PDA

View Full Version : MYTHERAPY multi-camera shootout coming ...



Peter J. DeCrescenzo
10-15-2012, 04:10 PM
This will be ... something, especially when they do the "reveal" on 10/25:

http://vimeo.com/51455065


http://vimeo.com/51455065

... hopefully they at least put a lens hood on the BMCC, if not a matte-box ...

:)

rawCAM35
10-15-2012, 04:15 PM
Will be the day

Lorenzo Straight
10-15-2012, 10:15 PM
Looking forward to seeing this video. Looks like I have a date on the 25th.

daveswan
10-16-2012, 05:15 AM
That BMC the guy was holding looked very like the m4/3 version, and the lens looked very Voightlander-ish.

I want mine waaah :(:D.

The results will be VERY interesting, esp if teh BMC land in the same ball-park as teh Epic or F65

Tom
10-16-2012, 05:23 AM
That BMC the guy was holding looked very like the m4/3 version, and the lens looked very Voightlander-ish.

I want mine waaah :(:D.

The results will be VERY interesting, esp if teh BMC land in the same ball-park as teh Epic or F65


It is very clearly an EF mount version which he is holding and features throughout the video.

-------
I just hope they film the BMCC in RAW and not just ProRes log.

Something which worries me a little bit in terms if bias is how at the end it says its a "4k camera test". I hope the test feels impartial. I expect the results from best to worst to be Sony, BMCC, RED - I'm no big fan of sony cameras but that's just my little prediction.

Fabián Matas
10-16-2012, 06:43 AM
Well no mean to offense "the test" but if they didn't use same lenses(seeing the video doesn't seem like they did) is not that fair. I mean is not fair to compare color you can get from a cooke S4 with a tokina anyways I want to see It, my prediction is that BMCC will surprise us I'm really amazed about those skin tones.

EDIT: In the video they sony and RED use Leica Summilux-C not sure about BMCC.

morgan_moore
10-16-2012, 06:44 AM
Interesting.

You know - I dont like sony - I dont know why - but ive ended up owning three, each is IMO the best in class - FS100, EX1, Nex5n, not to mention my sony lavs and cans, and now Im going to have to wait to see their next offeering

S

John Brawley
10-16-2012, 07:10 AM
It's EF mount. (which makes a comparison hard because they won't be using EF mount on the Sony, or probably the EPIC.

My prediction.

Here's hoping they have shot with DNG's before and know how to expose the camera best to get the most out of it.

I'd predict they will be really impressed by the colour gamut available and the way the dynamic range works in a very linear way up into clipping. They will prefer the way the skin tones look on the BMCC over the RED. The F65 should win for DR and total colour gamut, but not by much.

The image will be softer in a pleasant sort of way by themselves, but will have the least resolution.

jb

morgan_moore
10-16-2012, 07:15 AM
Here's hoping they have shot with DNG's before and know how to expose the camera best to get the most out of it.

+1 !

Not looking like it from the opening frame shot!

S

metaljesus
10-16-2012, 07:27 AM
Looking forward to this.

daveswan
10-16-2012, 08:03 AM
OK, my bad I wasn't watching full screen and paying more attention to the pretty models :o

If they're using Leica glass (Even if it's cine glass) on the Red and Sony, would it not make sense to use Leica R glass on the BMC? I would expect it to be a better colour-match than Canon glass.

pharpsied
10-16-2012, 06:05 PM
Yet another thing I have to wait for...

rawCAM35
10-17-2012, 11:07 AM
Will see if these numbers make any difference on the final image

Sony F65 65,000.00 Camera body only, compressed
RED Epic 39,000.00 Camera body only, compressed
BMD 2995.00 plus DaVinci , UltraScope and an internal battery, uncompressed CDNG raw

Wuudi
10-24-2012, 07:50 AM
Tomorrow's the day ;)

Eli Hershko
10-24-2012, 09:30 AM
It's EF mount. (which makes a comparison hard because they won't be using EF mount on the Sony, or probably the EPIC.

My prediction.

Here's hoping they have shot with DNG's before and know how to expose the camera best to get the most out of it.

I'd predict they will be really impressed by the colour gamut available and the way the dynamic range works in a very linear way up into clipping. They will prefer the way the skin tones look on the BMCC over the RED. The F65 should win for DR and total colour gamut, but not by much.

The image will be softer in a pleasant sort of way by themselves, but will have the least resolution.

jb


John,
what is the best way to expose for the camera? are you setting zebras at 100% and protecting your highlights knowing that you might raise some details in the darks?

David
10-24-2012, 10:01 AM
I've used the Epic but have never shot on an F65. On paper it would seem F65 is going to lay the Smack Down on the Epic pretty hard. Seems to be a real beast and an actual competitor to the Alexa, maybe even better than the Alexa? It's definitely a camera I'm dyiing to rent. Now I just need a project with the budget for it.:)

From looking at the specs and some of the sample footage it matches the Alexa DR with a true usable 14 stops set up as 7-/7+ but is also higher res taking a page from Red, and awesome for low light taking a page from Canon, and no RS issues. Can't wait to see if this holds true during the test.

metaljesus
10-25-2012, 11:45 AM
It's now (almost) 6pm in London on Oct 25. Where is this thing? I'm waiting with baited breath ... (as I'm sure many are).

Felix
10-25-2012, 11:57 AM
Yep, maybe they just forgot, lol

mhood
10-25-2012, 12:07 PM
It was only an ESTIMATE.

David
10-25-2012, 12:10 PM
So who's going to sue them for this unforseen delay? :D

Brian@202020
10-25-2012, 12:19 PM
So who's going to sue them for this unforseen delay? :D

Costa (over at the Blackmagic forum) will have a hissy fit if it doesn't show by midnight, and he'll wait up :)

metaljesus
10-25-2012, 01:07 PM
This aint even a trickle ...

metaljesus
10-25-2012, 01:10 PM
If you're gonna try and hype something by releasing a trailer instead of just cold releasing the actual content, you could at least get it online when you say you're going to. :)

Ahh the parallels are funny. Some one is going to call me a selfish entitled brat for the above statement.

David
10-25-2012, 01:17 PM
They don't owe you a video! :). Just kidding, I want to see it too.

whoatemyteeth
10-25-2012, 02:12 PM
Maybe BMD stopped them because the cam looked terrible in comparison. Crazy theory time!!

ichichich
10-25-2012, 02:26 PM
...or maybe Red or Sony found it...counterproductive ;-)

softdrinks
10-25-2012, 02:45 PM
Maybe BMD stopped them because the cam looked terrible in comparison. Crazy theory time!!

What has BMD to lose in this comparison anyway. They're a 3k camera compared to 40k and upwards cameras.

metaljesus
10-25-2012, 02:47 PM
You could kinda believe they might be having tech issues, but you'd have thought they'd have uploaded it a few days ago and set it to private.

Most likely it'll turn up tomorrow.

David
10-25-2012, 02:47 PM
I think Sony has the most to loose since they have what would appear to be a clear advantage. If the F65 doesn't kick ass then that price would be unjustified. BMC has the most to gain since they are charging so little and has the obvious best bang for the buck factor.

metaljesus
10-25-2012, 06:52 PM
Huh. The 25th is over and they didnt deliver.

mhood
10-25-2012, 07:06 PM
It was only an ESTIMATE...+ or - four or five months...mostly +....ok, always +.

podio
10-25-2012, 07:10 PM
I know how you feel.

1479

Felix
10-25-2012, 07:30 PM
All those announcements about shipping a camera in July; delivering a promised camera review, reminds of an old quote from Konrad Adenauer (first chancellor of Germany):

"Was interessiert mich mein Geschwätz von Gestern!"

roughly (more or less) translated: "What do I care about my verbiage from yesterday!"

Yuns
10-25-2012, 08:25 PM
Dado Valentic of MyTherapy D-Cinelab posted on his twitter "Ruby & Eve launch was great. Camera Tests were never more fun. It was great to see you all. We will post more online tomorrow. " So looks like they had a live launch of the tests and posting video tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/titoheron

mhood
10-25-2012, 08:27 PM
If you're going to invent a doomsday machine, you should tell everyone about it.

metaljesus
10-26-2012, 01:23 AM
So 'the results revealed' acutally meant to a small number of people sitting in a cinema. Bloody hell. The whole point for a company to spend time and money on something like this is to raise their profile (in a positive way). Fail.

matt garrett
10-26-2012, 03:06 AM
OR, its to inform their clients what results they should expect with each camera.

Frank Glencairn
10-26-2012, 03:14 AM
Cricket, .... cricket.... cricket..

tumble weed rolling by.....

cricket....

metaljesus
10-26-2012, 04:28 AM
OR, its to inform their clients what results they should expect with each camera.

That makes sence for a private internal thing, but if that's the goal why promote it online?

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 05:01 AM
Costa (over at the Blackmagic forum) will have a hissy fit if it doesn't show by midnight, and he'll wait up :)

I did wait up and it didn't show... but I didn't throw a "hissy fit". If I had known it was expected of me I would have done it! I feel I have let you guys down:(

nickjbedford
10-26-2012, 05:05 AM
I did wait up and it didn't show... but I didn't throw a "missy fit". If I had known it was expected of me I would have done it! I feel I have let you guys down:(

Letting the team down bro! ;)

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 05:10 AM
Letting the team down bro! ;)

I know. I know. I can only say it's been frustrating for me too. There was a delay in my eye sensors comprehending the massive lateness of the video. I can only blame my dad who delivered me the faulty sensors at birth. I am waiting for said supplier to update my sensors asap. When I have more information I will never update you.

On a side note... my moaning got me a free Hyperdeck studio from BMD for the lateness and delay of the pro:) So basically a loan until the Pro arrives; )

jdwyer
10-26-2012, 05:53 AM
"Mytherapy is a boutique Digital Cinema facility based in Soho, W1, we listen to our clients needs and work to make the digital cinema easier and more affordable for film-makers, producers, distributors and exhibitors."

Well I guess if you need your work to be late and unprofessional these are the the go to guys.

John Brawley
10-26-2012, 06:21 AM
Wow.

You're complaining about someone who went to the trouble of doing a camera test on their own dime and you're slagging them off.

It's ugly, the lack of generosity towards those who offer to share information.

There's such a sense of entitlement when you guys are offering NOTHING in return.....

So what if they didn't get the clip up when they said they would. It'll still probably happen. If someone does something for you for nix I say thanks, even if it's not what I would have done or wanted. Manners. Not that difficult is it ? If they don't make it then it's not like you've personally suffered a loss. There's no need at all for this kind of agro and you come off like spoilt kids.

You guys don't deserve the answers you crave.

jb
(and no need to make comparisons to BMD being late on delivery, it's a cheap shot and has nothing to do with that issue)

Billy Barber
10-26-2012, 06:30 AM
Well said John.

Hank den Drijver
10-26-2012, 06:33 AM
Well said Billy.

mhood
10-26-2012, 06:34 AM
Well said Hank.

Dale
10-26-2012, 06:35 AM
Coming out of lurker mode to say:

Well said John, Billy & Hank.

Spoilt kids comes to mind often.

jdwyer
10-26-2012, 06:35 AM
Wow.

You're complaining about someone who went to the trouble of doing a camera test on their own dime and you're slagging them off.

It's ugly, the lack of generosity towards those who offer to share information.

There's such a sense of entitlement when you guys are offering NOTHING in return.....

So what if they didn't get the clip up when they said they would. It'll still probably happen. If someone does something for you for nix I say thanks, even if it's not what I would have done or wanted. Manners. Not that difficult is it ? If they don't make it then it's not like you've personally suffered a loss. There's no need at all for this kind of agro and you come off like spoilt kids.

You guys don't deserve the answers you crave.

jb
(and no need to make comparisons to BMD being late on delivery, it's a cheap shot and has nothing to do with that issue)


Yes they are doing it off their own dime but its a commercial for their own business they are doing this to raise awareness of their own brand to make money, not out of the goodness of their heart so you would expect that they would want to come across in a professional manner and meet dates they so publicly advertise.

They are first and foremost promoting a company and a service. And you raise the issue of manners? I did not read anything that was rude or out of order. They made public announcement to get attention for their company they failed to meet a target date, thats fine no big deal but I think we are allowed to comment on the fact. So when someone makes a remark, joke or observation they are no a "spoilt kid" Gimme a break.

And John for the record I'm a big fan of your work and contribution but on this one I disagree with your over reaction.

mhood
10-26-2012, 06:37 AM
Well said jdwyer...seriously...everyone has motives.

Dale
10-26-2012, 06:45 AM
When they post the video, which will more than likely be today, everyone will forget how "unprofessional" they are.

The fact they haven't released the video on time is only creating more attention. Which in the company's eyes is no bad thing.

mhood
10-26-2012, 06:47 AM
Fashionably l8, huh?

Felix
10-26-2012, 06:47 AM
I´m no spoilt kid, I´m just dissappointed! I was looking forward to this :(

Dale
10-26-2012, 06:49 AM
Fashionably l8, huh?

I suppose so :)

metaljesus
10-26-2012, 06:49 AM
Yes they are doing it off their own dime but its a commercial for their own business they are doing this to raise awareness of their own brand to make money, not out of the goodness of their heart so you would expect that they would want to come across in a professional manner and meet dates they so publicly advertise.

What he said.


If you're gonna try and hype something by releasing a trailer instead of just cold releasing the actual content, you could at least get it online when you say you're going to. :)

Ahh the parallels are funny. Some one is going to call me a selfish entitled brat for the above statement.

I called it!

Dale
10-26-2012, 06:51 AM
In the meantime, check this out.

http://vimeo.com/45725037

Awesome-sauce.

Brian@202020
10-26-2012, 07:05 AM
I did wait up and it didn't show... but I didn't throw a "hissy fit". If I had known it was expected of me I would have done it! I feel I have let you guys down:(

Ha! You let us all dow Costa :)

Billy Barber
10-26-2012, 07:47 AM
Yes they are doing it off their own dime but its a commercial for their own business they are doing this to raise awareness of their own brand to make money

Really? How many clients have the time or inclination to weed through bmcuser and the like looking for the best camera testers?

jdwyer
10-26-2012, 07:53 AM
Really? How many clients have the time or inclination to weed through bmcuser and the like looking for the best camera testers?

Hey Billy

I'm sorry but I don't get the point your making in the context of of the quote.

Simon Shasha
10-26-2012, 08:35 AM
Is this video still coming out?

Frank Glencairn
10-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Still no word? I wonder what happened.

Wuudi
10-26-2012, 11:03 AM
Maybe they have upload problems like OneRiverMedia ..but then again, they could say something :)

mhood
10-26-2012, 11:05 AM
Do they have a forum we could log on and badger them about it? :-)

Hank den Drijver
10-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Well said, mhood.

Jules
10-26-2012, 11:16 AM
Is this video still coming out?

I've got the word from Dado (MyTherapy) that it's finished and soon as I get it, will post a link.

Jules

gmfb
10-26-2012, 11:53 AM
I wonder if having a BMC in your hands makes yourself behave like Black Magic communications-wise. They behave as silly as them - announcing the video one week in advance instead of just uploading the damn thing when it's finished and promote it then. I mean, they present themselves as a company on vimeo, take a big mouth and can't deliver in time ...

Barry Green
10-26-2012, 12:07 PM
Yet another reason why it is asinine to pre-announce anything.

I think the attitude on display by some over-entitled whiners is ridiculous, unacceptable, and intolerable, but I further point out -- if these guys hadn't pre-announced it, they wouldn't be encountering this response.

Of course, the proper response is for people to grow up, realize that nobody owes them a damn thing, and IF they bother to release it at all, they're doing you a FAVOR.

But we all know that's not gonna happen.

I'm with you, JB.

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 12:19 PM
Yet another reason why it is asinine to pre-announce anything.

I think the attitude on display by some over-entitled whiners is ridiculous, unacceptable, and intolerable, but I further point out -- if these guys hadn't pre-announced it, they wouldn't be encountering this response.

Of course, the proper response is for people to grow up, realize that nobody owes them a damn thing, and IF they bother to release it at all, they're doing you a FAVOR.

But we all know that's not gonna happen.

I'm with you, JB.

Since when did it become acceptable to miss deadlines in our industry? I missed that memo.

Also jb (and now you) name calling is not a mature response. Don't get me wrong I think you know a lot about cameras... more than jb in fact. I like you as a person but name calling is beneath you.

As for jb saying they don't get anything out of this. Bullcrap. They get advertisement and maybe endorsements. Also jb are you saying YOU never got anything from BMD. Maybe a camera or free flights and hotels to preach the BMD gospel as they see it?

You definitely got recognition from it. I had no idea who you were before this camera was announced. However Roger Deakins you still certainly are not. That guy has some respect. Respect enough not to call the people that view his stuff whiners.

Trevor Roach
10-26-2012, 12:19 PM
Yet another reason why it is asinine to pre-announce anything.

I think the attitude on display by some over-entitled whiners is ridiculous, unacceptable, and intolerable, but I further point out -- if these guys hadn't pre-announced it, they wouldn't be encountering this response.

Of course, the proper response is for people to grow up, realize that nobody owes them a damn thing, and IF they bother to release it at all, they're doing you a FAVOR.

But we all know that's not gonna happen.

I'm with you, JB.

Ditto.
I appears they *did* release it yesterday...just only for a live group of people. Hopefully today we can all see it. If not...lets enjoy the weekends! =)

jdwyer
10-26-2012, 12:21 PM
Yet another reason why it is asinine to pre-announce anything.

I think the attitude on display by some over-entitled whiners is ridiculous, unacceptable, and intolerable, but I further point out -- if these guys hadn't pre-announced it, they wouldn't be encountering this response.

Of course, the proper response is for people to grow up, realize that nobody owes them a damn thing, and IF they bother to release it at all, they're doing you a FAVOR.

But we all know that's not gonna happen.

I'm with you, JB.


I think at this stage everyone including moderators should just relax and not take opinions and obvious jokes as personal attacks against them. If this company want to show their advertisement great if not great best of luck to them......moving on. You think this bad wait till people start to comment on the video if its released.

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 12:25 PM
I think at this stage everyone including moderators should just relax and not take opinions and obvious jokes as personal attacks against them. If this company want to show their advertisement great if not great best of luck to them......moving on. You think this bad wait till people start to comment on the video if its released.

Indeed. All I saw were jestful comments making fun of a poor situation. I don't think anybody is THAT annoyed, just asking questions with a bit of mockery intertwined:)

whoatemyteeth
10-26-2012, 12:28 PM
Is responsibility a thing of the past? If I promised something to someone and failed to follow through, it doesn't matter what it is, I would accept that anyone waiting on me should be disappointed, and I would own my actions.

In the past I've released anticipated videos and music on the internet for free, and if anyone interested enough to be let down by a date I missed, I felt incredibly bad that I let them down, and never acted condescending or dismissive saying that I don't owe them anything and they're babies.

Seems like a weird shift in culture that this isn't the norm.

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 12:31 PM
Is responsibility a thing of the past? If I promised something to someone and failed to follow through, it doesn't matter what it is, I would very much accept that anyone waiting on me is not a "over-entitled whiner" for being disappointed, and would own my actions.

In the past I've released anticipated videos and music on the internet for free, and anyone interested enough to be let down by a date I missed, I felt incredibly bad that I let them down, and never acted condescending and dismissive saying that I don't owe them anything and they're babies.

Wow someone with manners and understands how to treat people! Well done to you. I was beginning to think we were a minority.

jdwyer
10-26-2012, 12:36 PM
Is responsibility a thing of the past? If I promised something to someone and failed to follow through, it doesn't matter what it is, I would very much accept that anyone waiting on me is not a "over-entitled whiner" for being disappointed, and would own my actions.

In the past I've released anticipated videos and music on the internet for free, and anyone interested enough to be let down by a date I missed, I felt incredibly bad that I let them down, and never acted condescending and dismissive saying that I don't owe them anything and they're babies.


I see your point regarding deadlines and really the company are drumming up more attention for themselves by being late with the video purposely or not. I think the only issue I saw in any of the thread was when JB reverted to insulting people he does not know "spoilt kids" The reason I was surprised is that as a moderator I thought he was meant to set the tone and not get into name calling and really as an adult and professional he should know its not going to solve anything. If someone disagrees voice your opinion but insults and name calling is not on.

rawCAM35
10-26-2012, 12:40 PM
Maybe they did not mean to post it on the web on Oct 25 until a selected live audience check it out like Zacuto camera shootouts, M. Ryan noted no specifics on Vimeo a week ago " NOTE: Nothing is revealed until October 25th! Thanks, I'll be back. "

Trevor Roach
10-26-2012, 12:40 PM
Guys, lets not get upset towards each other. Its almost the weekend, =)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGd0gD0QNE

David
10-26-2012, 12:50 PM
I'm not sure what's more petty, childish behavior or people deeming it so, either way I'm getting a great laugh out of this train wreck. All I can say is must be pretty childish myself as all I can do is sit back and enjoy the show as I patiently, or maybe delusionally, wait for my camera.

mhood
10-26-2012, 12:52 PM
Wow! Just in case a mod missed it...I was joking about the badgering thing. Geez...you guys need more fiber in your diet.

Kholi
10-26-2012, 12:54 PM
If anyone has an issue with posts here, from anyone at all--moderators included, hit the report button.

On that same note, moderator isn't synonymous with machine. I'm right there with Barry and John. Between the harassment (on and off of this forum), horrible language, personal attacks and complaining, it's beyond insufferable.

AT some point it's going to come to spring cleaning, not much choice being left by the two fistfuls of posters that are making both forums bad places to be.

Help us out...

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 01:07 PM
If anyone has an issue with posts here, from anyone at all--moderators included, hit the report button.

On that same note, moderator isn't synonymous with machine. I'm right there with Barry and John. Between the harassment (on and off of this forum), horrible language, personal attacks and complaining, it's beyond insufferable.

AT some point it's going to come to spring cleaning, not much choice being left by the two fistfuls of posters that are making both forums bad places to be.

Help us out...

Again we were JOKING. Is comedy banned now? Out of interest am I one of those fistfuls? If I am I find it funny as this is the first time I have posted here in AGES.

markmwilliams
10-26-2012, 01:09 PM
If anyone has an issue with posts here, from anyone at all--moderators included, hit the report button.

On that same note, moderator isn't synonymous with machine. I'm right there with Barry and John. Between the harassment (on and off of this forum), horrible language, personal attacks and complaining, it's beyond insufferable.

AT some point it's going to come to spring cleaning, not much choice being left by the two fistfuls of posters that are making both forums bad places to be.

Help us out...

+1

I know people can get disappointed with delays or even footage not delivering what they expected etc. but there is way too much hating going on from some quarters. A bit of banter and irony is a good thing, but some of this is just bile.

And I'm getting sick of personal attacks being delivered on this forum - there's no call for it whatsoever and it's both immature and cowardly.

As a rule (and basic courtesy) don't post a comment about anyone on the Internet that you wouldn't say to their face. You know who you are, so grow up and grow a pair.

And mods, you have my total support in banning anyone who is rude and offensive to others on this forum. They don't ever seem to offer anything positive anyway.

David
10-26-2012, 01:24 PM
+1

I know people can get disappointed with delays or even footage not delivering what they expected etc. but there is way too much hating going on from some quarters. A bit of banter and irony is a good thing, but some of this is just bile.

And I'm getting sick of personal attacks being delivered on this forum - there's no call for it whatsoever and it's both immature and cowardly.

As a rule (and basic courtesy) don't post a comment about anyone on the Internet that you wouldn't say to their face. You know who you are, so grow up and grow a pair.

And mods, you have my total support in banning anyone who is rude and offensive to others on this forum. They don't ever seem to offer anything positive anyway.


I am asking a question not making a statement, is telling people to "grow up and grow a pair" not an attack, offensive and rude?

Felix
10-26-2012, 01:37 PM
Yet another reason why it is asinine to pre-announce anything.

I think the attitude on display by some over-entitled whiners is ridiculous, unacceptable, and intolerable, but I further point out -- if these guys hadn't pre-announced it, they wouldn't be encountering this response.

Of course, the proper response is for people to grow up, realize that nobody owes them a damn thing, and IF they bother to release it at all, they're doing you a FAVOR.

But we all know that's not gonna happen.

I'm with you, JB.

Great, you know what. Let´s do an experiment. I tell you now that you´ll get a big present from me on christmas. It will be so great!
Then, after christmas when you ask me: "Hey what´s going on man?" I´m gonna yell at you: "WHAT? WHAT?! I DON`T OWE YOU ANYTHING! Your attiude is unnacceptbale! Grow up!"


That´s the way I understand your text.

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 01:38 PM
Great, you know what. Let´s do an experiment. I tell you now that you´ll get a big present from me on christmas. It will be so great!
Then, after christmas when you ask me: "Hey what´s going on man?" I´m gonna yell at you: "WHAT? WHAT?! I DON`T OWE YOU ANYTHING! Your attiude is unnacceptbale! Grow up!"

This man makes a very good point.

Kholi
10-26-2012, 01:38 PM
Barry did say that they shouldn't have pre-announced anything...

David
10-26-2012, 01:42 PM
Barry did say that they shouldn't have pre-announced anything...

Kholi you are using logic, you can't win debates with logic!

mhood
10-26-2012, 01:42 PM
Yes, but they did pre-announce and there's no changing that.

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 01:44 PM
Barry did say that they shouldn't have pre-announced anything...

Oh Barry said they SHOULDN'T have pre-announced it. Good point they're not wrong we are (sarcasm). Come on it's basically what we are saying so what is your point? They did and they made a mistake now let's move on from this insanity.

Felix
10-26-2012, 01:51 PM
It´s not even bad that they missed the deadline. As long as the just wrote a quick comment on vimeo like: Hey all you waiting guys. Video will be up two days later.

And noone would complain

Costa Louvieris
10-26-2012, 01:54 PM
It´s not even bad that they missed the deadline. As long as the just wrote a quick comment on vimeo like: Hey all you waiting guys. Video will be up two days later.

And noone would complain

Indeed. It's called common courtesy.

markmwilliams
10-26-2012, 02:02 PM
I am asking a question not making a statement, is telling people to "grow up and grow a pair" not an attack, offensive and rude?

I actually think it's an honest statement about people's behaviour as opposed to a personal statement

Hank den Drijver
10-26-2012, 02:21 PM
Well said, everyone.

mhood
10-26-2012, 02:26 PM
Well said, Hank.

Fabián Matas
10-26-2012, 02:48 PM
I think that people is getting nervous and sometimes making judgements from people who probably don't know personally, this is just a forum, we can debate but trying to be in the other people point of view is something good. JB was the first to say that the test will probably be unfair due to the use of cine lenses in the sony and red VS the still lenses of the BMCC, so he is not against your point not them just is expressing his own opinion(I have the same one).

Guys I'm sure that there is no need to make bad blood.

Simon Shasha
10-26-2012, 02:52 PM
I've got the word from Dado (MyTherapy) that it's finished and soon as I get it, will post a link.

Jules

Thanks for the reply, that's great to know, looking forward to it :)

Jules
10-26-2012, 04:39 PM
Hi Folks,

Results of the Sony F65, Red Epic vs BMCC shootout camera test by Mytherapy...

http://www.mytherapy.tv/lab/

1483


Cheers,
Jules

JoeyL
10-26-2012, 04:45 PM
Hi Folks,

Results of the Sony F65, Red Epic vs BMCC shootout camera test by Mytherapy...

http://www.mytherapy.tv/lab/


Cheers,
Jules

..... lol?

-Cheers

Brian@202020
10-26-2012, 04:59 PM
Well I'm glad to know the F65 is better when shooting black and white, and the BMCC is better when shooting flashing lights and dissolves. What the hell did I just watch?

Roman
10-26-2012, 05:02 PM
What the hell did I just watch?

lol... I was thinking just that. Glad they could give us something... however I am interested to know what that something actually was.

thegregferris
10-26-2012, 05:02 PM
Can I have my five minutes back?

Roman
10-26-2012, 05:03 PM
So in all seriousness... not trying to knock anyone for their efforts, but was that the actual "shootout" or is there a more technical side to this that's still coming?

matt garrett
10-26-2012, 05:05 PM
Seems like the more technical things were discussed internally and won't be shown.
As I mentioned earlier, seemed to be something done for the clients they already had than something to get their internet rep. up.

Lorenzo Straight
10-26-2012, 05:12 PM
Not quite what I was waiting for. Not really much to see, as far as BMCC is concerned.

mhood
10-26-2012, 05:12 PM
I can't believe it!!! I actually agree with all you cinematographers. B&W...really? LOL!!!!

vegetableman
10-26-2012, 05:20 PM
complete shit.

David
10-26-2012, 05:25 PM
What? There was nothing informative about this. He said the F65 was the winner. Well DUH!!!! Look at price. Where in the hell was the shoot out? You know, actual comparisons...

softdrinks
10-26-2012, 05:25 PM
If I were in their position and if the BMCC matched well with the RED Epic and Sony F65, I would not want to show the results that readily either. On the website, everything is very vague and it's all about 'personal taste'. The least they could have done was to label the screen grab (and high res pics instead of the tiny thumbnails - so that we can't really look into the details?). In the end, they conclude the BMCC is best for 'The Remix', whatever that is. They overlayed graphics all over it so that it looks all vague.

mhood
10-26-2012, 05:37 PM
complete XXXX.

Careful man...Threats of banning have been made over this piece of art that was selflessly given to our community. ;)

whoatemyteeth
10-26-2012, 05:48 PM
So, they don't name the cameras, hiding them with A, B, C, but then only show one camera at a time in the video, so you never really get a chance to compare anything. It was like a blind set up that went nowhere "and everyone is a winner".

I guess if you want to shoot a normal video, go with the RED. Want to add crazy "remix" "street style" effects or b&w? Go with the other cams.

Weird.

rawCAM35
10-26-2012, 06:15 PM
I really could not believe that they can pile s..t that high, why this Remix S..t EFX applied to the BMD camera footage and not to the other two cameras, in the first place why an effect is needed here, we need to see how theses cameras handle skin tone and overall look, I know what the BMD camera has to offer, I have seen it on other posts, and that is why it is worth it for me to wait.

refocusedmedia
10-26-2012, 06:18 PM
Uploaded 24 minutes ago...


http://vimeo.com/52264357

This whole thing has been an amazing practical joke, I must say.

Fabián Matas
10-26-2012, 06:26 PM
I'm speechless...

Dale Campbell Films
10-26-2012, 06:35 PM
You have to go to their site to view it as it is hidden from Vimeo and only available as an embed there (am I jaded in thinking it's a bit of traffic generating SEO etc for their site....)
go here -

mytherapy.tv/lab (http://mytherapy.tv/lab)

#

My thoughts which I have already posted on the original video -

DaleCampbellFilms PLUS 1 minute ago

Thanks for taking the time to post these, I know it takes a lot of effort to put this kind of thing together. That said for me the film was a tad disappointing, you may have compared the cameras but as an audience we aren't privy to much of the detail that would make this worthwhile.
Also there is a trend in shootouts to spend more time focusing on how each camera can be good in the right hands/set/situation etc.
It may not be obvious to everyone and I appreciate that but what would have been useful here was not affirming any of them can be right but seeing what the differences in skin tone are, how much this was evened out in the grade, how easy it was to match them. Each piece presented in the way it was grading and all served little purpose in this context.
Perhaps this was something everyone looked at in more detail at your launch/party and maybe the whole thing was really geared to that and not the online version...
I would really like to know more about everything outlined : )

titoheron
10-26-2012, 06:49 PM
Ok Folks, I think there is a need for some explanation.

We have agreement with model management to display images only on our website so you have to go to:

www.mytherapy.tv/lab to see the results

First of all we have had premiere on 25th at our studio and maybe that was not quite communicated in the making of video.
In order to analyse cameras one has to look at very high quality display device. This is the only way how to spot true difference. This test makes sense only if you are in front of good monitor and screen in order to be able to see differences.
We have used for our test Dolby monitor.
This test was always meant to be for screening rather than for online use.
It is seriously boring for you to look at side by side images of these cameras over vimeo. It is just not going to give you much more information.

However if you like side by side, have a look at this image and try to guess. Which one is which camera?

1491

matt garrett
10-26-2012, 06:56 PM
Off the very low res image i would guess:
A: Epic
B: BMC
C: F65

Hank den Drijver
10-26-2012, 07:03 PM
I'm sad, titoheron.

Dale Campbell Films
10-26-2012, 07:11 PM
Just think about the people your addressing ; ) We love all that 'boring stuff'
Also it really wasn't a shootout, totally an opinion piece... where everyone walked away with a prize.
These are high resolution cameras, still frames from each doing the same shot at the same time is a given.
If your only purpose was the screening then a tweet with a twitpic would have conveyed all the info you supplied in these videos.
I would wager I could get a similar image out of my GH2 with control of lighting etc.... especially if I was using a different model shooting in a different style.

We have seen all of this before of course with the big Zacuto shootouts but at least you get many opinions and can watch the footage for yourself.
What really piqued my interest was the focus on skin tones something which was not really addressed in the shootout at all (tiny pic doesn't cut it).
As I said it all takes effort etc and you don't owe anyone a thing but this was not worthwhile as publicity stunt, no real content.

Liam
10-26-2012, 07:35 PM
Well... that was a waste of time.

refocusedmedia
10-26-2012, 07:35 PM
In order to analyse cameras one has to look at very high quality display device. This is the only way how to spot true difference. This test makes sense only if you are in front of good monitor and screen in order to be able to see differences.
We have used for our test Dolby monitor.
This test was always meant to be for screening rather than for online use.
It is seriously boring for you to look at side by side images of these cameras over vimeo. It is just not going to give you much more information.

Are you aware that you are talking to a filmmaking community? This isn't the modelmayhem forum.

mbeck
10-27-2012, 12:06 AM
Ok Folks, I think there is a need for some explanation.

We have agreement with model management to display images only on our website so you have to go to:

www.mytherapy.tv/lab (http://www.mytherapy.tv/lab) to see the results

First of all we have had premiere on 25th at our studio and maybe that was not quite communicated in the making of video.
In order to analyse cameras one has to look at very high quality display device. This is the only way how to spot true difference. This test makes sense only if you are in front of good monitor and screen in order to be able to see differences.
We have used for our test Dolby monitor.
This test was always meant to be for screening rather than for online use.
It is seriously boring for you to look at side by side images of these cameras over vimeo. It is just not going to give you much more information.

However if you like side by side, have a look at this image and try to guess. Which one is which camera?

HAHAHA.. oh man.. that is funny.

morgan_moore
10-27-2012, 12:10 AM
These people are running a business, not providing a free service to us geeks.

Their stuff looks great, the chap is on camera putting the BMC in the class of the monsters.. awesome

S

clairstyler
10-27-2012, 03:04 AM
This is real strange. Publish all the material on your site than, we are a community of pixelpeepers and me myself i want to see how the diffirance is, can you please publish the results on your site? Why not?

metaljesus
10-27-2012, 06:03 AM
Well this is very disappointing. I guess most around here thought this was going to be a comparison between the cameras (because that's what the term 'shootout' means to us), and that certainly seemed to be what the trailer was suggesting.

This video really is just the 'results' and the presentation of MYTHERAPY's conclusions on the three cameras. There is no explanation of what lead to those conclusions and no way for viewers to make up their own mind about which camera they prefer.

So, what's the point of this video? It seems to be that old adage that gets kicked around the filmmaker corners of the internet that 'there is no 'best' camera, they are all just tools and each tool is different!'. Well, duh, I don't think a single person disagrees with that sentiment. The thing is we'd like to see how the tools compare to each other.

Many other shootout comparison videos online have proved that you can tell differences between cameras (and lenses, and filters, etc) when viewing high res downloaded h264 files on consumer monitors. You may not pick up on all the nuances, but that's where a knowledgeable person talking us through the footage and their thoughts on it is really helpful (see the Zacuto shootout).

No one was expecting this to be something like the Zacuto shootout. But we were expecting the cameras to be compared to each other, which hasn't happened. Seems like a missed opportunity.

Thanks for taking the time to share this with us.

It would be really great and help us in determining which image we like the most if you'd release a high (preferably original) resolution version of the 3 images of Eve. It's hard to draw any conclusions from the small web image.

Just as a side note to the forum: There seems to be this culture of insisting 'no one owes you anything so don't complain', particularly from the moderators on this forum. It's my point of view that if you tell people your going to create something and deliver it on a certain day, you do actually owe them that. Whether it's free as a community service, a marketing campaign for your own company, or a commercial transaction.

There are going to be further posts in this thread, probably by moderators, that could be paraphrased to 'be thankful they took to the time to make this and share it with us, don't complain, they don't owe you anything'. Whether or not they owe us anything really isn't the issue. I believe expressing disappointment and frustration that this video is not what it's teaser seemed to suggest it would be is completely fair and reasonable.

adam777
10-27-2012, 06:06 AM
Very happy with the BMCC, whichever one it is:

metaljesus
10-27-2012, 06:07 AM
Very happy with the BMCC, whichever one it is:

Acutally that's an extremely good point.

jaybirch
10-27-2012, 06:15 AM
Well, i enjoyed it. Not sure why there is so much resentment here. The camera you want battled well with the F65 and RED Epic and all 3 produced stunning looking results.

Forget pixel peeping, we already know the camera resolves well, is not bad in low light and can have some moire and aliasing.... What more were you expecting to learn?

You just have to assess the image quality, the look, the feel, the magic. It is clear that this test was all about seeing which camera/s created that visual impact.

All 3 cameras produced a beautiful image that would not look out of place in the highest end commercial/fashion shoot. Success for any future BMCC owners.

Liam
10-27-2012, 06:46 AM
Well, i enjoyed it. Not sure why there is so much resentment here. The camera you want battled well with the F65 and RED Epic and all 3 produced stunning looking results.

Forget pixel peeping, we already know the camera resolves well, is not bad in low light and can have some moire and aliasing.... What more were you expecting to learn?

You just have to assess the image quality, the look, the feel, the magic. It is clear that this test was all about seeing which camera/s created that visual impact.

All 3 cameras produced a beautiful image that would not look out of place in the highest end commercial/fashion shoot. Success for any future BMCC owners.

The whole point, which metaljesus has made and I'm now reiterating, is that they flashed some BMC footage around, with film burns over the top of it and then proceeded to explain what they thought.

Just show me the footage, side by side (without labelling it A,B,C), without the MTV-styled editing, and I'll make my own mind up.

jaybirch
10-27-2012, 07:02 AM
So you always show clients the rushes and log/RAW files?

It's about end product and that looks superb.

Maybe they could have used different terminology when initially talking about this test... But English is clearly not the guy's 1st language.

jaybirch
10-27-2012, 07:05 AM
I just looked back at the initial video... they talk almost exclusively about this being a test for skin tones.

The actual video discusses skin tones and why they chose each camera for each shoot, based on skin tone and contrast.

Job done... Not sure what you are all whining about.

Frank Glencairn
10-27-2012, 07:14 AM
Very happy with the BMCC, whichever one it is:

Yeah, what more can you ask from a 3000 bucks camera, but to be almost indistinguishable from a F65 and an Epic?

At least on that ABC picture.

Liam
10-27-2012, 07:20 AM
I think there is a big mis-conception here, a whole lot of us thought it was going to be them shooting with all 3 cameras, posting up the results so we could have a look and see what WE thought was best (you know, because we all have different brains and perceptions on what we think is best and what isn't, we're not robots... not yet), yet, we were given a short glimpse at the 3 cameras side by side, still not knowing which was which, so not able to come to any conclusive result. And then told that in the 'groups eyes', this camera is suited for this type of shooting?

I'm not exactly sure what their intentions where, to let us have an opinion or to make a statement?? in which case, they've achieved the latter...

softdrinks
10-27-2012, 07:20 AM
As someone has mentioned, just being mentioned with the RED Epic and Sony F65 and looking like it can hang out with the big boys is a big positive in itself. 13 stops of dynamic range, 4:4:4 chroma sampling, 2.5k resolution, RAW. What's there to even look at? The specs itself puts the BMCC among the top tier class.

Dale Campbell Films
10-27-2012, 07:34 AM
As this was intended as a 4k camera test and they brought the BMCC in at the last minute and given the talk of high quality screens etc. I think they are reluctant to show it at a lower resolution. Read into that what you will...
Image out of camera sensors isn't simply a bunch of specs, especially when you are focusing on skin tones. I feel this would have been a valid test had there actually been any comparison to see.

Also I would show someone the log/RAW so they know where all the money in grading is going, I often cut together a short before and after with half and half shots (you know a bit like what they had in the teaser!).
Anyway your shoot out is invalid, my hair is a bird.

jaybirch
10-27-2012, 07:51 AM
One thing is certain....

The negativity on here, for a completely self-funded test with fairly limited marketing value, will dissuade other people from doing anything similar.

jdwyer
10-27-2012, 08:02 AM
One thing is certain....

The negativity on here, for a completely self-funded test with fairly limited marketing value, will dissuade other people from doing anything similar.


A completely self funded advertisement. They are not doing this as a personal favor to anyone but themselves to raise their own profile and sell their own product. The ad was built to just showacse they have thesse cameras not to actually do a proper test. Its just marketing. Can we just treat this for what it is another spam like tv commercial naming products but not really telling us anything. We learn more from people like PB and JB posting their stuff so maybe next time they post something people wont be so quick to attack them. Anyway........time to change the channel we all watched their mini company promo......next.

jaybirch
10-27-2012, 08:06 AM
You've just backed up my point.

I think i will ditch this forum until cameras are shipping.

David
10-27-2012, 08:17 AM
As someone has mentioned, just being mentioned with the RED Epic and Sony F65 and looking like it can hang out with the big boys is a big positive in itself. 13 stops of dynamic range, 4:4:4 chroma sampling, 2.5k resolution, RAW. What's there to even look at? The specs itself puts the BMCC among the top tier class.

Someone else may take the time to explain why this camera does not have 4:4:4 color sampling, or point you in the right direction, but no the BMCC does not have 4:4:4 color sampling and neither does any Bayer Pattern sensor that doesn't have massive oversampling. I could be wrong here but I think you would need at least a 2 to 1 over sample to get 4:4:4 from a Bayer Pattern. Barry Green and a few others seem to have the taken the time to educate themselves on this and could provide a better response.

Dale Campbell Films
10-27-2012, 10:02 AM
As David says not 'true' 4:4:4 you would need 3 sensors with a prism splitting to RGB each with independent sensors of sufficient resolution.
Because this (and all the current crop of large chip cameras) uses a single sensor it must have a distribution of RGB pixels which means that the total count of each will actually fall below the requirements for 4:4:4

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Bayer_pattern_on_sensor.svg/350px-Bayer_pattern_on_sensor.svg.png

In fact you find that there are a greater number of green pixels than either red or blue....
You can overcome this by having an oversampling sensor where there are so many extra pixels that you can attain the required number in each colour.


But don't worry the pictures still look good ; )

rawCAM35
10-27-2012, 12:58 PM
" MYTHERAPY Camera Shootout
from Mytherapy D Cinelab "

" Camera test of Sony F65, RED Epic and Blackmagic Cameras brought to you by Mytherapy, "

They posted it as a Camera Test and a Camera Shootout , instead it is an opinion, do they have a problem of understanding the usage of these words ?

t.p.
10-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Im sorry but you dont have to be a genius to do a simple side by side or the same content shot with 3 different camera's VIDEO comparison , not stills comparison we are talking about moving images
whatever excuse they come up with
i say good publicity stunt , but there is no way in hell i am calling this a camera test or a shootout

we didnt ask for a video of this guy opinion , without showing us nothing compared - your opinion means nothing without footage and analysis
either you want to make a serious comparison and show material (side by side or at least the same shot with the same equipment ) for us to judge or show a material (of the same content 3 times with each camera ) with analysis and explanation or just dont make a "TEST" claim

titoheron
10-27-2012, 01:44 PM
These people are running a business, not providing a free service to us geeks.

Their stuff looks great, the chap is on camera putting the BMC in the class of the monsters.. awesome

S

The quote provided above by morgan_moore is spot on as far as Im concerned. Thanks for all the interest.
Signing off.
Mytherapy.

rawCAM35
10-27-2012, 01:55 PM
The quote provided above by morgan_moore is spot on as far as Im concerned. Thanks for all the interest.
Signing off.
Mytherapy.

Why did you post it as a camera test and as a camera shootout

jaybirch
10-27-2012, 01:56 PM
Signing off.


Congrats people.... Well done on chasing away someone who could have given us a real insight into a professional level shoot on the BMCC.

Patience and politeness might have seen the community get some DNGs or 1080p files to view.

Signing off too.

rawCAM35
10-27-2012, 02:01 PM
Congrats people.... Well done on chasing away someone who could have given us a real insight into a professional level shoot on the BMCC.

Patience and politeness might have seen the community get some DNGs or 1080p files to view.

Signing off too.

Too late ... thanks, the last place I will go to for " a real insight " is the Mytherapy

Barry Green
10-27-2012, 02:25 PM
Congrats people.... Well done on chasing away someone who could have given us a real insight into a professional level shoot on the BMCC.
A lesson I really hope gets learned. In its early days RedUser's members drove Claudio Miranda off that board.

Ladies and gentlemen, you will receive the community that you deserve. If you want a better community, you will have to earn it.


Patience and politeness might have seen the community get some DNGs or 1080p files to view.

And impatience, rudeness, and entitledness has driven away a place that has access to both an F65 and Epic and who could have perhaps delivered lots of useful comparisons and information. But now they're gone.



Signing off too.
I must admit I've strongly considered doing the same. And I know of at least one other high-post-count individual who has expressed the same interest. I think Philip Bloom's already written off participating here more. And frankly it wouldn't surprise me if JB were eyeing the exit or at least considering it.

I will say it again - this community will be what you make it. Respect, patience, tolerance, a welcoming attitude, and gratitude can result in a thriving environment. And the opposite leads to the opposite.

PapaG
10-27-2012, 02:29 PM
Respect, patience, tolerance, a welcoming attitude, and gratitude can result in a thriving environment. And the opposite leads to the opposite.

Agreed. Add to that Integrity and Honesty. This post did label itself as "Multi-camera shootout coming." Let's keep it real on both sides.

Dale Campbell Films
10-27-2012, 03:42 PM
The shots in the first video had flat pre-grade footage next to graded footage etc.
All along I said it was a lot of work to put such a thing together and in the end it was not work for 'our community' but their business, which is fine but they made a big thing out of having access to a BMC last minute in all likely-hood to garner hits and lets be realistic it worked a treat their website will be flying high in the rankings this week....
As far as them providing the RAW DNG, don't kid yourselves into thinking they would have, it is certainly not the case.

Titoheron stated explicitly they didn't have the rights to have the footage anywhere but their site (:rolleyes:) so providing RAW footage to this community to work with was never a remote possibility.

May I temper this by saying it is an extraordinary amount of work to put together a comprehensive shootout, I speak from personal experience making a massive microphone shootout series which took a lot of planning long days filming and then weeks editing.

The same situation exists in the audio world, you can't guarantee the audience will have access to a mastering grade listening environment/speakers/amps and the mental faculties to interpret what they are hearing. But that doesn't mean that you can't help to educate people, and when you do so you receive criticism both constructive and otherwise.

Those who have a thin skin fall by the way side quickly, if your confident in what your doing then you stand by it and give your reasons so hopefully people learn if they are wrong rather than 'logging off'.
On the other hand if it was never intended to be for general consumption and all of this criticism/answering valid questions etc. is more bother than you perceive it to be worth then fair enough 'sign off' but don't be surprised/affronted.

This is what happens when you voice opinions, people require them to be substantiated if your not happy to do that then you were never going to be an active member of the community, and it would seem you are plenty busy with real commercial work so everything is rosey for you really ; )

Finally it's the internet people, there be trolls and fakers at every-turn. You know this and you know how to deal with it and it's not by crying over milk which was never there to spill.

Costa Louvieris
10-27-2012, 03:47 PM
Come on. They posted it as something it wasn't. Are we to sell our souls for a piece of a RAW file? A company that had access to three cameras CAN do wrong. They are not immune to it. Running off and crying won't help either for crying out loud.

Yes it's a shame but I don't care to be honest. This is the simple truth of right and wrong and they were wrong.

I really wish they had stuck around to defend themselves. I stayed out of this as I wanted their opinion, but running off just makes them look guilty.

Frank Glencairn
10-27-2012, 03:51 PM
I will say it again - this community will be what you make it. Respect, patience, tolerance, a welcoming attitude, and gratitude can result in a thriving environment. And the opposite leads to the opposite.


Can somebody please carve this in stone.

Frank

Dale Campbell Films
10-27-2012, 04:05 PM
And here's how you do a good 'test' style video

https://vimeo.com/52269416

Costa Louvieris
10-27-2012, 04:21 PM
And here's how you do a good 'test' style video

https://vimeo.com/52269416

That guy is amazing. Love his work and the day to night was astonishing. He also took the complaints about his texting video well and just explained why it was done and admitted that it wasn't great for what people were expecting, but HE wanted to show off the low light side of the BMCC.

The guy is mature, does what he says on the tin and loves his work. Take note mytherapy.

softdrinks
10-27-2012, 06:13 PM
Quick question, just to confirm Prores is 10 bit, right? Would 10 bit be far off from 12 bit in terms of being flexible in post and recovering data? Would love to shoot RAW all the time but in practical terms relating to storage cost, I foresee myself preferring Prores most of the time.

Matthew Bennett
10-27-2012, 07:55 PM
Solorio's generosity in creating the above video, it should humble us all.

Great teaching tool.

mhood
10-27-2012, 08:17 PM
Marco's video was excellent. I enjoyed it gr8ly. I would love to see him do a similar comparison between 10 bit ProRes and 12 bit RAW. Outstanding work!

refocusedmedia
10-27-2012, 08:39 PM
Come on. They posted it as something it wasn't. Are we to sell our souls for a piece of a RAW file? A company that had access to three cameras CAN do wrong. They are not immune to it. Running off and crying won't help either for crying out loud.

Yes it's a shame but I don't care to be honest. This is the simple truth of right and wrong and they were wrong.

I really wish they had stuck around to defend themselves. I stayed out of this as I wanted their opinion, but running off just makes them look guilty.

THIS is spot on. They misrepresented what they were offering, were called out for it, and then had the audacity to say it wouldn't matter anyway... as if they're the only people to every produce a camera shootout and present it on Vimeo.

Sounds like they should've thought this through a whole lot more than they did, and probably shouldn't have made their "teaser" available to the public. But they did, and then they handled the negative reaction poorly to boot.

There's no denying that we could've collectively been more understanding and less hostile about it. But when you dangle such an appetizing carrot in front of an already starving community, and then give them a pinch of carrot shavings instead and tell them there's no point in giving them the whole thing... it should be easy to understand why they react the way they do.

rawCAM35
10-28-2012, 01:01 AM
Thanks Marco for the great informative video, it made me forget about the MYTH's no test no shootout test

Simon Shasha
10-28-2012, 08:46 AM
But when you dangle such an appetizing carrot in front of an already starving community, and then give them a pinch of carrot shavings instead and tell them there's no point in giving them the whole thing... it should be easy to understand why they react the way they do.

That right there perfectly sums up why everyone is so damn frustrated. If MYTHERAPY, or anyone else can't understand it, then you're not hungry enough. OneRiverMedia and Marco are a class-act. Great work, great contribution.

pharpsied
10-28-2012, 08:46 AM
I have to admit, the One River Media video was extremely informative without hype. The other video did seem... different by comparison. I was clear that their test wasn't about the community; it was for their clients and we were allowed to come along for the ride.

I think that frustration has set in here. We as a community are feeling a little morose. Anything that seems to lift the weight that the wait is having on us is a good thing. And while I agree with Barry that our community is what we make it, as Refocusedmedia said, you just can't dangle sustenance in the face of the famished and then give us something else and not have them lash out. I know people say the company hasn't "promised" anything, but they actually have. The behavior, deplorable as it is, is human nature. There are better ways to express it, but in this case, I almost agree with the nay-sayers of the mytherapy video. I personally didn't like the redirect; I don't know who they are so I didn't care about their personal opinions about anything; I was expecting to see not only the camera I bought and paid for, I wanted to see the F65 and RED and I saw them but not in the context I was promised from their initial advertisement.

I wanted to see them without the self-aggrandizing, obnoxious minutiae of the Zacuto videos and I was very excited.

I was let down by what I saw.

The MYTHERAPY video has value, just not the value they advertised. It is one more example of choosing the best camera for you beyond test data and pseudo scientific footage assessments, and if it had been advertised like that... No problem.
It honestly wasn't- problem...

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
10-28-2012, 11:21 AM
I have to admit, the One River Media video was extremely informative without hype. The other video did seem... different by comparison. I was clear that their test wasn't about the community; it was for their clients and we were allowed to come along for the ride.

I think that frustration has set in here. We as a community are feeling a little morose. Anything that seems to lift the weight that the wait is having on us is a good thing. And while I agree with Barry that our community is what we make it, as Refocusedmedia said, you just can't dangle sustenance in the face of the famished and then give us something else and not have them lash out. I know people say the company hasn't "promised" anything, but they actually have. The behavior, deplorable as it is, is human nature. There are better ways to express it, but in this case, I almost agree with the nay-sayers of the mytherapy video. I personally didn't like the redirect; I don't know who they are so I didn't care about their personal opinions about anything; I was expecting to see not only the camera I bought and paid for, I wanted to see the F65 and RED and I saw them but not in the context I was promised from their initial advertisement.

I wanted to see them without the self-aggrandizing, obnoxious minutiae of the Zacuto videos and I was very excited.

I was let down by what I saw.

The MYTHERAPY video has value, just not the value they advertised. It is one more example of choosing the best camera for you beyond test data and pseudo scientific footage assessments, and if it had been advertised like that... No problem.
It honestly wasn't- problem...

+1

BTW, if you re-read my 1st post of this thread (http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?1455-MYTHERAPY-multi-camera-shootout-coming&p=29822&viewfull=1#post29822), you may note my skepticism about MYTHERAPY's "project".

I thought they radiated more than a whiff of pretentiousness, and worse. Turns out I was correct, unfortunately. Cheers.

refocusedmedia
10-29-2012, 11:48 AM
Posted in their Vimeo comments yesterday:

Mytherapy D Cinelab PLUS 23 hours ago
We are going to take into account your requests. Let me discuss this this with company management and camera manufacturers and see what we can do.
You have to understand that we are R&D lab for many big manufactures and as such have strong contractual agreements. Also this test shoot was just part of much bigger project. However let me see what we can do...

Dale Campbell Films
10-29-2012, 12:02 PM
Glad they might be doing something else... wonder if they'll come back here or any of the other BMC boards for that matter!
I wonder if manufactures means camera manufactures?

I think if they had made everything more upfront to start with they would be receiving so much of a bashing from everyone.

nickjbedford
10-29-2012, 03:09 PM
Quick question, just to confirm Prores is 10 bit, right? Would 10 bit be far off from 12 bit in terms of being flexible in post and recovering data? Would love to shoot RAW all the time but in practical terms relating to storage cost, I foresee myself preferring Prores most of the time.

It's not as flexible, but in my test grading on provided ProRes footage, it is really quite flexible enough, especially in comparison to DSLRs and the like. Enough that I have no hesitation to shoot ProRes and reap the benefits of 5x the footage per GB and entirely NLE based edit and grading (no round trip).

softdrinks
10-29-2012, 03:17 PM
Thanks for the reply nickjbedford! That's assuring to know.

refocusedmedia
04-03-2013, 01:54 PM
So, in case anyone was wondering, I tweeted @titoheron to see if there was any update on releasing the footage in some other manner as had been alluded to by them in the video comments. Here was the reply:

"we are not allowed to publish it, but drop us a email and we might be able to help. Send to elisa@mytherapy.tv"

I don't have an interested in pursuing this, but in case some of you do there ya go.

rawCAM35
04-03-2013, 02:55 PM
I wonder who put the brakes on ?