 02:46 PM
Man, I would just be happy with a nice firmware upgrade for BMCC. No need for a BMCC v2 yet. Let's get the software end of things up to snuff.

How about more framerate - 120 fps with prores? Should use the same file storage requirements as RAW. Why not?
Audio Meters
Exposure meters - histograms, waveforms, anything.
Trick it out a little - so much more you could add

How many firmware upgrades did it take until RED was up to snuff???

John Brawley
04-06-2013, 04:29 PM
How about more framerate - 120 fps with prores? Should use the same file storage requirements as RAW. Why not?

How many firmware upgrades did it take until RED was up to snuff???


120 FPS will never happen on the current hardware. It's been discussed to death.

Whilst there are lots planned for the current firmware, BMD isn't RED. They won't be endlessly upgrading firmware and adding features. Obsolescence is obsolete is the RED schtick. The camera doesn't have powerful enough processors to keep on doing this. Part of the reason for it's lower cost.

If you look at BMD's other products, they tend to refresh and release new hardware rather than having a product that they keep firmware updating. They make the cost so low that you can more easily update your hardware. If you had a RED one, that you then turned into a RED MX or an EPIC and now a Dragon, it's not like the obsolescence protection hasn't cost you a big chunk either....you're still paying thousands.....

jb

Kholi
04-06-2013, 04:36 PM
It seems that a few people bought the camera, as spec'd, but had some sort of idea that it would be more than that with a few firmware updates. The higher frame rates thing and a few others are sort of confusing. If it happens, terrific, if not, well that was what we all sort of signed up for?

V1 DOES still need the basics: audio metering, lens communications, those odds and ends and it will be complete as spec'd/announced. This isn't to say that I don't welcome the extras (timelapse was not in the cards initially, I believe), and would absolutely love to see an Anamorphic shooting mode on the camera, but if that's V2 then that's V2, I'm in regardless.

Once someone figures out the moire thing then every single issue I've had with the camera will be "resolved" ... I guess that pun is completely appropriate for this forum. xDDD

PaulDelVecchio
04-06-2013, 08:28 PM
120 FPS will never happen on the current hardware. It's been discussed to death.

Obsolescence is obsolete is the RED schtick. ... If you had a RED one, that you then turned into a RED MX or an EPIC and now a Dragon, it's not like the obsolescence protection hasn't cost you a big chunk either....you're still paying thousands.....

jb

Obsolescence is obsolete... as long as you have the money to pay for it.

yoclay
04-07-2013, 03:37 AM
Once someone figures out the moire thing then every single issue I've had with the camera will be "resolved" ... I guess that pun is completely appropriate for this forum. xDDD

This is the single most important bugaboo.
Moving to a BMCC camera, the last thing I want to deal with are DSLR issues.

I just cannot understand why this has not been dealt with yet.
If NAB doesn't present a solution, even my MFT order is in question.

rick.lang
04-07-2013, 07:28 AM
Once someone figures out the moire thing then every single issue I've had with the camera will be "resolved" ... I guess that pun is completely appropriate for this forum. xDDD

Tiffen announcing Pro-Mist or Digital Diffraction will be added to the IRND filters at least for ND 0.3, 0.6, 0.9, and 1.2 filters, so one filter can provide you with the benefits of ND, IR, and either Pro-Mist or DD. they claim that may help reduce moiré:
http://news.creativecow.net/story/871085

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-07-2013, 03:20 PM
It will be funny if BMD announces this week at NAB that they've bought Mosaic Engineering. :-)

yoclay
04-07-2013, 05:38 PM
It will be funny if BMD announces this week at NAB that they've bought Mosaic Engineering. :-)

It would be even more funny if they announced this week that they are giving up the camera business, because they are tired of complaining videographers.

CaptainHook
04-07-2013, 06:13 PM
Tiffen announcing Pro-Mist or Digital Diffraction will be added to the IRND filters at least for ND 0.3, 0.6, 0.9, and 1.2 filters, so one filter can provide you with the benefits of ND, IR, and either Pro-Mist or DD. they claim that may help reduce moiré:
http://news.creativecow.net/story/871085

That was discussed briefly almost a month ago :)

http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?2894-ND-Filters-are-killing-my-resolution-Help!&p=52512&viewfull=1#post52512

Raleigh
02-01-2014, 07:22 PM
what about NAB 2014??

pocket cam 2?

new firmware? haha doubt it

or just the 4k cam?

hoping for some magic from blackmagic!

Tim Hole
02-01-2014, 09:23 PM
Well if they show another camera...people will get pretty pissed. :)

I'm sure it will be just hardware pipeline stuff...

Of course a 'field' grading control surface for £600 would very happily rec'd :)

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
02-02-2014, 04:07 AM
UPDATED:

Here are my guesses as to what Blackmagic Design will announce at NAB 2014 this April:

BMD will add 4K UHD, Thunderbolt-2, and USB-3 to their products that don’t already have it. Note: This raises the possibility that the very late BMPC-4K camera will not start shipping until NAB 2014 and be re-announced as “new & improved, now with Thunderbolt-2 and USB-3!” (including TB2 I/O @ up to 4K UHD, and data transfer to a computer). Wouldn’t that be a kick in the head?

2 new monitors:

A 4K UHD monitor with 6G-SDI, Thunderbolt-2, and UltraScope built-in. Given the low-cost panels shown at CES 2014, I imagine BMD would be able to package such a monitor at a very competitive price (~$1K).

A relatively small, battery-operable, native 1080p monitor with 6G-SDI, Thunderbolt-2, and UltraScope built-in. Perfect for field & on-camera use. Around $1K.

Also:

A new Hyperdeck Shuttle Extreme but with a built-in, ~5″, 720p touchscreen monitor (bright, matte finish, LCD/LED), UHD & 1080p recording, Thunderbolt-2, XLR analog/digital audio I/O, on-screen menus, plus all existing HdS features, plus additional ProRes recording modes (HQ, 422 & LT); <$1K.

(The Hyperdeck Studio models will also get TB2 added).

A battery-operable device for fast transfer of data from a SSD to relatively big internal RAID HDD/SSD storage. For off-loading clips shot with a BMCC or BMPC-4K without a computer. Probably has a small built-in screen. Ability to format SSD for use in BMD cams. With TB2 & USB-3 to transfer stored clips to a computer (can also be used as RAID storage for a computer). <$500 without built-in drives (standard 2.5″? 3.5″? HDD/SSD can be user-installed, or a build-to-order option).

A new HD Link but with 4K UHD capability, Thunderbolt-2, ability to manipulate/adjust LUTs in realtime via a connected computer/smartphone/tablet (TB2, USB-3, WiFi), plus all other existing HD Link features; <$1K.

And in their booth, a complete TV production studio demo using several BMPC-4K cameras connected to their ATEM switchers via the new HD Links & Resolve 10 (for live grading & camera matching), the new monitors, etc. Not just a simple “set” with solo cams pointed at models, but a real TV production demo, showing the workflow from multiple cams to switcher to final output.

Also: Something unexpected, such as a lighting product (plasma?, LED?) with great specs & low price, or an inexpensive wireless 6G-SDI UHD transmitter/receiver, or an audio recorder with great specs & low price (actually, the new HdS described above is pretty much that, but maybe they’ll do one w/o a built-in monitor), or timecode-related gear???

User-installable OLPF filters for all BMD cameras (except maybe the BMPC-4K; maybe it doesn't need one?). Either made by Mosaic Eng. for BMD, or BMD buys Mosaic outright. If the latter, maybe they stop production of OLPF for non-BMD cameras? Price <$200.

Probably no new cameras, but if they do:

A new, improved version of the original BMCC (called the BMCC Extreme 2.5K, priced at $2K) with updated electronics hardware so it can share some of the same enhancements available for the BMPCC pocket & BMPC-4K cams. My guess is the original BMCC doesn't have enough RAM or CPU to be updated, so it needed a hardware revision plus new firmware. The BMCC Extreme will be available with either an EF active lens mount, or a new active MFT. New higher-res (720p), brighter, matte-finish LCD (LED?) touchscreen monitor. Will include Thunderbolt-2 for UltraScope and data transfer to computer (or to the new BMD data storage device). The sensor will be the same size and color science as the original, but with slightly better dynamic range and S/N specs. Possibly frame rates up to 48 fps. Maybe switchable between rolling and global shutter, but the GS mode will have less sensitivity. Possibly additional ProRes modes (422 & LT). Possibly XLR phantom powered mic inputs replace the TRS jacks, with improved audio performance for mic recording. Wildcard: Built-in switchable ND filters. Most of these features will require a new firmware; see below.

Owners of the original BMCC-EF & BMCC-MFT will be able to buy a new BMCC Extreme (either active EF or active MFT) for only $1K.

New BMD camera firmware for all their cameras. Small, incremental, but welcome improvements such as: Audio peak meters, record time remaining while recording, full timecode functionality, Stop Motion & Stills mode (with a few additional shutter speeds >1/240th sec.), and maybe a few other minor tweaks. For the BMCC Extreme, the Focus magnify mode can be repositioned via touchscreen including while recording (required a new additional frame buffer in new hardware). And also the BMCC Extreme may get up to 48 fps via its new hardware. I hope the BMPC-4K will get the new FPS & Focus features, too, but I don't know if its hardware can handle it.

Or: A high frame rate >1080p camera for super slow motion at a relatively low price (but possibly the same or higher price as BMD’s BMPC-4K cam). Perhaps capable of several hundred FPS, but with relatively low sensitivity. Sensor size possibly no larger than S16. High FPS, but low sensitivity, so it doesn’t compete with BMD’s other cams, but at a low enough price to compete with HFR cams from other manufacturers.

Or: Maybe they'll announce something like my dream camera (http://herefortheweather.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/future-my-video-camera-design-wish-list/) that I described in detail several months ago?

Or: Something to compete with GoPro's inevitable higher-end model … perhaps "BMME" (the "Mini Extreme"): A very small 4K UHD “action cam” (smaller than a BMPCC pocket cam)? Maybe not a S16 sensor or active MFT lens mount like the BMPCC, but instead maybe a smaller hi-res sensor as big or bigger than the sensor in a GoPro, with a “C” lens mount? Recording ProRes and compressed RAW to a fast SD card? Its killer “action cam” feature would be a global shutter. With USB3 (not TB2), and a small LCD screen. Price <$500.

(My guess is that a true "BMPCC 4K" pocket isn't possible yet. The technology is either not good enough or too expensive.)

Of course, whatever they announce, most of it will ship months late.

Or, the biggest surprise of all:

All the new products available immediately!

:-)

Ody
02-02-2014, 11:19 AM
pocket cam 4k

Kingswell
02-02-2014, 01:26 PM
Also: Something unexpected, such as a lighting product (plasma?, LED?) with great specs & low price,

Yes please. Forget cameras, we need revolutionary pricing in lighting fixtures. I'll take a $100 dedolight please :p

dcloud
02-02-2014, 06:57 PM
Whatever it is theyr announcing here could be it
http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com.es/2014/01/fairchild-imaging-to-unveil-scmos-20.html?m=1

Ody
02-03-2014, 06:00 PM
new sensor…maybe

NotJesus
02-04-2014, 12:12 AM
pocket cam 4k

Dear God no. I'd prefer higher frame rate is so much more.

NotJesus
02-04-2014, 12:13 AM
Or just global shutter.

fahnon
02-06-2014, 08:47 AM
If they announce a new camera, I'd bet it will be just an active m43 mount,higher frame rate bmcc. If they're smart they'll go the RED route and let us send our cameras in for an upgrade.

fahnon
02-06-2014, 08:48 AM
Dear God no. I'd prefer higher frame rate is so much more.

Me too. Global shutter too on such a small and light camera...

Jake Hellbach
02-06-2014, 09:03 AM
They will announce a 4K production camera that will be shipped in July


Oh wait.......

NotJesus
02-06-2014, 10:44 AM
If they announce a new camera, I'd bet it will be just an active m43 mount,higher frame rate bmcc. If they're smart they'll go the RED route and let us send our cameras in for an upgrade.

There is no way they will be able to upgrade cameras at these price points.

The Buffo
02-06-2014, 02:54 PM
Just give me good audio so I don't need my zoomh4n hanging around my neck while I'm shooting please. I look like a robot. C'mon Blackmagic Design! Please give me some good internal audio recording. That's all I ask. Movies are video AND audio!

Raleigh
02-09-2014, 12:49 PM
The 4k cam will probably be released with new firmware and that will be for the pocket cinema and 2.5k soooooo...... i think we are in for a real treat.

raf702
03-05-2014, 09:06 AM
I was just on Craigslist, and this caught my immediate attention.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/pho/4360448094.html
"Rumor has it that in 30 days (pre-NAB) ...

Blackmagic Design will announce a new (lower priced) Super 35mm 4K Camera with a "CMOS" Sensor (so no Global Shutter) but with 14 stops dynamic range (like the Cinema Camera) with better low light ability somewhere between $1,995 - $2,499.

The Cinema Camera may be discontinued with a further price reduction to $1,499.

This is just a RUMOR so take it with a grain of salt, but it sounds interesting ..."



Hmmmm, where do people come up with these things? What do you guys think?

Trevor Roach
03-05-2014, 09:54 AM
I was just on Craigslist, and this caught my immediate attention.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/pho/4360448094.html
"Rumor has it that in 30 days (pre-NAB) ...

Blackmagic Design will announce a new (lower priced) Super 35mm 4K Camera with a "CMOS" Sensor (so no Global Shutter) but with 14 stops dynamic range (like the Cinema Camera) with better low light ability somewhere between $1,995 - $2,499.

The Cinema Camera may be discontinued with a further price reduction to $1,499.

This is just a RUMOR so take it with a grain of salt, but it sounds interesting ..."



Hmmmm, where do people come up with these things? What do you guys think?


As wonderful as that sounds, I really hope they just work on upgrading the firmware, and introducing an EVF to go with their cameras or something. I'm done playing the "chase the camera" game for a while....

Jake Hellbach
03-05-2014, 10:15 AM
A Craigslist rumor..... That in itself is very credible :)

I would like them to come out with a 4K external recorder for less than $2K

Jake

JLdp
03-05-2014, 10:21 AM
and it wont be available until summer of 2015… so lets focus on what we have in our hands!

jambredz
03-05-2014, 12:14 PM
Highly doubt they'd discontinue the bmcc but if they do for some odd reason i'd never buy another bmd product again... Id refuse even if they were giving me for free.

And yeh they just need to concentrate of getting these firmwares out the door and working.

NotJesus
03-05-2014, 04:29 PM
What it site problem with them discontinuing it? If they replace it with a similarly priced model with better features. Companies do that all the time. I don't see the problem.

If they stop supporting it however and stop doing FW-upgrades then I fully agree.

MiguelFranco
03-06-2014, 02:43 AM
The current 4K BMPC already has a CMOS sensor, you don't need a CCD to have global shutter, and you can also have rolling shutter on CCDs.

PaulDelVecchio
03-06-2014, 07:43 AM
Highly doubt they'd discontinue the bmcc but if they do for some odd reason i'd never buy another bmd product again... Id refuse even if they were giving me for free.

And yeh they just need to concentrate of getting these firmwares out the door and working.

They do it all the time. My Decklink card is the Extreme 3D. They don't make it anymore. It has been replaced by the Decklink 4K. It'll happen, just not sure when. BMD is pretty aggressive though.

twelvetwelves
03-06-2014, 11:57 AM
i hope they will anounce nothing, and keep working on their current cameras.

jambredz
03-07-2014, 11:44 PM
What i should have said was if they discontinue support of the cam.... Not necessarily manufacturing of it, my mistake. If they didnt upgrade the firmware with what they said they would have way back when and more future firmware updates. Then yes id never buy a thing from them again.

blahey
03-10-2014, 12:48 PM
i hope they will anounce nothing, and keep working on their current cameras.

THIS

Martin Yernazian
03-21-2014, 06:55 PM
Darren I couldn't agree with you more.
So far the BMCC works well but we do NEED the fixes in the forever promised firmware upgrade. I'm not talking about audio meters (which it will be nice when you are doing double recording), a global shutter a mutant active MFT mount and all the nonsense wishful thinking. I'm talking about the black sun for christ sake! (which makes shooting anything backlit a nightmare)
There is no argument that could defend this. I don't care if BMD priced it a one peso! that is their call, we didn't ask them to lower their prices
(which is a clear manipulation of the market, i.e. lower end customer manipulation)
We just want and NEED the product to work properly. Which is what we paid for... simple as that... (lowering that standard is a clear abuse to such customer).

@John Brawley I agree with you that BMD is not RED. That is a shame and a lost opportunity to truly compete with a format that has clearly work for them.
I know plenty of people here would have pony up and paid for the upgrades...(I would have been one of them) Now, for that price range that would have been truly revolutionary! Maybe in the future? It is irrelevant to the present issue.

I agree with you in principal. It is a little out there to ask for a new sensor (or any significant hardware upgrade) for the camera(s) that you already own when BMD has never offered that sort of hardware upgrade system in their history.

Now, would it be nice to have a higher frame rate and a few other software based surprises (like a slower shutter and a on board LUT)? Yes... but honestly
I'm not expecting it.

We want a camera that will work properly in all its functions... that is it... you have a few bonuses? perfect! will take them...
Their customer base will stay strong and forget about the countless delays...
Regardless...I'm not here to lecture anyone how to run a company that cares about their customers, no... I'm here asking, actually begging, for a proper update... and at this exhausting point I don't think I'm alone.


What i should have said was if they discontinue support of the cam.... Not necessarily manufacturing of it, my mistake. If they didnt upgrade the firmware with what they said they would have way back when and more future firmware updates. Then yes id never buy a thing from them again.

shittpomfritt
03-22-2014, 05:39 AM
My hopes(not realistic, though) for NAB is that they adopt the Axiom Apertus plans and make modular cameras with different modules so people can put together their "perfect" camera. Sensor, processor, recording etc modules with multiple options to customize. They could use the sensors they already have and hopefully maybe a few more for highspeed and a higher quality, pricier Alexa/Dragonish sensor.

Tom
03-25-2014, 07:24 PM
Would love something like this, id be happy with the same sensor / spec but in this form factor.

http://tommajerski.com/publicimages/BMCC-v2.jpg

bitcrusher
03-25-2014, 11:41 PM
My educated guess is

BMCC MKII with active m43 mount maybe upgraded sensor.

Pocket price drop to $799

Show some kind of high end prototype camera due to not being able to top last years show.

Michael Carter
03-26-2014, 08:46 AM
Sheesh, how about just upgrading the BMC -

60p at 1080... battery, remaining disk space & display issues, audio issues sorted, formatting, stuff like that...

And a price drop...

Tom
03-26-2014, 03:26 PM
Here is a better version of something I posted earlier. This is what I would like to see.

http://tommajerski.com/publicimages/render-1.jpg

http://tommajerski.com/publicimages/render-1.jpg

KurtF
03-26-2014, 08:33 PM
Nice design Tom.

Brian@202020
03-27-2014, 11:08 PM
I have a theory of a product that Metabones might possibly release at NAB. A Speed Booster type of adapter that only enlarges the image horizontally and not vertically. An adapter like this would make any APS-C or FF lens Anamorphic. How cool would that be?

I know this isn't BMD, but it would benefit us BMD MFT camera owners.

nickjbedford
03-27-2014, 11:55 PM
More complete firmware instead of newer cameras is likely what most of us would prefer.

Martin
03-28-2014, 04:29 AM
Great design. I also think a better design counts for as much as better specs. Although I want specs. hmm, specs....

KKeller
03-28-2014, 03:10 PM
More complete firmware instead of newer cameras is likely what most of us would prefer.

+1

Kholi
03-28-2014, 04:41 PM
Who's actually going to NAB?

Finally registered, really only going to see what BMD's got brewin', then will likely turn around. Going to take the pocket camera to grab footage of the booth.

One hundred percent hoping they announce another camera or two, and a 10-bit 4K panel. Fingers twisted!

Jake Segraves
03-28-2014, 05:05 PM
Who's actually going to NAB?

i'm going...visiting the BMD booth on Tuesday and doing GoPro Studio demos at the GoPro booth on Wednesday and Thursday.

G-Man
03-29-2014, 11:15 AM
Not that I'm holding my breath for it, but I would like a Global Shutter version of the pocket camera, for $999.

scorsesefan
03-29-2014, 02:11 PM
Nice design, Tom. BM should be signing your check :)

tbeagl
03-29-2014, 05:07 PM
I wanna see a 4k cinema camera with 14 stops of DR and a PL mount. and of course a huge firmware update to go with it. They're primarily a software company so I believe they'll do something big with it.

CaptainHook
03-29-2014, 07:06 PM
I wanna see a 4k cinema camera with 14 stops of DR and a PL mount. and of course a huge firmware update to go with it. They're primarily a software company so I believe they'll do something big with it.

That's what i described back a bit too. Would love it, and BMD have surprised us before but still... Wish i could go to NAB but so far away.

mbeck
03-29-2014, 10:36 PM
...They're primarily a software company so I believe they'll do something big with it.
No, they are a hardware company that does some software. They bought the resolve team, I doubt they are pulling those guys off of the resolve project to do camera firmware.

Gary Huff
03-29-2014, 11:53 PM
Who's actually going to NAB?

I'll be around.

Isaac_Brody
03-30-2014, 10:44 AM
I would be pretty happy with a pocket camera with global shutter announcement.

Note Suwanchote
03-30-2014, 07:14 PM
Hmmm when do we expect an announcement? The night before exhibition (leak last year) or on the morning of?

Newman
04-02-2014, 09:33 PM
Last year I went to NAB and talked to BMD engineers and Grant about firmware updates- formatting/ audio meters. They smiled/ nodded/ said they were working on it.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

Gary Huff
04-06-2014, 12:01 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day.

But at some point it did actually exist as something.

rawCAM35
04-06-2014, 06:24 PM
Hmmm when do we expect an announcement? The night before exhibition (leak last year) or on the morning of?

Usually Mr. Grant sends an email at 5:30 am Monday morning with all the announcements

Srgtfury
04-06-2014, 09:20 PM
Which Time Zone?

Thank you very much

Fury

rawCAM35
04-06-2014, 09:58 PM
Pacific Time Zone

robster180
04-07-2014, 10:09 AM
Bloody Hell - Not one but 2 new platforms...

URSA
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursa

Studio Camera
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicstudiocamera

Jeremy Hyler
04-07-2014, 10:15 AM
Bloody Hell - Not one but 2 new platforms...

URSA
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursa

Studio Camera
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicstudiocamera


Not gonna lie, kinda angry. They made the 2.5k camera obsolete in a year. It must cost like 800 bucks by now. I should have waited. I hope they have some upgrades for my system.

bpm
04-07-2014, 11:13 AM
BMD needs to update their firmware and get all the user's complaints taken care of before they spend all that time/resources on a new body!
They are gonna make a lot of customers hate them forever if they can't step up their game!

StarCoreFilms
04-07-2014, 11:51 AM
Not gonna lie, kinda angry. They made the 2.5k camera obsolete in a year. It must cost like 800 bucks by now. I should have waited. I hope they have some upgrades for my system.

I think the Pocket Cinema camera is more damaging to the BMCC's 2.5k value than their 4k upgradable movie camera will be right away. It's in a whole different price category. I would think they'd put the BMCC at $1,499 with Resolve 11 (probably no lower unless they move their pocket cinema camera price south). That way they have the Pocket at $995 (but they may drop it $100 or so) category, the BMCC for slightly more at $1,499 as it's only slightly better and slightly worse in some regards, so it should only be no more than 50% more in price....if that. Next price category is their 4k Production Camera at $2,995. They may leave the price on it alone for now, but I can envision a $500-$1,000 between NAB 2014 & NAB 2015 next year. Their new movie camera is in the nearly $6,000 range, so it's more competition for the Canon C100/C300, the Sony S700/F5.

Jeremy Hyler
04-07-2014, 12:14 PM
i could see the pocket camera for 595 and the bmcc for 995 just saying the logic they are taking seems it could go that way.

Martin Yernazian
04-07-2014, 12:24 PM
muuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaha...... aaaaaah ahhhhh.... wait wait HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

scorsesefan
04-07-2014, 12:54 PM
So firmware update 1.7 is up and NOTHING for bmcc/bmpc/bmpcc... UGH....

StarCoreFilms
04-07-2014, 01:33 PM
i could see the pocket camera for 595 and the bmcc for 995 just saying the logic they are taking seems it could go that way.

It's possible, but I doubt they are getting much margin of profit on the BMPCC as it is at $995. $599 might make the pocket unprofitable $895...maybe $795 is the biggest price drop I can see happening if there were one within the next year. Another reason why their new 4k camera should have very little impact on BMCC's value is because the media required is about $1,800 for only 256GB, which is about the price of a BMCC now. Of course big-name cameras like the Panasonic Gh4 coming in at $1699 with 4k, apparently great low light, tons of features including Slow-Mo are going to hurt the BMCC's value as well and mores so than their new super heavy much more expensive cinema camera that takes very very expensive recording media.

The new camera is very interesting for those who want waveforms, scopes, audio monitors, a giant-ass LCD monitor...lol, and be able to upgrad to the next big sensor. Would be nice to be able upgrade to a sensor like the new Kinemax is using that is upto 16 stops of dynamic range. That's what I'm looking forward too, but I'll probably pass on their new cameras for now.

Jeremy Hyler
04-07-2014, 02:19 PM
i just want to know if the atomos shogun will work with bmcc if so i'll take a 4k recorder and HD 120fps recording for under 2,000

jakepowell
04-19-2014, 04:17 PM
how would an shogun record 4k and 120fps from a bmcc which can only do 2.5k and 30fps??????

Gary Huff
04-20-2014, 10:33 AM
how would an shogun record 4k and 120fps from a bmcc which can only do 2.5k and 30fps??????

The way camera hardware works seems to greatly elude some.

johnny
04-25-2014, 05:10 AM
4K pocket camera at next NAB?

rick.lang
04-26-2014, 09:48 AM
4K pocket camera at next NAB?

BMD has found a new sensor to put in the Studio 4K camera. It's only a tiny bit larger than the sensor in the Pocket camera which is also used in the currently shipping Studio HD camera, so in terms of space, it would fit, but it is possible that there could be other technical or operational reasons for it not to be used in the Pocket. Does seem like an interesting option though.