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ViktorSebastian
05-12-2012, 11:40 AM
Has anyone thought about the best way to record audio for documentary use?

I am debating.

1. MixPre (Preamp, phantom power, XLR inputs.)
2. Pix 240 (Preamp, phantom power, XLR inputs, back up video recording)
3. Fostex FR-2LE (XLR, back up sound in camera.)
4. Wireless receiver into BMC. (Boom -> preamp -> transmitter)

Any other ideas?

Small, light and simple is the goal :cool:

Philip Lipetz
05-12-2012, 12:03 PM
Look at Oade Brothers modifications of external recorders for dual sound systems. Sound Devices quality at a fraction of the price.

Steve4505
05-12-2012, 12:04 PM
I am hoping something like this would work well. ART USB Dual Pre - USB 1.1 Digital Audio Interface with Dual Microphone Preamps (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/615405-REG/ART_USBDUALPREPS_USB_Dual_Pre_.html) for $69.

ViktorSebastian
05-12-2012, 12:06 PM
$69! That looks pretty good. I wonder if it has mounting holes so it can be rigged on rails.

This one with a meter is probably a good option.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/257221-REG/ART_TUBE_MP_STUDIO_V3_Tube_MP_Studio_V3.html

Steve Wake
05-12-2012, 01:19 PM
Another option for the main list:

Wireless receiver(s) of your choice feeding balanced line level direct to BMC.

plus, if you can, boom operator riding levels on a preamp -> transmitter; or feed from mixing board -> transmitter.

mhood
05-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Wireless receiver(s) of your choice feeding balanced line level direct to BMC.

That's what I'm hoping will work for me and my one man show.

ViktorSebastian
05-12-2012, 01:45 PM
Would you hold the boom pole with other arm?

mhood
05-12-2012, 01:48 PM
^^^Two Lectrosonix wireless lavs. Virtually all I shoot is talking heads.

Tim Joy
05-12-2012, 01:49 PM
For one-man-band, I think Mix pre (or similar) would be the simplest way to go. And you're also assured quality mic preamps with great LIMITERS. <- Very important for doc work.
Depending on your rig, you could probably mount it on the rails/ bracket.
The biggest advantages would be to have the gains immediately accessible without needing to go into the BMC menu, see the level meters easily, and the limiters.

ViktorSebastian
05-12-2012, 01:49 PM
Hah! they are almost as much as the camera!

mhood
05-12-2012, 01:50 PM
True dat! LOL!

ViktorSebastian
05-12-2012, 01:54 PM
For one-man-band, I think Mix pre (or similar) would be the simplest way to go. And you're also assured quality mic preamps with great LIMITERS. <- Very important for doc work.
Depending on your rig, you could probably mount it on the rails/ bracket.
The biggest advantages would be to have the gains immediately accessible without needing to go into the BMC menu, see the level meters easily, and the limiters.

We are a team of two, director + camera. Exploring the possibility of turning the director into director/sound recordist. Would having the mix pre in a bag, whilst holding the boom be a viable option? Or would getting an external recorder be the better ticket?

As you can tell my sound recording knowledge is limited.

adam777
05-12-2012, 05:16 PM
Sound Devices is great for audio. Don't you want the audio to be as good as or even better than than the video from this camera? If onboard audio is completely useless, I'm possibly looking at the sound devices 702 audio recorder.

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/702.htm

ViktorSebastian
05-12-2012, 05:41 PM
I agree.

At this stage I am thing a MixPre or at worst case 702.

Tim Joy
05-12-2012, 05:54 PM
We are a team of two, director + camera. Exploring the possibility of turning the director into director/sound recordist. Would having the mix pre in a bag, whilst holding the boom be a viable option? Or would getting an external recorder be the better ticket?

As you can tell my sound recording knowledge is limited.

Depends on your budget. One person to focus on sound would probably be better than camera + sound.
It wouldn't hurt to have both. Have the director on boom+ lav with an external recorder, and setup a powered shotgun on the camera as a backup/ alt mic.

ViktorSebastian
05-12-2012, 05:58 PM
Thanks for the advice.

I am thinking.
- Superlux s502 mounted on the camera into MixPre
http://www.thomann.de/gb/superlux_s502.htm
- Director with boom into Mixpre

MixPre into external recorder or BMC

adam777
05-12-2012, 06:04 PM
I have the MM-1, but is the MixPre more useful than the 702?

davidd
05-14-2012, 06:35 AM
The advantage of the MixPre is the ease of control with big knobs and a very good visible metering.
The advantage of the 702 is that it can record.

Try to get both in your hands and play with them, you will see the difference immediately.

I highly recommend the MixPre-D. I feed it to 5dmkII or Olympus LS11. Works nice.
If there would be a small Audiorecorder with optical inputs (like the micro track, but usable), I would recommend that, but there isnīt.

ViktorSebastian
05-14-2012, 06:42 AM
Thanks for the insight. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the units before purchase. I am going with the lower budget option so the MixPre it is. It also doubles as a sound card which is a nice added bonus.

Grug
05-14-2012, 06:44 AM
My plan is to capture to my PIX240 (both audio and video) for shots that require audio, and just run with the camera by itself whenever sound isn't required.

That way every shot I shoot, is respectively ready to just drag and drop onto the timeline.

ViktorSebastian
05-14-2012, 06:48 AM
I was also thinking about that, but what put me off is that the PIX220/240 Can’t record audio without a video signal.

Oh, how good a the mic pre-amp on the PIX240? Are they powerful enough or do you need a separate Mic pre amp as well?

Grug
05-14-2012, 06:56 AM
I was also thinking about that, but what put me off is that the PIX220/240 Can’t record audio without a video signal.

So just record your video at the same time - the BMC will have the full debayer on the SDI output, so you'll get the same level of quality from ProRes/DNxHD as you would in-camera. So just record to the PIX when you need audio - you'd have it there anyway if you needed it just for audio, so it's hardly an added inconvenience. And you get the added benefit of synced sound at the end of the day! (saves a tonne of time).

If you really want to shoot RAW, then use the PIX to record ProRes LT proxies and full-quality audio at the same time.

You can also use an XLR-1/4" cable to output the PIX's incoming audio back into the BMC.

Whatever the case, you're certainly not short for options with the PIX.

ViktorSebastian
05-14-2012, 07:01 AM
You are right. But it is also useful to have the option to have the audio detached from the camera. But overall, it sounds great. The main problem is that the PIX240 is $2500! Maybe a bit further down the road.

Kavadni
05-14-2012, 07:47 AM
When external recording sound I use a Roland R-26