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View Full Version : SSD price war said to be on the way



randyman
04-26-2012, 10:06 PM
Im hoping this will wind up being good news for us all, though there are usually unintended consequences...

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120425PD202.html

Ivan
04-26-2012, 10:20 PM
Besides being rather illegal (Price fixing), I guess, yes...

Steve4505
04-26-2012, 10:42 PM
Im hoping this will wind up being good news for us all, though there are usually unintended consequences...

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120425PD202.html

I remember reading somewhere an expert believed SSDs would replace Hard Drives for most folk at some point. Maybe those times are getting closer.

Kenneth Fisher
04-26-2012, 10:59 PM
I remember reading somewhere an expert believed SSDs would replace Hard Drives for most folk at some point. Maybe those times are getting closer.

I think with the storage needs of many digital media professionals and those working with digital video, the point where an solid state drive replaces the mechanical hard drive is when 1 terabyte SSDs are cost effective.

podio
07-09-2012, 06:06 PM
BMDCC SSD vs TURBO RED MAG.

"according to Jarred Land of RED, the costs for their raw stock of SSDs has gone down dramatically. Therefore they will be lowering the prices across the board for REDMAGs. Since RED uses proprietary firmware and housings with their drives (unlike say Blackmagic with their Cinema Camera), the only choice EPIC and SCARLET owners have is to use RED-branded media" nofilmschool

I always wonder how wonderful this RED SSD should be to cost so much (Try 10 times a much). Even with the new "lower" price, the difference is noticeable.

_________ (NEW) Turbo REDMAG...REDMAG......SSD (Approved by BMD)
64Gb_________$ 725____________$ 950 _______$ 84...(Kingston 64GB SSDNow V+100)
128GB________$ 1,250___________$ 1,800______$ 193...(Kingston 128GB SSDNow V+100)
256GB________$ 2,450___________$ 3,200______$ 219...(Crucial)
512GB________$ 3,900_______________________$ 299...(Crucial 512GB M4)

nickjbedford
07-09-2012, 06:14 PM
It's a little bit mind boggling how much those SSDs are. When I was dreaming about the possibility of owning even a Scarlet, the cost everything else was just a massive turn off. I don't understand how you could rip off your customers so much. I understand that they're supposed to be super-reliable and everything, but man. Talk about RED Tax.

Gwangjuboy
07-09-2012, 07:30 PM
It's a little bit mind boggling how much those SSDs are. When I was dreaming about the possibility of owning even a Scarlet, the cost everything else was just a massive turn off. I don't understand how you could rip off your customers so much. I understand that they're supposed to be super-reliable and everything, but man. Talk about RED Tax.

To be fair to RED they make a point of being for professionals. Professionals with the weight of a big budget production are not going to save a few thousand dollars and tell the director oh sorry the SSD drive failed, can we shot the helicopter explosion scene again. My understanding was that RED SSD was faster than mass production ones and RED couldn't guarantee their reliability. And yeah RED is expensive, but they make everything in the US which if you know much about economics then you know its a rare and commendable thing.

podio
07-09-2012, 08:22 PM
Professionals with the weight of a big budget production are not going to save a few thousand dollars and tell the director oh sorry the SSD drive failed, can we shot the helicopter explosion scene again.
Agreed, and them the information is transfer to any Hard Drive and process the same way any data info would, no matter were the HDD was made.

My point is not to evaluate how good one is next to the other since we would have to do a durability test, but 10 times more expensive?

We have been using SSDs with the HyperDeck Studio and Shuttle and no problem with "regular" SSDs.

Wolf
07-09-2012, 11:20 PM
Red probably uses SLC (single level) instead of MLC (multi level cells) which is a bit more reliable and faster, but also more expensive.

Kevin Marshall
07-09-2012, 11:52 PM
It's a little bit mind boggling how much those SSDs are. When I was dreaming about the possibility of owning even a Scarlet, the cost everything else was just a massive turn off. I don't understand how you could rip off your customers so much. I understand that they're supposed to be super-reliable and everything, but man. Talk about RED Tax.

Rip-off is a pretty strong term. Check price/GB on SxS or P2

SxS 64GB $1395.95: 64GB SxS Memory Card PRO (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825265-REG/Sony_SBP64A_SBP_64A_64GB_SxS_PRO.html)
P2 64GB $629: AJ-P2E064XG 64GB E-Series P2 Card (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/618135-REG/Panasonic_AJ_P2E064XG_AJ_P2E064XG_64GB_E_Series_P2 .html)

The SxS is way more expensive than, and the P2 is a little cheaper than Red's media - and the Red media is much faster, to boot! Obviously record times are higher with SxS and P2 cameras, but it's always going to be more expensive to shoot higher res, higher bit depth, and otherwise more data-hungry footage.

A lot of money goes into R&D for these things. Red tried off-the-shelf media, which didn't sustain the write speeds they wanted, or have durable enough connectors for them. So they went down the path of making their own - writing their own firmware for the drives, having low-yield on hardware from tighter tolerances, designing their own connector, adding a housing...hell, I could throw a Red SSD at a brick wall, and I doubt it'd have much more than a scratch (though I don't think any owners I work with would really approve of that test). That's just how solid they feel. Add in low economy of scale - they're selling to ten thousand or so camera owners, not millions of computer owners - and it doesn't seem too ridiculous after all.

Yes, media for the BMC will be cheaper, because they use off-the-shelf SSDs. That's just a different choice that Blackmagic made. There's some good to it, and some not-necessarily-good to it.

nickjbedford
07-10-2012, 12:24 AM
Rip-off is a pretty strong term. Check price/GB on SxS or P2

SxS 64GB $1395.95: 64GB SxS Memory Card PRO (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825265-REG/Sony_SBP64A_SBP_64A_64GB_SxS_PRO.html)
P2 64GB $629: AJ-P2E064XG 64GB E-Series P2 Card (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/618135-REG/Panasonic_AJ_P2E064XG_AJ_P2E064XG_64GB_E_Series_P2 .html)

Yes, media for the BMC will be cheaper, because they use off-the-shelf SSDs. That's just a different choice that Blackmagic made. There's some good to it, and some not-necessarily-good to it.

Thanks for enlightening me :) All good. It's easy to throw comparisons around before knowing too much about the tech.

yoclay
07-10-2012, 01:43 AM
All of this might be true, but on the previous generation, the RED ONE, people still had a choice. They could record to regular Hard Drives if they so chose. Being forced into a proprietary situation is one of the reasons I have avoided almost of the cameras in question. I would have bought a Scarlet this year, if it hadn't been for this very question. I would have needed about $8000 more in RED storage and battery requirements to meet the needs on some of my shoots. Totally impossible.

JIKIJI
07-10-2012, 05:23 AM
SSD (Approved by BMD)
64Gb_________$ 84...(Kingston 64GB SSDNow V+100)
128GB________$ 193...(Kingston 128GB SSDNow V+100)
256GB________$ 219...(Crucial)
512GB________$ 299...(Crucial 512GB M4)

Are those SSD's really approved for the BMC?

John Brawley
07-10-2012, 06:11 AM
All of this might be true, but on the previous generation, the RED ONE, people still had a choice. They could record to regular Hard Drives if they so chose.

No. I don't think this is true.

You always had to use RED RAID hard drives, which, like the the SSD's were very expensive for the Red QA assurance and rehousing.

Maybe you're thinking of the CF cards ?

jb

Kevin Marshall
07-10-2012, 12:43 PM
Yeah, John's right. You could never use off-the-shelf drives. You could use the $900 320GB (and then later 640GB for the same price) Red Drive, which was two 2.5" drives RAIDed in an enclosure, with a lemo out. There was also the several-thousand-dollar 128GB Red Flash, which was the same, but with SSDs.

CF cards were also the same story (8 and later 16GB from Red), with the only exception being certain Lexar cards, which were limited to the highest compression ratio (RedCode 28 at the time). 16GB was/is $300 - forget how much the 8GB was.