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View Full Version : FS: Aaton 7 Super-16 LTR 54 Les bosher mods with GREAT Russian lens



ChrisRL
03-06-2018, 11:46 AM
Fist enquiry:

Up for very reluctant sale is my beloved Aaton 7 LTR 54, ex-BBC model and upgraded to S-16 by Les Bosher of the UK. Also with it is a late-model Russian 10-100mm with a matching 0.75x wide adaptor, also collimated by Les and matched to this camera. Wooden handle, Les's custom front-end to 15mm rod system, three mags, onboard battery (needs re-celling). No tap but obviously tap capable. Also soft barney, hard shell case, original Aaton soft case.

I'm sure everything is working, just haven't used it lately. Will run it up and take a video if anybody wants to see it.

Photos are here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Feuvko377cSaV_Glry3QSsExMHCxmEju?usp=sharing

Best offer for everything? Add Paypal fees and let me know your address for shipping estimates, at cost.

I also have a bunch of outdated, frozen 16mm neg (maybe 3,600ft) that a local buyer can have as well.


[EDIT: Upon closer inspection, it seems Les did more magic than I'd thought. This is in fact an LTR70 HS mod, goes up to 70fps. I only discovered that when doing the run test and seeing what speeds were actually available. So this is a lot more camera than at first meets the eye. And three mags to boot, plus it's running like a top!]


Thanks!
Chris

dop16mm
03-07-2018, 12:21 PM
I wish I could justify putting an offer on this, always wanted an Aaton, but my eclair hasn't shot anything in nearly 20 years. Does that lens actually cover super16?

ChrisRL
03-07-2018, 12:42 PM
Sure does, even out to 7.5mm wife open!

shijan
03-07-2018, 07:12 PM
Does that lens actually cover super16?

This is 16OPF12-1 2.5/10-100mm zoom lens with wide angle attachment. It was used in 16mm KINOR cameras but this one seems DIY adapted to AATON mount. It is for standard 16mm film, not sure about actual S16 film format but it will not cover BMPCC/BMMCC sensor on most focal lengths. I own this lens long time ago (it is newer and better model than OPF12-120). It is very nice image quality and build, looks more modern than vintage, 10 or 12 blades iris (slightly ninja star shaped) and image looks very interesting. There are some samples on youtube with GH camera.

Quote from Olex Kalynychenko at cinematography.com:


lens have a set of original rear filters.
- compensative filter,

- correction filter 4500K, ( 4500K-3200K) (morning, evening light, evening-glow, daybreak , filter formula 313-222=+91, between 85(+112) and 85C (+81)
I think, filter factor + 2/3

- correction filter 6000K ( 6000K-3200K ) ( midday light, 313-167=+146, near filter 85B ( +131)+ 81A ( + 18)
The filter factor + 1 stop.

- correction filter 8000K ( 8000K-3200K ) (blue, light nebulosity sky, filter formula 313-125=+188 )
This like 85B ( + 131 ) and 85C ( + 81)
The filter factor + 1,1/3 stops.

- neutral density filter HD6, 2.2x ( + 1 stop )

- neutral density filter ND7 4.8x ( near + 2,1/3 stop )

This is special filters and possible use a original filters only, because, this is filters have original body.
The zoom lens will work correct with one from set of filters on rear side of lens.
If you not set any filter on zoom lens, the zoom lens not will work.
If you not need any correction you need set " compensative filter ". This is clear filter similar of UF.

The filters have marks on body ( the compensative filter can not have any mark).
This is digitals : 4500K, 6000K, 8000K, words ND6 2.2x, ND7 4.8x.

If you need use other filters, you can set a gelatine filter between rear glass of zoom lens and front side of compensaitive filter.
You can use similar idea if you will need correctiontilter and neutral density filter at one time.

Here are 10mm and 100mm samples (not mine) shoot with Panasonic GF2

https://i.imgur.com/l2tVOH1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QdLlOkh.jpg

P.S. I was so fan boy of this lens that even make a 3D model for one of my projects at that time :)

https://i.imgur.com/CO6LVRd.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/AI7lkX2.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/NBOjwkg.jpg

ChrisRL
03-07-2018, 10:39 PM
Yeah sorry to say it, but I just spoke to my DP and we both concur that this particular lens didn't vignette when wide open in S16.

I don't remember it doing that with its 0.75x on either.

He's going to double check tomorrow and see if he can't get a picture of the GG/gate. I'm in AZ on a shoot until Friday and will confirm as well when I get back.

Not trying to mislead anybody here, just don't remember it being as bad as, say, a 12-120 in S16, which is definitely insufficient coverage.

I"ll post findings one way or the other

Chris

shijan
03-07-2018, 11:25 PM
Really interesting to see it. Actual S16 film circle may be slightly smaller than BMMCC sensor. When i was able to use 16OPF 10-100 i don't have BMMCC camera to test it, so i just compare sensor coverage tests of that lens done by other people. Later tested only 16OPF 12-120 and figure that vignetting highly depends of combination of zoom+focus distance setting to the object.

ChrisRL
03-08-2018, 09:54 AM
Good morning!
Yes, you're correct, it's smaller:

Taken from this site, the BMCC sensor size is 15.81x8.88mm, yielding a sensor diagonal length of 18.1331mm (which would be the theoretical standard focal length for this format)
The Super-16mm gate size is 12.52x7.41mm, which yields a 14.548mm diagonal length.

You can do the math yourself - if I recall correctly, the sensor or gate diagonal is the square root of the sum of the squares of each side.
Trying that out on my (t)rusty memory and the standard 135 gate of 24x26mm, that gives me the correct diagonal of 43.2mm (which is the true standard length of a full-frame 35mm stills camera).

So going by the diagonals, you can see that the diagonal focal length of the BMCC is almost 25% longer than that of S16 film.

While the comparative areas would only be around 5% different, based on the above, the circles of coverage would be more in line with the diameters of those circles, which would be more like 25%.
And when we're talking corner vignetting, I think the diagonals tell a clearer story than the areas.

But that's just my thought.

ChrisRL
03-08-2018, 04:43 PM
And yes, my DP has the camera out and just this second re-confirmed - absolutely NO vignetting with this lens on this camera.

Pictures and video available here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nUnhDdUXxCsH1O_QxjMd5mj7G4x_xQpS?usp=sharing

Yes, you'll want the black lines to the sides of the regular GG mask. I had Les do that so I could keep all my 16mm options open.

25805

25806

Sorry, but these were taken with my DP's cell phone - not the best solution but more than adequate for this use, I'd expect. As you can plainly see, the lens coverage is much more than sufficient unto the task at hand.

ChrisRL
03-08-2018, 04:46 PM
Shijan, I know you're not familiar with the UK cinematography game, but just FYI, I'd look up to see just who Les Bosher is before you go labelling his work as DIY. Really, I would.

dop16mm
03-08-2018, 11:21 PM
Les Bosher is the man, I looked into getting him to do my eclair npr years ago, but my lens didn't cover so wasn't worth it. Good thing I'm broke right now, so tempting. It's entirely possible the lens may not cover a digital sensor like the pocket without slight vignetting, they react differently.

ChrisRL
03-08-2018, 11:42 PM
Quite right, DOP16mm. I'm fairly certain that in the digital world, shijan is quite correct, in that the BMC sensors are actually just that much bigger so that this lens just won't cover at full wide.
But I'm going to say that when it gets out to, say 12mm to 15mm, then it's like all the rest of the 16mm lenses, good to go for S16 easily, and probably for BMPCC as well.

Funny story, my DP, the fellow who just tested this camera this afternoon and took the non-vignette shots for me, actually looked through the lens and commented on the "dreamy" quality of the image, even off the GG. I replied that this is the real film look, not the BMC, RED, or Arri "film look". Even to his young eye, the difference between what he's been shooting (Red Epic, Alexa Mini) and what he was seeing through that Aaton viewfinder quite literally smacked him in the eye.

Also let me repeat what I told him: the main reason why S16 didn't come out of the gate as a wonderful shooting medium for HD TV is that the then-existing film stock, Eastman ECNii and iii, had a grain structure that didn't lend itself well to HD telecine. So S16mm got disqualified and left behind in the race to 4k. However, today's new stocks have gotten around that TC limitation and so there's not a lot to be lost when one is shooting S16 in a scripted production environment with film discipline on set. (obviously not in reality style pray-and-spray, but that was always the province of the TV/video camera anyway).

I have a good friend who is a national-level commercials director, and for several hard-hitting ads, music videos and PSAs, she goes straight for S16 to telecine to 4k. That's the look she likes, that she's known for, and that works. Minimal lighting, placed properly, and done deal. Of course, it also helps to have a producer around who knows what they're doing as well, as she has. Unlike a beginner who wants to control it all themselves.

shijan
03-09-2018, 07:05 AM
Shijan, I know you're not familiar with the UK cinematography game, but just FYI, I'd look up to see just who Les Bosher is before you go labelling his work as DIY. Really, I would.
I don't mean DIY as something bad here. I was just wonder to see this unique Kinor16 to Aaton lens mount adapter. It looks quality made.

ChrisRL
03-09-2018, 07:47 PM
shijan, I'll take some closeups of the lens mod for you when next I have the camera out.
Best
Chris

Denny Smith
03-09-2018, 08:05 PM
I don't mean DIY as something bad here. I was just wonder to see this unique Kinor16 to Aaton lens mount adapter. It looks quality made.

Shijan, a better way to express this in English, is to use “Custom Made” instead of DYI. A camera specialist machine shop mad bit like this would be a “professional custom made mount” if this helps, but yes, I got what you meant to say the first time round.
Cheers my friend .

shijan
03-09-2018, 10:37 PM
Shijan, a better way to express this in English, is to use “Custom Made” instead of DYI. A camera specialist machine shop mad bit like this would be a “professional custom made mount” if this helps, but yes, I got what you meant to say the first time round.
Cheers my friend .

Ok, thanks for tip. "professional custom made" is exactly what I meant.

ChrisRL
03-12-2018, 10:59 PM
Latest: just so's you know, I finally actually had a look inside the Anvil camera case - the foam's shot (as would be expected) but there's a manual inside - and not one but two spare 400ft-ers! So this camera comes with 3x400ft mags. How cool is that?

I'm going to get a 12v XLR cable with the battery eliminator and also the car charger and run the camera, shoot a video of it running, and post it with the rest of the photos. I'll do the closeups of the lens mount mod at that time.

Exciting stuff!

Best
Chris

ChrisRL
03-13-2018, 06:51 PM
Finally found the power cable, hooked her up... and ran her!

Here's the test, at 54fps: CORRECTION - this is at 70fps!!!!

https://vimeo.com/259968341

password: chris

I'd still say do a quick check-over and CLA before serious use, though, but that would be up to you, since the camera is now demo'd running, and consistently, smoothly, quietly, and to spec.

Photos of the mount still to follow, as it's terrible weather here, zero daylight.


Best

Chris

ChrisRL
03-13-2018, 10:41 PM
After looking at the camera and running it some more, I thought the motor ran kinda louder than I remembered it to run, and so I had a closer look at it.

I realized the following:

1) this is not an Aaton 7 LTR54 it's an Aaton 7 LTR70 (HS). In my test, the camera was in fact running at 70fps, which is why the motor ran louder than I remembered.

2) it has sync speed 24/25 fps, crystal controlled. At sync speed the camera is totally silent (as I remembered it to be)

3) it has variable speed 6-70fps (not infinitely variable but at 6, 12, 16, 18, 20, sync, 28, 32, 54, and 70fps)

4) it's working reliably off cheap 12v motorcycle batteries (but runs them down REALLY fast!)

5) it's fully functional. Again, I personally would get it CLA'd before I put it into service on a feature film or a commercial, but basically it works just as it should.

So it's probably priced, at $2,500 or so, at around 50-60% of its used market value.

I also have an older O'Connor 30 head and legs, and an older Chrosziel 4x4 matte box I could sell at a deep discount, since they all went together in a set.

Also, don't forget - if you have a BMCC 2.5k, then you can use this lens on it and just zoom in to crop off the vignetted part - I reckon you'd still be at around 2k, which is DCP format. Same with the 4k cameras - yes, it wouldn't be as wide but i could still use it, especially if I were finishing on 1080p or DCP.

ChrisRL
03-14-2018, 05:59 PM
Very lastly now... :-)

Here's the complete rig, with O'Connor 30 head and legs, and the older Chroszeil 4x4 matte box. Also the three cases, the other two mags, and the soft sound barney.
Closeups of the Les Bosher mount mod are also in this folder:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1gMIGhHjDF-mRxsqjgMSM4-myCDUkyHeG?usp=sharing

Other bits and bobs: a bunch of 16mm plastic cores, film bags, one Aaton to Arri-PL mount adaptor, one Aaton to Nikon lens mount adaptor, one spare Amphenol stop-go plug (for making up a long remote on/off switch).
The mags all have their Aaton caps, the body has a front and rear cap as well.

I do have soft bids on the entire rig now, and several buyers lining up.

Best
Chris

ChrisRL
03-22-2018, 02:38 PM
Sorry, I erroneously mentioned the power plug as an Amphenol 2-pin. Of course, this is a Lemo FFA OS302 2-pin spare male plug that's included.
Best
Chris

ChrisRL
04-04-2018, 01:47 AM
CAMERA IS SOLD !!

Many thanks to all who replied.

All the best
Chris