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bowman
11-03-2012, 05:02 AM
Can anyone remember digital images looking as organic and filmic without any lighting? Awesome.

I think the BM has something Red, or Arri Doesn't have. A certain organic image that jumps out at you. Red should stop worrying about Sony/Canon and start worrying about BM.

Found it online.

http://vimeo.com/52703842

Lorenzo Straight
11-03-2012, 05:13 AM
Yeah, the footage has a certain punch to it. The footage is just a bit shaky is all.

bowman
11-03-2012, 05:23 AM
Yeah, the footage has a certain punch to it. The footage is just a bit shaky is all.

The shakiness is forgivable I think as its using a telephoto at the long end zoom and seems handheld, IS seems on I'm betting though.

Liam
11-03-2012, 05:48 AM
The guy at 2:56 was like, what the hell is that thing! haha.
Not too bad looking footage!

adam777
11-03-2012, 08:42 AM
Cool! More footage :)

PapaG
11-03-2012, 12:30 PM
This shakiness is very similar to the 5DMKII. I wouldn't even call it shakiness, as it is not due to operator's hand-held usage. I would call it "jitters." It's due in large part to the rolling shutter. Hand-held shakes are acceptable, even desirable in certain shots for effect, but the jitters are not. Unless you're trying to use this effect to show that a character in your story is shooting video with a DSLR or a BMC (give it time to work itself into the lore of our culture), you wouldn't want to use this as a main camera for narrative use unless it's your only option shooting on sticks and stabilizers. All that said, it's a definite step-up from the DSLR universe in terms of image quality for the price, and a hell-of-a go from Black Magic's first effort. I can't wait to see their next camera with a Super35mm sensor, global shutter and real tactile buttons for under $5k. If they don't do it, the first camera company that does will dominate the world.

Kholi
11-03-2012, 12:37 PM
Well, jitters have nothing to do with rolling shutter at all, really. It's ergonomics and the interaction of the human body with an object that either doesn't have enough weight or too much weight in a given shooting position.

The wrists of most people are typically not trained or strong enough to support a light or heavy camera in an outstretched position. Along with that, nerves in general are to be factored in. There's a reason why snipers go through breathing training, and/or take sedatives to relax themselves.

You don't need to shoot on sticks, you don't need a stabilizer, you just need to actually practice shooting handheld with the camera, increase the weight and get a strap.

John's new OLD footage is a pretty perfect example of shooting handheld after having been using the camera for several weeks.

EDIT: Also, at least from the beginning of this clip, the camera is on a tripod. The lens isn't supported and likely too long to go without support, one, and the tripod's motions make it feel like it's a cheap Manfrotto sort of deal.

PapaG
11-03-2012, 12:40 PM
Yeah, I thought I would get that reaction. I'm not talking about natural camera shakes from hand-held use. I'm talking about tiny little jello-effects. You can see it in the first few seconds. Like I said, "stabilizers." {Increase the weight and get a strap}

Kholi
11-03-2012, 12:44 PM
Yeah, I thought I would get that reaction. I'm not talking about natural camera shakes from hand-held use. I'm talking about tiny little jello-effects. You can see it in the first few seconds. Like I said, "stabilizers." {Increase the weight and get a strap}

Got it. usually when people say stabilizers they're referring to blackbirds or steadicams.

Even if the jello wasn't there, it'd still be pretty unusable, that part comes from lack of practice. But, this is on a tripod, and the fact that the lens is clearly not supported properly (for this application) and the tripod is weak makes it the way it is.

David
11-03-2012, 01:08 PM
Can anyone remember digital images looking as organic and filmic without any lighting? Awesome.

I think the BM has something Red, or Arri Doesn't have. A certain organic image that jumps out at you. Red should stop worrying about Sony/Canon and start worrying about BM.

Found it online.

http://vimeo.com/52703842

I am not suggesting that the BMC is better than Arri or Red but I do think that there will certain shoots were people will choose the BMC mainly for the image it produces and not because of a budget constraint. It does have a very organic look, whatever that means, it has a uniqueness to it that's hard describe in technical terms. It looks/feels very direct.

robmneilson
11-03-2012, 01:10 PM
The guy at 2:56 was like, what the hell is that thing! haha.

I just assumed he gave that look considering it's 1945.

KyleMcConaghy
11-03-2012, 03:08 PM
Yeah, i think you can get this same effect with the FS100, which has a good reputation for its manageable rolling shutter. I think the small sensor is giving the allusion of more shake. A 50mm lens on a BMCC is going to give you the same level of shake you would get at 70-80mm on a FS100, C300, etc. You didn't notice any of that micro shake on JB's handheld comic shoot b/c he was using a rig.

Not saying this cam has minimal rolling shutter. Just saying I think the sensor size makes it tougher to work around than a 35mm sensored camera.

Liam
11-03-2012, 05:40 PM
First of all, there is no handheld in this video at all, it's all on a tripod. The shake can come down to 3 things.

1. Shit tripod
2. Tele-photo lens
3. Adjusting/Leveling the tripod whilst recording

JBs latest footage was all handheld and there was minimal/no shake what so ever.

bowman
11-03-2012, 06:07 PM
I'm not sure how anyone can say for certain if it's on a tripod or not from the footage. If it is is on a tripod then possibly the shake is from unsteady sticks or the IS is on which would account for jumps in the footage. Like I said its a telephoto lens on the BMC, 24-105 so ts forgivable.

The thing I thnk people forget is no movie consists of 2 minute shots, editing would take away a lot of the bumps on the footage if you wanted to, the eye tends to accept a bit of shakiness in shots that are 1-2 seconds long.

dustylense
11-03-2012, 06:13 PM
First of all, there is no handheld in this video at all, it's all on a tripod. The shake can come down to 3 things.

1. Shit tripod
2. Tele-photo lens
3. Adjusting/Leveling the tripod whilst recording

JBs latest footage was all handheld and there was minimal/no shake what so ever.
I agree. this looks like the camera was on toothpicks. Plus, he does a focus adjust and starts the wrong way on the barrel telling me this guy is kinda a rookie operator. The footage looks fine.

Kholi
11-03-2012, 06:43 PM
I'm not sure how anyone can say for certain if it's on a tripod or not from the footage.

Experience with poor gear tells us it's on a tripod. That is not handheld.


If it is is on a tripod then possibly the shake is from unsteady sticks or the IS is on which would account for jumps in the footage.

It's from a weak head and sticks, it's not from IS.

bowman
11-03-2012, 06:59 PM
Fair enough but then the shakiness is purely user error where some have suggested its a camera issue. I was just trying to point out this fact.

Kholi
11-03-2012, 07:04 PM
Accurate.

If it was camera error then we should all be afraid. Skynet is closer than we imagined.

Being incapable of controlling a camera is definitely not the cameras fault. As some would have others believe.

jaaz
11-04-2012, 01:52 AM
It helps its an overcast day, gives it that soft look.

Liam
11-04-2012, 02:47 AM
The creator of the video replied to a question I asked about it being shot on a tripod...

"Tripod was bad and light"

So yes, it was shot on a tripod and yes, the tripod was shite.

Dale
11-04-2012, 11:09 AM
Great to see new footage. Not a big fan of the grade. A little too saturated for my tastes, it does however show the great skin tones and even the red in the badges stand out nicely :)

Kholi...when are you putting a new post up in the camp comet blog?

stip
11-04-2012, 01:27 PM
I think the BM has something Red, or Arri Doesn't have. A certain organic image that jumps out at you. Red should stop worrying about Sony/Canon and start worrying about BM.


someone's a bit too euphoric here :)

Kholi
11-04-2012, 02:21 PM
Kholi...when are you putting a new post up in the camp comet blog?

I guess soon. Was waiting on the colorist I use to mess with some of the runaround stuff we picked out, but I think he's too busy.

Also... kind of realized somewhere middle of this year that I didn't want to be a blogger. Haha. Wasn't going to update it until I started shooting another feature, and as I got into distribution with Avery and Pete. That's stuff I would be okay with spending time on.

There's more personal value in showing how I managed to do a 10-20K hard funds Supernatural Thriller feature than say talking in circles about the new Sony Cameras. Not my thing, although I thought it would be initially.

Dale
11-04-2012, 03:39 PM
I see what you're saying.

Damn shame though, I could see it really taking off man.

So you done edit wise with Avery & Pete?

Where can I watch it? (Happy to spend cash/monies)

strancali
11-04-2012, 04:33 PM
Kholi is the sh*t, the guy knows what he's talking about and is always ready to help. His explanations are always detailed :)

Ok back to BMC thread :)

bowman
11-05-2012, 12:38 AM
someone's a bit too euphoric here :)

Who would you be worried about Sony who pushes out not quitre as good as RED products for more money or BM who are lowballing the market. I'm not syaing they are worried, but maybe they should be with this kind of quality coming from a $3,000 dollar camera (first one too). If BMC put a 35mm sensor or even an electronic mount MFT then definetly they will if they arent already biting hard into their market base. And no I dont think RED are the kind of company to be scared of anyone, but costs definetly are coming down across the board. Red cant charge massive amounts anymore apart from high end professionals who will pay for the edge.

hmcindie
11-05-2012, 08:17 AM
Yeah, i think you can get this same effect with the FS100, which has a good reputation for its manageable rolling shutter.

What? It has the exact same amount of rolling shutter (in 25p mode) as the Sony EX1/EX3 and older Sony CMOS cams like the V1U HDV cam and even the Sony HC1. Rolling shutter is not any better in the FS100 than those cams.