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tihon
02-20-2015, 06:15 AM
Hi! Does anyone try this filter?

New Tiffen variND with IR cut:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1055201-REG/tiffen_77irvnd_77mm_ir_variable_neutral.html

How good it is? Can`t find any review.

I have tiffens nd 0.3 0.9 and 1.2 and i can`t say i`m happy;) Looking for a variable solution with good ir cut.

Thanks

Halsu
02-20-2015, 10:18 AM
I haven't tried that filter, but i recently bought a cheap (like, 20 times cheaper than the Tiffen) vari ND from ebay. This one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191380376965?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

As it was so cheap, i thought i wouldn't lose much by trying it out. I was actually very positively surprised by the results i got. There's a bit of brownish color shift, but not too bad, and no IR pollution to speak of. The color is rather constant across the whole range. I only did a quick and completely unscientific test, but based on it, i will probably put the filter to actual use.

The test i did:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6HmOX6Jh-XsUTRGQWxwSjE4dlE&authuser=0

There's legend of the settings used on the bottom of the screen. The f number is ???, as i used a Nikon lens with EF mount adapter, and there's no indication of the aperture on the f-stop lever.

jtfarabee
02-20-2015, 10:22 AM
The general recommendation I see around here is to use a Hoya IR cut and then use whatever ND you would like. Some guys swear by Vari-NDs, personally I use standard ND filters since they seem to retain color and sharpness better. Of course everything these days is subject to opinion. I would say this, though: If you aren't happy with the Tiffen standard NDs, what reason would you have for thinking their Variable ND would be any better?

vicharris
02-20-2015, 11:33 AM
That thing is crazy thick and I'm sure it's just an IR filter behind the polarizes. Personally for BM Cameras you should go with the Hoya IR Cut and SLR Magics new Vari ND though it only goes to ND1.8.

Note Suwanchote
02-21-2015, 03:05 AM
I haven't tried that filter, but i recently bought a cheap (like, 20 times cheaper than the Tiffen) vari ND from ebay. This one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191380376965?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

As it was so cheap, i thought i wouldn't lose much by trying it out. I was actually very positively surprised by the results i got. There's a bit of brownish color shift, but not too bad, and no IR pollution to speak of. The color is rather constant across the whole range. I only did a quick and completely unscientific test, but based on it, i will probably put the filter to actual use.

The test i did:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6HmOX6Jh-XsUTRGQWxwSjE4dlE&authuser=0

There's legend of the settings used on the bottom of the screen. The f number is ???, as i used a Nikon lens with EF mount adapter, and there's no indication of the aperture on the f-stop lever.
Hmm I might have to get this as I'm trying with a lightsetup for an upcoming vacation

goodgoings
02-21-2015, 04:33 AM
That thing is crazy thick and I'm sure it's just an IR filter behind the polarizes. Personally for BM Cameras you should go with the Hoya IR Cut and SLR Magics new Vari ND though it only goes to ND1.8.

Interesting to read about the SLR Magics new Vari ND. Are there any reports or tests that it cuts the IR pollution on BM cameras?

JuMo
02-21-2015, 05:02 AM
Hmm I might have to get this as I'm trying with a lightsetup for an upcoming vacation

I picked one of these up (the cheap ebay one Halsu linked) on some random online special somewhere last year under the brand 'Nature'. It gets some points for being light and inexpensive, but without IR cut you will get IR pollution. The slight brown cast hides it a little at first glance, but it's there. I've found rotating the whole filter to tame the polarization can do a lot for the brown cast.

The image gets quite soft by 50mm and it starts to get pretty nasty looking beyond 50mm. That softness could be useful to some, but there are some additional caveats: light halation around light sources, not too unpleasant to my eye, but something to be aware of, and it adds a bit of a distracting texture to wide aperture bokeh that can be quite noticeable in some situations (high contrast foliage being one), but stopping down disguises it nicely.

So, I wouldn't recommend it for most paid gigs (barring creative uses and personal standards, of course), but for travel or home video stuff, it's not bad in the wide to normal range, maybe some short telephoto (depending on your tastes with softness), but overall this thing looks performs better with the taking lens stopped down 2+ stops, not necessary, obviously, but noticeably superior.

Since it's so cheap you don't have to be nervous sticking about it into unpredictable and new shooting environments.

On a TV pilot I shoved this thing in a bag with a BMPCC into an icebox to get a shot with an ice scoop coming about 2 inches from the lens, which I probably wouldn't have considered doing with a more expensive filter (or camera, for that matter).

Halsu
02-21-2015, 05:33 AM
Looks like the test video i made was not public, fixed that.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6HmOX6Jh-XsUTRGQWxwSjE4dlE&authuser=0

Halsu
02-21-2015, 05:36 AM
I picked one of these up (the cheap ebay one Halsu linked) on some random online special somewhere last year under the brand 'Nature'. It gets some points for being light and inexpensive, but without IR cut you will get IR pollution. The slight brown cast hides it a little at first glance, but it's there. I've found rotating the whole filter to tame the polarization can do a lot for the brown cast.

Thanks a lot for the info - i'll do some more testing too, when i have time...

tihon
02-21-2015, 12:00 PM
I wouldn't recomend this cheap nd fader. I have the same one and it has a green color cast and x patter after 7stops i think. no ir cut. try to use it with wide lense and not at the cloudy day. You will see how ugly it is. IR cut is must have with blackmagic cameras. Im going to buy hoya pro nd, because they are one of the best for BM, and has good ir cut by default. But i still looking for a good vary nd filter with no iq degradation.

https://vimeo.com/55452414 - - really good video about filters and effects to the different sensors. You can see that tiffens with built in ir cut is very good for bm sensors, so i asked you, guys, about the filter in the first post, which seems to be good.

Thank you for your replies and sorry for my poor English.

Halsu
02-21-2015, 12:51 PM
try to use it with wide lense and not at the cloudy day.

I will - the sun had almost set the time i did my test and there was not very much light (it was actually a sunny day, but the area i shot was already in shadows). Thus i have comparable data only for the first three stops really. If the filter fails after 7 stops, well, then it shouldn't be used on such strong setting, i guess ;-)

As far as IR cut goes, based on my brief test the filter indeed seems to cut IR, as there is no change in color regardless of how many stops of reduction is used. At least this applies to the range i was able to test more or less properly.

vicharris
02-21-2015, 01:08 PM
Interesting to read about the SLR Magics new Vari ND. Are there any reports or tests that it cuts the IR pollution on BM cameras?

It does not cut IR because it is not an IR cut filter. Also why I suggested both the IR Cut and Vari ND together in my post.

vicharris
02-21-2015, 01:10 PM
I wouldn't recomend this cheap nd fader. I have the same one and it has a green color cast and x patter after 7stops i think. no ir cut. try to use it with wide lense and not at the cloudy day. You will see how ugly it is. IR cut is must have with blackmagic cameras. Im going to buy hoya pro nd, because they are one of the best for BM, and has good ir cut by default. But i still looking for a good vary nd filter with no iq degradation.

https://vimeo.com/55452414 - - really good video about filters and effects to the different sensors. You can see that tiffens with built in ir cut is very good for bm sensors, so i asked you, guys, about the filter in the first post, which seems to be good.

Thank you for your replies and sorry for my poor English.

That filter test is very old and very bad. Also the filters he tests in that video are not the same ones as these Vari NDs. It's the standard IRND filter Tiffen sells. It's in the video. These are bad for these cameras. Have you seen the ND thread we have here?

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
02-21-2015, 01:14 PM
... https://vimeo.com/55452414 - - really good video about filters and effects to the different sensors. You can see that tiffens with built in ir cut is very good for bm sensors, so i asked you, guys, about the filter in the first post, which seems to be good. ...

That AbelCine test was shot a long time ago. The Tiffen T1 IR-cut filter adds a strong cyan color cast to footage. Don't use it!

Nowadays there are vastly better IR-cut filters appropriate for use with Blackmagic camera sensors. The Hoya UV & IR cut filter is one.

Much more info here:
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?6403-4K-update-Hoya-ProND-Rolling-Report-Thread

(Hi, Vic!) :-)

JuMo
02-21-2015, 05:34 PM
The abel cine test is totally messed up and not to be trusted. There is a bunch of false information in there, I'm not sure if they screwed up the files or had some early production models of filters or what, but there are some observations in there that just don't align with others experiences with the same gear.

The Tiffen T1 adds a green/slight yellow cast, not cyan, at least the two copies I have tested do (I keep a T1 around as a backup). In the Abel Cine test they present a very mild colour cast, but in my experience it needs around a -2 green or -3 green to balance the cast. Fairly easily corrected in post (or in camera if you like to use colour filters or have WB adjust settings, such as GH series), but let's be honest: it's a bit annoying. IR cut performance is good on the T1, but the colour cast makes it inconvenient. Hoya is king of the castle right now as it just works, no fiddling.

And to further support Vic's point: unless a filter has IR cut for below 400nm (ish) and above 700nm (ish), you will be getting IR pollution, no way around it. Even if you think you aren't seeing it, it's there. You WILL inevitably find yourself in a more extreme IR pollution scenario and it will poop all over your image and you'll wish you had just kept IR cut on there. This is not just some hollow warning, this is a lesson learned by many of us the hard way. But you can only lead the horse to water.

tihon
02-21-2015, 05:45 PM
Did anyone try Hoya variable nd? maybe all Hoya filters are good with BM?)

vicharris
02-21-2015, 09:03 PM
That AbelCine test was shot a long time ago. The Tiffen T1 IR-cut filter adds a strong cyan color cast to footage. Don't use it!

Nowadays there are vastly better IR-cut filters appropriate for use with Blackmagic camera sensors. The Hoya UV & IR cut filter is one.

Much more info here:
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?6403-4K-update-Hoya-ProND-Rolling-Report-Thread

(Hi, Vic!) :-)

Hey Peter! Thanks for the link to the thread. Every new member should be required to read that and a dead pixel thread before they can get excepted :)

tihon
02-22-2015, 02:09 AM
Hey Peter! Thanks for the link to the thread. Every new member should be required to read that and a dead pixel thread before they can get excepted :)

Heh. I'm not a new member, if you talk about me... i read all this forum from start to the end:)) This thread is about tiffen vari nd with build in ir cut. I cant find any review here about how good it is with bm

vicharris
02-22-2015, 02:20 AM
Heh. I'm not a new member, if you talk about me... i read all this forum from start to the end:)) This thread is about tiffen vari nd with build in ir cut. I cant find any review here about how good it is with bm

If you say you've read everything in this forum about ND and IR cut filters pertaining to BM cameras and then tell us to watch that Able video, then you sir, have not read everything. This video has come up time and time again to include the ND and IR cut thread mentioned above, as well as my own tests with the Tiffen IRNDS and my conversations with Tiffen.

Also you say this thread is about Tiffen Vari ND with IR cut and again, you mention a video that has nothing to do with this filter. You might want to rethink your corrections towards me when you strayed off topic and we responded to it.

This IR cut thing on BM cameras is just ridiculous at this point.

Taikonaut
02-22-2015, 03:41 AM
I'm looking for IR cut 4x4 filter for matt box that is as good if not better than the Hoya IR cut for BMD cameras?

Max Minoia
02-22-2015, 04:21 AM
Skier 4x4 hot mirrors are the best ND I ever tried, on par with the Hoyas, the company also made a 4x4 UV/IR cut model, I don't know if it works well like the Hoya UV/IR cut, anyone would try it?

vicharris
02-22-2015, 12:56 PM
Skier 4x4 hot mirrors are the best ND I ever tried, on par with the Hoyas, the company also made a 4x4 UV/IR cut model, I don't know if it works well like the Hoya UV/IR cut, anyone would try it?

Yes, they all work fine.

vicharris
02-22-2015, 12:57 PM
Skier 4x4 hot mirrors are the best ND I ever tried, on par with the Hoyas, the company also made a 4x4 UV/IR cut model, I don't know if it works well like the Hoya UV/IR cut, anyone would try it?

Yes, they all work fine.

Halsu
04-30-2015, 04:30 AM
try to use it with wide lense and not at the cloudy day.

I will - the sun had almost set the time i did my test and there was not very much light (it was actually a sunny day, but the area i shot was already in shadows).

Blast from the past...

Okay, i've now used the cheap Vari-ND on a few actual shoots. Somewhat surprisingly, i've come to the conclusion that it's plenty good enough for me, for the work i do (mainly low budget commercials and corporate stuff). Here's two spots i used the filter on, that have wide angle (11-17 mm range) shots.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6HmOX6Jh-XsVEpxREFjNnZGOW8&authuser=0
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6HmOX6Jh-XsZUNTRnI0aUNRQ0E&authuser=0

The spots are in Finnish, sorry, but i guess understanding the narration isn't necessary for the topic at hand ;-)

Edit: the filter may soften the image a bit, but that's actually often a good thing: it acts as a somewhat effective AA filter (OLPF). There's less moiré problems, but the image is still acceptably sharp in my opinion. See e.g. the tree branches in the opening shot of the 2nd spot - no moiré problems to speak of there, despite it being a potentially problematic shot.