PDA

View Full Version : Updates on some features



John Brawley
04-29-2012, 04:55 AM
Hello all.

Just updating on a few things.

First of all, apparently the Thunderbolt connection will also charge the internal battery. But you won't be able to mount the SSD through the camera as I know some people plan to. This might be added later but won't be part of the shipping camera functions. They figure Thunderbolt adaptors and caddies are very inexpensive.

Also, histograms might be implemented down the track, but probably not by shipping. Waveform will actually be difficult to do. Zebras will be the primary in camera exposure tool. Or ultrascope of course if you have a laptop handy.

There is more cool stuff coming that I'm not able to talk about just yet.

JB.

RyGuy
04-29-2012, 04:58 AM
Cool thanks for the update! I'm stoked for the camera as-promised! Anything more is icing on the cake!

laco
04-29-2012, 05:08 AM
John,

I don't think so, that waveform should be a priority. I think you will absolutely need an external monitor for this camera (for example if you set the ISO, you see the menu only, not the pictre). So if you're buying a monitor, why not buy one, that has waveform, vectorscope, so on. http://www.tvlogicusa.com/product/vfm056.php

Anyway, I think these would be nice funcions (waveform, histogram), but the main thing is to get this camera ready:) And of course sensor calibration.
Everything else is a GIFT for this price.

thanks for BMD, and thanks for letting us know about these updates.

tfg
04-29-2012, 08:32 AM
Thanks for the update John. Now see if you can follow up on their timecode stuff. I want to see timecode support in this camera one way or another. Really...badly.

imdjay
04-29-2012, 09:17 AM
thanks for the update. im already pleased and everything else is icing. if i were to nitpick the only two things i would really ask, in order of priority:

+make the mount removable (seems really easy at least to me, an m43 mount which has connections for m43 lenses, but also another set of pins for the eos adapter. please everyone at the same time)
+flip the ports to the other side.

=me a clam

im sure youre on lockdown, but does either of those seem possible?

vealti
04-29-2012, 09:23 AM
Thanks John. Waveform / Histogram would have been nice but as long as it has zebras I'm good. Do you know if you can set at what level the zebras kick in?

mhood
04-29-2012, 09:45 AM
I would sure like to see a video of the BMC screen going through every possible menu setting. That would answer many of my questions.

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-29-2012, 10:11 AM
Hi John B.:

Thanks very much for the update! Personally I'm always more interested in what a product can do rather than what it can't do, despite my inclination toward wishful thinking. ;-)

Question: Are you able to confirm if the BmCC's TB connection outputs video plus data, or only one or the other?

Looking forward to more news as it occurs ...


... There is more cool stuff coming that I'm not able to talk about just yet.

After listening to Grant Petty's extensive audio interview with CreativeCow yesterday, I'm feeling even better about my decision to do business with his company.
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/blackmagic-designs-grant-petty-we-want-to-blow-your-mind

Thanks again!

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
04-29-2012, 10:14 AM
I would sure like to see a video of the BMC screen going through every possible menu setting. That would answer many of my questions.

I suspect the UI isn't frozen yet, so as useful as a menu walk-through would be, it may have to wait until ship-time. Of course I could be wrong, it which case, I'd love to see it (or a PDF user manual) ASAP, too. Cheers.

Steve4505
04-29-2012, 11:19 AM
Hello all.

Just updating on a few things.

First of all, apparently the Thunderbolt connection will also charge the internal battery. But you won't be able to mount the SSD through the camera as I know some people plan to. This might be added later but won't be part of the shipping camera functions. They figure Thunderbolt adaptors and caddies are very inexpensive.
JB.

I am not sure exactly what you mean by the above. My understanding of the Thunderbolt connection on the Mac's at this time is its almost a do everything high speed connector. http://www.apple.com/thunderbolt/ MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, iMac, and Mac mini now give you access to a world of high-speed peripherals and high-resolution displays with one compact port. That’s because Thunderbolt is based on two fundamental technologies: PCI Express and DisplayPort. What I am thinking you are saying it won't be able to be used as a secondary recording option (PCI Express function will not be included).

Its worthy of mention the Thunderbolt is a daisy chain capable connection. That would mean multiple devices in a row. I currently can output my Thunderbolt port on our Macbook Pro using a knock off mini-display port to HDMI converter into my Denon home theater receiver which gives me audio and a mirror/dual monitor on my HDTV. However, I am sure the MacBook used some type of driver to make this happen. If the Thunderbolt works for that it should be useable for many of the HDMI video monitors also provided the proper driver(s) are there and the MacBook is in the chain. What I am assuming is the Black Magic Cinematic Camera will be limited in what "drivers" are built in to enable it to output to all the various Thunderbolt devices out and to be released and/or maybe the PCI Express function will not be included.

mbeck
04-29-2012, 12:06 PM
What he is saying is that you cannot connect the camera to the Mac via thunderbolt, and expect to access the files on the SSD that you have in the camera. Think of the thunderbolt as a network commenting to the Mac.

So far, here are the only things you can do via thunderbolt:
1. Charge the camera.
2. Capture video via Media Express.
3. Use ultrascope to set exposure on the camera.

If you want access to the SSD, you will need to remove it from the camera and use a caddy of some sort to access the files.

Kholi
04-29-2012, 12:23 PM
I might be the only one that has no interest in an on-screen waveform. To me, they're useless... as long as there are zebras I'm fine.

I'm curious, though, how difficult false color/predator mode (if it's not already there) would be? That's even more useful to me than zebras.

=3 now iPad + ultrascope would be a killer way to work.

Steve Wake
04-29-2012, 12:26 PM
I am not sure exactly what you mean by the above.

He simply means you need to remove the SSD from the camera and put it in a reader/caddy (Thunderbolt or whatever) in order to offload data. You can't copy the internal SSD to external drive directly through the Thunderbolt connection, even if feeding to a laptop (and definitely not directly to another drive).

Phil
04-29-2012, 12:28 PM
2. Capture video via Media Express.


Aha this sounds good how does this work? Is there anything we can read about this program? Can it record the 2.5k raw if you have a SSD or raid set up? This is freaking exiting stuff!

Time to use Google lol

Steve Wake
04-29-2012, 12:30 PM
I would sure like to see a video of the BMC screen going through every possible menu setting. That would answer many of my questions.

In case you haven't seen this, it may answer some questions, though certainly not all: http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/story/nab_2012_is_bmd_the_new_red_part_2/

mbeck
04-29-2012, 12:48 PM
Aha this sounds good how does this work? Is there anything we can read about this program? Can it record the 2.5k raw if you have a SSD or raid set up? This is freaking exiting stuff!

Time to use Google lol
I think you can record RAW. You can get the software now, as it is part of BM's desktop video. It's a free download. But it will Have to be updated to support the camera.

randyman
04-29-2012, 05:17 PM
Aha this sounds good how does this work? Is there anything we can read about this program? Can it record the 2.5k raw if you have a SSD or raid set up? This is freaking exiting stuff!

The Media Express software seems pretty capable. I use it to capture dual-stream HD stereo 3D from my little Sony TD10 3D cam to an 8-drive RAID, using the BMD Extreme HD 3D+ card. (that's a mouthful!) Here's a screen cap of the resolutions and codecs available on my Mac in Media Express - it does all the transcoding in real time during capture. Pretty slick.

46

John Brawley
04-29-2012, 05:44 PM
thanks for the update. im already pleased and everything else is icing. if i were to nitpick the only two things i would really ask, in order of priority:

+make the mount removable (seems really easy at least to me, an m43 mount which has connections for m43 lenses, but also another set of pins for the eos adapter. please everyone at the same time)
+flip the ports to the other side.

=me a clam

im sure youre on lockdown, but does either of those seem possible?

Neither of those requests will be done anytime soon...

jb

John Brawley
04-29-2012, 05:45 PM
I suspect the UI isn't frozen yet, so as useful as a menu walk-through would be, it may have to wait until ship-time. Of course I could be wrong, it which case, I'd love to see it (or a PDF user manual) ASAP, too. Cheers.

Theres a lot of stuff still to come in the UI. The NAB was only JUST finished for NAB and a lot of the options didn't actually do anything....

jb

John Brawley
04-29-2012, 05:47 PM
Its worthy of mention the Thunderbolt is a daisy chain capable connection. That would mean multiple devices in a row. I currently can output my Thunderbolt port on our Macbook Pro using a knock off mini-display port to HDMI converter into my Denon home theater receiver which gives me audio and a mirror/dual monitor on my HDTV. However, I am sure the MacBook used some type of driver to make this happen. If the Thunderbolt works for that it should be useable for many of the HDMI video monitors also provided the proper driver(s) are there and the MacBook is in the chain. What I am assuming is the Black Magic Cinematic Camera will be limited in what "drivers" are built in to enable it to output to all the various Thunderbolt devices out and to be released and/or maybe the PCI Express function will not be included.

The camera is a perhipheral. It will pass data and video to devices that can "host". So you can use an external Laptop with another SSD to record (i believe) but not say a Thunderbolt based hard drive by itself.

jb

Robzy
04-29-2012, 09:48 PM
Thanks for the updates John. Can't wait to hear about the exciting stuff you can't mention just yet :eek:

Tony Anastasi
04-30-2012, 12:04 AM
Is it possible to attach a hyperdeck shuttle and get real time SSD backup as you shoot?

kevin baggott
04-30-2012, 12:06 AM
Hi John B.:

Thanks very much for the update! Personally I'm always more interested in what a product can do rather than what it can't do, despite my inclination toward wishful thinking. ;-)

Question: Are you able to confirm if the BmCC's TB connection outputs video plus data, or only one or the other?

Looking forward to more news as it occurs ...



After listening to Grant Petty's extensive audio interview with CreativeCow yesterday, I'm feeling even better about my decision to do business with his company.
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/blackmagic-designs-grant-petty-we-want-to-blow-your-mind

Thanks again!

What a great interview! Thanks for posting.

John Brawley
04-30-2012, 09:16 AM
Is it possible to attach a hyperdeck shuttle and get real time SSD backup as you shoot?

There is a plan to do something like this. Not sure if it's a Hyperdeck, or a laptop...

jb

Steve4505
04-30-2012, 11:27 AM
There is a plan to do something like this. Not sure if it's a Hyperdeck, or a laptop...

jb

The Hyperdeck is a very interesting option if it works (it should) because it has HDMI and HD-SDI passthru. With the Thunderbolt and HD-SDI outputs all these daisy-chaining options are quite interesting to me and figuring out what to buy/use is going to drive many of use a bit nutty before its confirmed they actually will work. Again thanks John, you've been awesome. Hope you don't get too nutty either.

Tim Nitsch
04-30-2012, 03:39 PM
Has anyone else heard of the rumors that BMD would add 60p? (Not sure at what resolution though)

I hope so! I'd be happy at 720p.

jmmusic
04-30-2012, 03:43 PM
Has anyone else heard of the rumors that BMD would add 60p? (Not sure at what resolution though)

I hope so! I'd be happy at 720p.

Where are you hearing that?!?! Would be quite wonderful.

Tim Nitsch
04-30-2012, 03:48 PM
You know I'm not 100% sure.

I thought I read that someone had asked them at NAB and they said they were looking into it or thinking about it or something.

I could be (and probably am) wrong so please don't take what I said as fact. Because its not, its just a rumor.

I was just wondering if anyone had heard it too.

KyleMcConaghy
04-30-2012, 04:47 PM
You know I'm not 100% sure.

I thought I read that someone had asked them at NAB and they said they were looking into it or thinking about it or something.

I could be (and probably am) wrong so please don't take what I said as fact. Because its not, its just a rumor.

I was just wondering if anyone had heard it too.

I think John B has said higher frame rates will definitely be implemented at some point... just not on the initial release. And probably not above 40 fps and definitely not above 50 fps. I would definitely be extremely happy with 48 fps at 1080p. Would be nice to have something that reads 'slowmo!'! Not sure if 39-40 fps would accomplish that.

John Brawley
04-30-2012, 05:19 PM
Has anyone else heard of the rumors that BMD would add 60p? (Not sure at what resolution though)

I hope so! I'd be happy at 720p.

This camera will not do 60p.

BMD have said that they can squeeze some more FPS, but it won't be as high as that.

jb

John Brawley
04-30-2012, 05:29 PM
The Hyperdeck is a very interesting option if it works (it should) because it has HDMI and HD-SDI passthru. With the Thunderbolt and HD-SDI outputs all these daisy-chaining options are quite interesting to me and figuring out what to buy/use is going to drive many of use a bit nutty before its confirmed they actually will work. Again thanks John, you've been awesome. Hope you don't get too nutty either.

Hyperdeck will definitely work on HD-SDI with this camera.

The Thunderbolt will enable some kind of dual recording or external recording of RAW DNG's..via a laptop or something like a Hyperdeck...

jb

jimagine
04-30-2012, 05:30 PM
Not sure if 39-40 fps would accomplish that.

Depending on the desired effect of course, 40 fps makes nice slo-mo.
You can get effective slo-mo conforming 30 fps material in a 24 fps timeline depending on the footage.
If BM could deliver 40fps at 1080p with this processor I'd consider it a grand slam.

I have absolutely nothing but praise for the concept, design, delivery time and price.
If they could squeeze 40 fps 1080 into the finished camera they would be gods among men...in the camera world anyway.
I'm already onboard for a pair.

Phil
04-30-2012, 05:35 PM
Hyperdeck will definitely work on HD-SDI with this camera.

The Thunderbolt will enable some kind of dual recording or external recording of RAW DNG's..via a laptop or something like a Hyperdeck...

jb

That sounds ace, I really hope via a laptop....then from that to a nice big fat raid & record all day RAW...

Andrew
04-30-2012, 05:47 PM
Depending on the desired effect of course, 40 fps makes nice slo-mo.
You can get effective slo-mo conforming 30 fps material in a 24 fps timeline depending on the footage.
If BM could deliver 40fps at 1080p with this processor I'd consider it a grand slam.

I have absolutely nothing but praise for the concept, design, delivery time and price.
If they could squeeze 40 fps 1080 into the finished camera they would be gods among men...in the camera world anyway.
I'm already onboard for a pair.

I totally agree. Even if all they can do is 36fps I'd be really happy. I know it's a non standard frame rate, but like you said even 30 played back as 24 gives a nice subtle effect so getting even a bit more out of that would be great if it's possible.

I'm in no way complaining about the features though. Higher frame rates at $3,000 would be amazing, but I'm very much on board with the current specs.

Barry Green
04-30-2012, 05:50 PM
30p will give you a mild slow-mo effect. 40fps would result in a fairly noticeable slow-mo.

Here's a video description. The first bit is the "normal" 24fps. The second bit is the slow-motion you could get out of the BMC as-is, at 30fps. The third portion is how slow things would be if (IF) they were able to get it as fast as 40fps.

https://vimeo.com/41321651

Philip Lipetz
04-30-2012, 05:55 PM
This camera will not do 60p.

BMD have said that they can squeeze some more FPS, but it won't be as high as that.

jb

Even at 720p or at compressed?

John Brawley
04-30-2012, 06:01 PM
Even at 720p or at compressed?

Funnily enough, It's actually harder to do higher frame rates with compression, because you're taxing the internal processor to "compress" the files and to then add more frames. The DSP is doing more work, not less. Added frames and added compression.

You could maybe do a windowed version of RAW with higher frame rates, but the FOV crop would start getting pretty unwieldily I think....

I really think it's best to not think of this camera if slow motion is really important to you.....

jb

Kyle Presley
04-30-2012, 07:38 PM
I would love to be able to crop to 2K and shoot with c mount lenses... That would be awesome!!!! If the camera isn't already awesome enough. Can't wait for this puppy.

Andrew
04-30-2012, 08:38 PM
Thanks for the test Barry. 40fps would be really nice, even if it crops the sensor a bit. I know it's silly to ask more from the camera because I love the specs and price as is. I think the super slo-mo of the FS700 and other cameras will quickly become the next overly used and abused style we'll see all over Vimeo. There is a place for it, but I just won't need super high speed for most of my shooting and have little interest in watching 5+ minute videos of purely super slo-mo.

40fps or so (48fps if I'm really dreaming) on the BMCC would make it so I hardly miss the high frame rates other cameras are offering. It would open the door for quite a few creative possibilities. Even 36fps, like I mentioned earlier, would be enough to really ease my desire for higher frame rate cameras.

You can't please everyone though, and honestly I just hope BM focuses on getting the camera (spec'd as is) out the door and in my hands :) If they happen to eek out a bit more magic and deliver 36 or 40fps I'll just be even more amazed!

On the topic of frame rates, I would like to see variable frame rates from 1-30. IMHO a digital cinema camera should have variable frame rates for under/over cranking and not just the video standard 23.98 and 29.97.

loganmackay
04-30-2012, 09:56 PM
I would be extremely happy with 48fps in 2.5k or even 1080 prores/dnxhd.

Erik Olson
05-01-2012, 12:58 PM
...After listening to Grant Petty's extensive audio interview with CreativeCow yesterday, I'm feeling even better about my decision to do business with his company.
http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/blackmagic-designs-grant-petty-we-want-to-blow-your-mind

Thanks again!

Petty has positioned himself very, very well (from a philisophical standpoint) with the people who will be using (and are already using) Black Magic tools. The more I hear about and from him, the more I suspect he isn't really positioning himself at all. He might just be a true champion for the entire industry.

jimagine
05-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Petty has positioned himself very, very well (from a philisophical standpoint) with the people who will be using (and are already using) Black Magic tools. The more I hear about and from him, the more I suspect he isn't really positioning himself at all. He might just be a true champion for the entire industry.

I forwarded the COW article to all of my staff and told them to study it - he represents everything that I believe in from a business perspective.
Petty reminds me of Jobs circa 1985.
Everything he says about arrogance and honesty and humility is where so many of us hoped Apple would go, but they went exactly where he says he won't let BM go.

Very impressive because his philosophy is backed up by dramatic innovation that reflects it.
I'm impressed as an entrepreneur and as a customer.

Erik Olson
05-01-2012, 01:31 PM
Steve Jobs? Not in my experience. But my grandmother told me to never speak ill...

jimagine
05-01-2012, 01:36 PM
Steve Jobs? Not in my experience. But my grandmother told me to never speak ill...

If you don't think Jobs was a visionary circa 1984 then you have a different historical experience than mine having built a creative firm in all disciplines using Apple innovations.

There's nothing wrong with speaking ill of the mistakes he made, but that doesn't alter reality or history.

I'm guessing Mr Petty would be very flattered by the comparison.

Erik Olson
05-01-2012, 02:06 PM
I wasn't speaking about vision. I was speaking to his humanity.

jimagine
05-01-2012, 02:19 PM
I wasn't speaking about vision. I was speaking to his humanity.

OK, but in the interest of staying on topic, I was reinforcing your opinion of Mr Petty and added my own reasons for asking my people to read the article.

As I said, I really like his attitude and business philosophy as he expressed them in this article.
I don't remember him discussing social issues so I didn't consider them in my opinion of either he or Steve Jobs.

Back to the nice camera his company has designed.

PappasArts
05-03-2012, 02:23 AM
I would be extremely happy with 48fps in 2.5k or even 1080 prores/dnxhd.

Yes 48fps would be awesome and not for slow-mo either, however for real time capture and playback- I find the whole slow-mo craze overused and so boring.. I was at the DGA where we were discussing this as being the future- a stepping stone over time to get to even higher frame rates. However 48fps projected is a pleasing HFR to go with- it looks very nice and a little less live than 60fps. Albeit shot on RED and Alexa it looks nothing like your ordinary video at HFR. So I hope BM considers implementing 48fps as this would be great.

Pappas
http://PAPPASARTS.WORDPRESS.COM
http://TWITTER.COM/PAPPASARTS

BlackMagic Digital Camera Info: http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?28-BlackMagic-Cinema-Camera-Technology-Announcements-amp-Latest-Info