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Fluoro
10-30-2012, 12:29 AM
Sony mean business. Wow.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/resource.solutions.bbsccms-assets-show-highend-F5.shtml

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/resource.solutions.bbsccms-assets-show-highend-F5.shtmlhttp://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/show-highend/resource.solutions.bbsccms-assets-show-highend-F55.shtml

nickjbedford
10-30-2012, 12:30 AM
Solid!

But still 20,000 Euros or more. Understandable for the cameras that they are. Just... no alternative to the Blackmagic.

David
10-30-2012, 12:40 AM
Damn, the F65 just got siblings. These cameras look badass too.

Jason M.
10-30-2012, 01:26 AM
Looks like someone's been taking a few pointers from RED. I like the look of that global shutter, too.

nickjbedford
10-30-2012, 01:44 AM
Anyone want to shout me an F55?

dustylense
10-30-2012, 01:48 AM
How about an 8k F65? http://www.studiodaily.com/2012/10/sony-details-f65-roadmap-heading-into-2013/
Sony leads the way.

Liam
10-30-2012, 02:16 AM
I love Sony, they are a massive conglomerate who ACTUALLY listen to there customers (be it some people refuse to think so, what are they supposed to do, wipe your ass?) and then deliver, in a well mannered way, unlike some other companies...? wonder who.

Bravo Sony, if only you could fix the color rendition in the cameras, I would once again become a Sony customer.

Frank Glencairn
10-30-2012, 02:27 AM
Really like the form factor - looks like a real camera instead of Canon's C-series that looks like a melted blob.
Also - from a sheer design standpoint - it looks a bit "90s Walkman" design to me - would prefer a bit more industrial/tactical for my taste,
but with things like global shutter and Bayern layout of the 65 chip - I could not care less about the design of the box.

The only thing that I'm missing are XLR inputs - can't believe you need a separate module for that.
Rest of the hardware layout is excellent

Let's see what the images look like - maybe they finally have the motion rendering right.

Frank

Wuudi
10-30-2012, 02:37 AM
Hmm but no definitive pricing. ..so how is Red going to calculate their discounts tomorrow ;)

Greyfus Wolf
10-30-2012, 04:13 AM
Hmm but no definitive pricing. ..so how is Red going to calculate their discounts tomorrow ;)

Maybe they'll just drop back to their pre-2011 pricing, EPIC-X at 28k instead of 34,500

ianim8
10-30-2012, 05:51 AM
Maybe they'll just drop back to their pre-2011 pricing, EPIC-X at 28k instead of 34,500

Im all for the drop in price even across the line-up at RED, but Im hoping the put all their eggs in upping the ante on their existing line-up with firmware and upgrades.
I would pay an extra 6K for the Dragon upgrade on my Scarlet even it only gets me 8K/24, 5K/120 which would mean 4K/180+...I can keep going :)

mikowolf
10-30-2012, 07:18 AM
the specs and look of the camera are realy nice.
Hope to see some footage soon ^^

refocusedmedia
10-30-2012, 07:19 AM
Cool. Another camera that will cost $50k for a working package. Pardon me while I contain my excitement.

Lorenzo Straight
10-30-2012, 07:25 AM
I just know these cameras are going to be expensive. No answer to BMD yet.

Brian@202020
10-30-2012, 07:29 AM
4K/2K RAW + XAVC 2K*/HD
4K/2K RAW + MPEG-2 HD422

MPEG-4 and MPEG-2 compression but in RAW? Is it just me or does that sound like a souped up Chevy Cavalier? I wonder if it's Long-GOP.

EDIT: found it, 4K is I-Frame 300mbps.

nickjbedford
10-30-2012, 07:31 AM
I think it's raw plus MPEG-2, not some soupy mixture.

Mmm. Soup.

Brian@202020
10-30-2012, 07:41 AM
I think it's raw plus MPEG-2, not some soupy mixture.

Mmm. Soup.

Yes I see that now. RAW is via external recorder, the AXS-R5 RAW recorder (which is an additional cost for both the recorder and firmware to implement it). Also it looks like It'll only ship with XDCAMHD50. The other codecs are "Future Upgrades" (will also cost extra). Not even a souped up Chevy Cavalier, it a stock base model Chevy Cavalier with ground effects, and the future ability to add more horse power for a lot of money. Very underwhelmed, and if I was in the market for a camera in that price range there are several I can think of I'd want more.

Frank Glencairn
10-30-2012, 07:43 AM
Yeah, you can record both at the same time on the same card.

And what's wrong with a souped up Cavalier, was on of my first rides. :cool: ... and it I thought it was way cool, back than.

Matthew Sonnenfeld
10-30-2012, 09:41 AM
It's no secret that Sony rushes products to market and these cameras are the same story. A prime example in my opinion. We have here two new cameras that have some cool technology but are not ready for prime time. A lot of features coming in firmware updates, some will be paid, including RAW recording, and that has to be on an external recorder. If this is a RED competitor, RED records 4K 16 bit RAW internally to REDCODE. What type of RAW is the Sony recording? And by the time we're all said and done on this, after waiting for all the paid firmware updates, I'd bet the Scarlet will be cheaper, even before RED's price cut tomorrow.

I think pricing wasn't announced because they probably don't know yet, not to hide it from RED. Sony just doesn't know because so much is not yet in the camera. Sony announced that the FS700 would get a RAW recorder to enable the 4K and that never actually happened. It will now get the F5/55's recorder which will probably be priced as an F accessory, not an FS accessory. No wonder Sony never gave pricing or hardware information on the FS700 RAW recorder. They were intentionally holding it off for this announcement.

Amr Rahmy
10-30-2012, 10:19 AM
sony will actually produce a 16 bit image, not just write to a 16 bit file. the rest of your post is too comical to reply to.

ianim8
10-30-2012, 11:55 AM
Yeah, you can record both at the same time on the same card.

And what's wrong with a souped up Cavalier, was on of my first rides. :cool: ... and it I thought it was way cool, back than.

Chevy Vega, re-framed to handle a 327 block....then as the years go by raising puppies....Pontiac Sunfire :(

Hey at least I can admit that :)

Matthew Sonnenfeld
10-30-2012, 01:54 PM
Honestly I think that the F3 was one of the best cameras ever made. I'm not anti Sony cameras. What bothers me is not the cameras. I fully admit that these new cameras are going to be fantastic and produce a beautiful image and the global shutter in the F55 will be incredible. What bothers me simply, and what I meant before and probably should have elaborated on instead of ranting, is how Sony releases products that tout these incredible specs that aren't really in the camera. The F3, as much as I love it, did not have S-log on release and it was a $4000 firmware update. A few months later after the C300 and Scarlet were released, the S-log firmware began to ship free with the camera. It should have been there in the first place in my opinion. Or it should have been free the whole time or early adopters should have had some sort of compensation. It's he same story on the FS100 when it came to ND filters. They said NDs couldn't fit in the E mount. A year later and the FS700 has ND filters. It just took time to figure out how. But in that time, Sony put out a camera that lacked features that were important to many people and were on previous products. The same story with the EX1 to the EX1-R with improved ergonomics and weight distribution. Now to get the 4K RAW that was marketed with the FS700 you will need to pay for a firmware update, pay for an additional interface unit, and buy the new RAW recorder for the F5/55, and the memory cards for that unit.

From Sony:

With an optional firmware upgrade the NEX-FS700E will output 4K bitstream data over 3G HD-SDI. The HXR-IFR5 interface unit has a 3G HD-SDI input and will produce the 4K RAW data to record onto the Access Memory Card in the AXS-R5 Recorder.

It just all sounds very expensive to me.

My problem with Sony has never been the cameras themselves or the sensors or the capabilities even. Rather it has been a feeling that the end user suffers as a result of how Sony releases products and accessories, often necessary to use the original product as originally advertised and intended.

Greyfus Wolf
10-30-2012, 02:12 PM
BTW a site now has pricing of the F5 and F55 up online and the F5 page lists detailed specifications if you scroll down the page :)
http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-pmw-f5.html

Matthew Sonnenfeld
10-30-2012, 02:18 PM
Detailed specs in Sony's PDF

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/show/highend/pdf/F55_Camera.pdf

Frank Glencairn
10-30-2012, 04:03 PM
BTW a site now has pricing of the F5 and F55 up online and the F5 page lists detailed specifications if you scroll down the page :)
http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-pmw-f5.html

Those prices (especially the F55) look fishy - is that a legit shop?

David
10-30-2012, 04:13 PM
If that price on the F55 is legit all I can say is it's been nice getting to know all of you folks... but yeah that price is way to low for that camera. I'm guessing somewhere in the mid 30s to sit between the F5 and F65.

Abobakr
10-30-2012, 04:19 PM
looooooool, if those prices are true, man!!!!

David
10-30-2012, 04:39 PM
What's awesome about the BMCC is that at $2,995, it fits with in my regular operational budget by simply buying that instead of a few days of renting. I have to figure the exact conversion rate but at roughly $24,000 I have to convince the wife it's worth dipping into savings which is no easy task. But wow, if images the F55 produces are remotely close the F65 this may be a cam worth having. That price has to be a mistake. 2 BMCCs, no conversation needed already paid for, 1 F55 means no back up cam or 2 cam shoots plus a LOT of convincing to do.

Ryan Paige
10-30-2012, 04:58 PM
It looks like it's finally time to upgrade from my VX2000.

Fluoro
10-30-2012, 05:45 PM
Just learnt it takes standard v-lock batteries on the back. That is too fantastic. Glad I went with vlock for the BMC.

Fluoro
10-30-2012, 05:47 PM
What's awesome about the BMCC is that at $2,995, it fits with in my regular operational budget by simply buying that instead of a few days of renting. I have to figure the exact conversion rate but at roughly $24,000 I have to convince the wife it's worth dipping into savings which is no easy task. But wow, if images the F55 produces are remotely close the F65 this may be a cam worth having. That price has to be a mistake. 2 BMCCs, no conversation needed already paid for, 1 F55 means no back up cam or 2 cam shoots plus a LOT of convincing to do.

I'm a single man. All my arguments will take place in my head: Logic versus Emotion. Wont be pretty.

Abobakr
10-31-2012, 12:02 PM
a video demonstration of the F55

http://www.sony.nl/pro/lang/en/nl/article/broadcast-professional-camcorders-pmw-f55-video

pharpsied
10-31-2012, 01:51 PM
Cool. Another camera that will cost $50k for a working package. Pardon me while I contain my excitement.

:D

pharpsied
10-31-2012, 01:59 PM
What bothers me simply, and what I meant before and probably should have elaborated on instead of ranting, is how Sony releases products that tout these incredible specs that aren't really in the camera. The F3, as much as I love it, did not have S-log on release and it was a $4000 firmware update. A few months later after the C300 and Scarlet were released, the S-log firmware began to ship free with the camera. It should have been there in the first place in my opinion. Or it should have been free the whole time or early adopters should have had some sort of compensation. It's he same story on the FS100 when it came to ND filters. They said NDs couldn't fit in the E mount. A year later and the FS700 has ND filters. It just took time to figure out how. But in that time, Sony put out a camera that lacked features that were important to many people and were on previous products.

But people still bought the cameras in droves... if the market will bear it, sell it.



It just all sounds very expensive to me.

My problem with Sony has never been the cameras themselves or the sensors or the capabilities even. Rather it has been a feeling that the end user suffers as a result of how Sony releases products and accessories, often necessary to use the original product as originally advertised and intended.

Everything we have heard about film is that this time of democratization is welcomed because film was so expensive that no one but the ones who could afford it could do it. Now, anyone with a DSLR can claim mastery over film and call themselves a filmmaker. This is industry keeping it in the hands of people with the money and you can always tell by the way they market codec use; One is for Feature Film use, the other is for "budget" film use...
What the H is a "budget" film?
Guess.
That's right, yours/ours.

teh
10-31-2012, 02:10 PM
did he say base sensitivity is iso 1600? Let's stack some NDs...

rick.lang
10-31-2012, 03:44 PM
did he say base sensitivity is iso 1600? Let's stack some NDs...

It comes with ND 0.9 and 1.8 built-in but outdoors that may not be enough unless you are shooting 240fps.

hmcindie
11-01-2012, 06:05 AM
It's he same story on the FS100 when it came to ND filters. They said NDs couldn't fit in the E mount. A year later and the FS700 has ND filters. It just took time to figure out how. But in that time, Sony put out a camera that lacked features that were important to many people and were on previous products.

Are you gonna be mad at BMC too if they release a V2 BMC next year with a s35mm sensor and ND filters? How many years should pass before releasing a new cam so it doesn't upset anyone?

adam777
11-01-2012, 06:11 AM
Are you gonna be mad at BMC too if they release a V2 BMC next year with a s35mm sensor and ND filters? How many years should pass before releasing a new cam so it doesn't upset anyone?

Looking forward to another camera :)

Grug
11-01-2012, 08:31 AM
It comes with ND 0.9 and 1.8 built-in but outdoors that may not be enough unless you are shooting 240fps.

That's 3 stops and 6 stops respectively, that's a LOT of ND.

Osslund
11-01-2012, 08:44 AM
To be realistic. If you need more to tame light beyond the ND1.8 I would suggest to close the iris a couple of stops.

rick.lang
11-01-2012, 08:44 AM
That's 3 stops and 6 stops respectively, that's a LOT of ND.

I was thinking of trying to shoot in bright outdoor conditions (snow or beach) with the lens wide open. At 24, 25, 30 fps with 180 degree shutter, I don't know if 6 stops is enough to let you use a T1.4 lens and certainly not a T0.95 lens. I agree for anything you light yourself, it's all you'd need and more.

rick.lang
11-01-2012, 08:46 AM
To be realistic. If you need more to tame light beyond the ND1.8 I would suggest to close the iris a couple of stops.

Agree. And certainly easier to keep focus.