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Cedric Akins
09-26-2012, 07:53 AM
Hey guys if you plan to use the BMDCC and the raw file format please go to the Adobe forum, join, and express your interest in more support from Adobe for this file format? Here is the link.

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4728395#4728395

Thanks.

stip
09-26-2012, 08:16 AM
Did.

Cedric Akins
09-26-2012, 08:53 AM
Thanks Stip. I hope more will do the same as well.

Fred D
09-26-2012, 01:48 PM
Done !

fxvet
09-26-2012, 02:09 PM
Hey guys if you plan to use the BMDCC and the raw file format please go to the Adobe forum, join, and express your interest in more support from Adobe for this file format? Here is the link.

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4728395#4728395

Thanks.
Done.

Vegas Bob
09-26-2012, 02:15 PM
Added my 2 cents...

mattbatt
09-26-2012, 05:33 PM
wrote them a feature request. Told em I'll jump to Avid if they wait till CS7 to implement anything.

Cedric Akins
09-26-2012, 08:01 PM
You guys are awesome. Let's keep it going.

Ian
09-27-2012, 07:50 AM
Submitted a Feature Request

MiguelFranco
09-27-2012, 08:18 AM
Feature request submitted

t.p.
09-27-2012, 08:28 AM
done

ichichich
09-27-2012, 11:02 AM
Did also...

Jglucks
09-27-2012, 03:46 PM
Done.

Cedric Akins
09-27-2012, 11:13 PM
If enough people submit feature requests (http://www.adobe.com/go/wish) to the Premiere Pro team to work on this, then they may determine that it's worth the extra work of trying to make it work faster. Let's keep this going everyone.

Frank Glencairn
09-28-2012, 02:28 AM
WTF? http://blogs.adobe.com/labs/archives/2012/09/cinema-dng-initiative-retired-from-adobe-labs.html

nickjbedford
09-28-2012, 02:46 AM
CinemaDNG is actually an open source format and Adobe apparently has had less to do with it that is commonly believed.

Not sure what this means though, but I don't think it affects Resolve or anything.

Samuel H
09-28-2012, 03:14 AM
For the current BMC, this sucks. But thinking about the future, it may be for the best: the CineForm RAW codec is being standardized as SMPTE ST 2073 VC-5, that's clearly the way forward (as instructed by CineForm, I just joined SMPTE to be able to use it; any engineers around here interested in developing a motion picture camera? I could do with some FPGA experience...).

CaptainHook
09-28-2012, 05:01 AM
Speaking of.. CineForm sounds great, but i've read the OSX implementation is buggy and not "production-worthy".. am i wrong? I'd love to try it but haven't bothered as everything i've read says don't bother on OSX.

Lorenzo Straight
09-28-2012, 09:00 AM
Very curious. Is this a joint agreement with BMD and Adobe, since Resolve will continued using the format. It is an open standard. Developers can continue to write code for CinemaDNG even if Adobe is out of the equation.

Brian@202020
09-28-2012, 09:52 AM
Adobe is probably just pulling an "Apple" and letting 3rd parties develop support tools from now on. Apple went to this philosophy with FCPX.

ianim8
09-28-2012, 11:07 AM
I just hope they are not swayed by other competing factors.
Adobe is highly visible at the other <insert rhymes with ned here> forums in the past year.

razz16mm
09-28-2012, 12:07 PM
Not sure what this means going forward. Adobe is supporting CDNG in Speedgrade CS6 at the moment. Seems like they are leaning toward the transcode and proxy workflow model for PPro.

Speedgrade supported formats page: http://helpx.adobe.com/content/help/en/speedgrade/using/file-formats.html

Peter J. DeCrescenzo
09-28-2012, 06:36 PM
Adobe has posted a clarification:
http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2012/09/cinemadng-in-after-effects-cs6-and-elsewhere.html

jabloomf1230
09-29-2012, 09:40 PM
Adobe has posted a clarification:
http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2012/09/cinemadng-in-after-effects-cs6-and-elsewhere.html

Most of the "slowness" of playing back DNG is in the disk subsystem, so I'm not what Adobe's rationale is. In fairness to Adobe, they probably figured that most of their user base would ingest DNG files with AE and then output them in some other format to PPro for editing.

nickjbedford
09-30-2012, 01:44 AM
I wonder why they don't just implement partial debayering like what REDCODE does.

It's really fast on 1/4 or 1/8th and below because it just reads in 1/4 of the resolution and debayers that. It's not pretty, but it would allow a real time workflow.

Cedric Akins
09-30-2012, 12:31 PM
I wonder why they don't just implement partial debayering like what REDCODE does.

It's really fast on 1/4 or 1/8th and below because it just reads in 1/4 of the resolution and debayers that. It's not pretty, but it would allow a real time workflow.

+1. I am no software engineer and I really have no clue as to how it is done. But this sounds solid to me.

Let's suggest this and submit this feature request (http://www.adobe.com/go/wish) to the Premiere Pro team to work on this. Let's keep this going.

BM4EVER
10-02-2012, 08:22 AM
In fairness to Adobe, they probably figured that most of their user base would ingest DNG files with AE and then output them in some other format to PPro for editing.

Could you please explain a little more how this works?

ianim8
10-02-2012, 09:34 AM
Could you please explain a little more how this works?

Basically import into After Effects and render to a format for use in target NLE.
This is how it is in the 3D world for most of us.
We render thousands of frames and import into AE for compositing and/or target to NLE such as Avid, Final Cut and Premiere.

Frank Glencairn
10-02-2012, 10:00 AM
I wonder why they don't just implement partial debayering like what REDCODE does.

It's really fast on 1/4 or 1/8th and below because it just reads in 1/4 of the resolution and debayers that. It's not pretty, but it would allow a real time workflow.

The data rate of REDRAw is a joke, compared to DNG.
On the other hand, Resolve (and even Adobe's own Speedgrade) is able to handle it somehow.

Andrew_HD
10-02-2012, 03:40 PM
Adobe is simply not interested and don't want to put any resources for proper DNG support.
AE would be my last solution for batch conversion tasks as it's incredibly slow- it's 10 years old software with poor multicore CPU support. It needs full re-write, so it can properly work with current CPUs. AE is one of the most unoptimised software out there, but no surprise if it still uses few years old engine (same as FCP). Not going even mention memory management problems :)

jabloomf1230
10-02-2012, 05:51 PM
Adobe is simply not interested and don't want to put any resources for proper DNG support.
AE would be my last solution for batch conversion tasks as it's incredibly slow- it's 10 years old software with poor multicore CPU support. It needs full re-write, so it can properly work with current CPUs. AE is one of the most unoptimised software out there, but no surprise if it still uses few years old engine (same as FCP). Not going even mention memory management problems :)

I can't comment on whether AE CS6 needs a complete rewrite, but it has very flexible settings for both hyperthreading and memory management. In fact, if you check Adobe's forums (http://forums.adobe.com/thread/734343?decorator=print&displayFullThread=true) and blogs (http://blogs.adobe.com/toddkopriva/2010/10/please-try-recommended-memory-settings-for-after-effects-cs5-and-give-feedback.html), you will see that even Adobe support staff aren't quite sure what settings give you the best performance (http://helpx.adobe.com/after-effects/using/memory-storage.html), but that is because there are so many possible permutations of number of threads and RAM use per thread (assuming that you have a dual processor workstation with 12-16 physical cores and large amount of physical RAM). AE is also dependent however, on how efficiently its plugins and codecs utilize both hyperthreading and CUDA.

I do agree with you that using AE just to convert a DNG sequence to something "more usable" is probably not the best idea.

BM4EVER
10-02-2012, 07:59 PM
I do agree with you that using AE just to convert a DNG sequence to something "more usable" is probably not the best idea.

What are the best other options?

nickjbedford
10-02-2012, 08:16 PM
If you're going to convert to another format, why not just use Resolve?

BM4EVER
10-02-2012, 08:34 PM
If you're going to convert to another format, why not just use Resolve?

+1

jabloomf1230
10-02-2012, 09:02 PM
If you're going to convert to another format, why not just use Resolve?

Pretty much Resolve, Speedgrade CS6 (which is very Resolve-like), AE or the GoPro Cineform conversion all work, if you want to edit in Premiere Pro.

Ronell M Cross
10-02-2012, 10:22 PM
Just in case anyone still wants the PC Cinema DNG importer for Premiere CS6, here it is...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/100356872/cinemadng_p4_cs5-5importer_060211.zip

BM4EVER
10-03-2012, 06:16 AM
Just in case anyone still wants the PC Cinema DNG importer for Premiere CS6, here it is...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/100356872/cinemadng_p4_cs5-5importer_060211.zip

Thanks a lot Ronell, please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area, but does this mean even if Adobe cease support for CDNG, people with PPCS6 will still be able to import it using this plugin? Thanks

Toni Villar
10-03-2012, 06:50 AM
Just in case anyone still wants the PC Cinema DNG importer for Premiere CS6, here it is...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/100356872/cinemadng_p4_cs5-5importer_060211.zip

As far as i can tell, that Cinema DNG importer is the one for CS5.5 which means that 12bit images are not supported.
It was discussed in this thread a while back: http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?992-*VIDEO*-How-to-import-Cinema-DNG-files-into-Adobe-Premiere-cs6

Andrew_HD
10-03-2012, 07:13 AM
This importer is only 8bit, so all what you can use it for is proxy, otherwise there is no point to shoot in 12bit RAW and use 8bit importer.

razz16mm
10-03-2012, 07:43 AM
I wonder why they don't just implement partial debayering like what REDCODE does.

It's really fast on 1/4 or 1/8th and below because it just reads in 1/4 of the resolution and debayers that. It's not pretty, but it would allow a real time workflow.

There is no such thing as a partial debayer. One can use fast crude algorithms that don't produce very high quality images or one can use slower deeper algorithms that produce the highest image quality. What red does is scale the post debayer image to lower resolution so you are moving fewer pixels around. Not many video systems can move 8Mp or 14Mp frames in real time and there is no need to move what you can't display anyway. Debayer and scaling to HD resolution a 3Mp raw frame is less processor intensive than reconstructing 20 out of 30 individual frames from an AVC codec stream on the fly. It is more about the disk I/O performance than processing power with current gen computers. You are moving more than 10 times the amount of data per second.
AE uses Adobe's standard raw processor plugin, the same one used in Photoshop and Lightroom.
None of the motion apps, Resolve included are using raw processing in very sophisticated ways at this point in time.
If you want to see what a truly sophisticated raw processor looks like, try this one.

http://rawtherapee.com/blog/features

jabloomf1230
10-03-2012, 05:13 PM
Thanks a lot Ronell, please excuse my lack of knowledge in this area, but does this mean even if Adobe cease support for CDNG, people with PPCS6 will still be able to import it using this plugin? Thanks

The Premiere Pro importer is for CS5.5 and is only 8 bit. It does work with PPro CS6. Adobe continues to use CDNG is Speedgrade, Photoshop and After Effects CS6, so they really haven't abandoned it.

Frank Glencairn
10-09-2012, 01:32 AM
Interesting read: http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2012/10/on-cs6-and-cinemadng.html